General Discussion

[Charlie_c67]

Black and Blue?

[Rheged]

Possibly light and dark blue.??

[Sport21ing]

Invasions stripes could also be fine  - imagine Tigercats, Bearcats, Corsairs, Twin Mustangs and P-51H's with them 

In Normandy they were black and white, Suez aircraft had black and yellow (I think).
So what colours would have been used in Downfall?

TomZ

Maybe the same black and white as the D-Day ones

@comrade harps have its "candy stripes" with orenge/yellow/orange

And in one of my head timelines, they could have the "UN Honour Flag"-style of stripes, but this might be an wrong choice for an high stressed and high altert navy crew (seen too much red)

[Old Wombat]

Invasion stripes discussion started way back here (V) 11 days ago;

I was being lazy.
Mistel, as we all know is German for Mistletoe - the smaller aircraft being seen as a parasite on the larger.
A direct translation into Japanese gives Yadorigi.
But Rheged's and Womby's suggestions are better.

OK, onto more serious business.
Was any form of recognition marking proposed for Operation Downfall aircraft?  Something along the lines of the stripes applied for Overlord and Musketeer maybe?
If there was, or if we can agree on something, should we all endeavour to use them?
It might be nice to have some consistency across all the aircraft builds.
I'm not suggesting it is compulsory - last thing i'd do - just that IRL they probably would have had something and it could look good if we all used the same pattern/design/stripe/spots/tartan/colour.

https://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php?topic=54710.15

[McColm]

The Avro Lancasters selected for the Tiger Force had extra lumps and bumps, one of them could have been an ACI (Airborne  Control and Interception) or at least a flying radar station preventing the bombers from collision whilst in formation with the front and rear gun turrets removed. The bulge from the B.II weapons bay would mean that the radar would have been relocated to the roof, probably the upper gun turret.

[jcf]

The British Pacific fleet usually operated with the USN using US
fast carrier tactics. By the late autumn of 1945 their primary fit
of aircraft would have been in overall Gloss Sea Blue with white
codes, just like the USN aircraft, and using the barred roundel.
This would be all the identification required as it was already what
was being used, no need for stripes on the Navy side. Also the
operational arena for the carrier forces was east of 135 East,
Army Air Force had everything west of 135 East. The Air Force
would be directly supporting the landings of Southern Kyushu,
naval air forces would be primarily flying ground attack and
harassment missions against Northern Kyushu and Southern
Honshu, the role being to find and takeout any airbases, roads,
railways etc. that would be used to support the IJA forces fighting
on Kyushu. The kamikaze bases on Kyushu were a target, as
they would be close to the beaches and have short flight-times,
their targets were the landing support ships and the landing craft,
not heavily armoured warships.
F6F nightfighters, carrier based Avenger and land based Boeing PB-1W
AEW aircraft would also have taken part in the Naval campaign.

[buzzbomb]

The Avro Lancasters selected for the Tiger Force had extra lumps and bumps, one of them could have been an ACI (Airborne  Control and Interception) or at least a flying radar station preventing the bombers from collision whilst in formation with the front and rear gun turrets removed. The bulge from the B.II weapons bay would mean that the radar would have been relocated to the roof, probably the upper gun turret.

something like this maybe

[jcf]

The saddle fuel tank concept was soon abandoned as it had somewhat deleterious effects, to put it mildly, on performance and handling which is why aerial refueling using Liberators was going to be used. The refueling scheme also went by the wayside after Okinawa was captured and there was plenty of room for airfields for Tiger Force and the Australian First Tactical Air Force which was going to be the tactical component of the Commonwealth air forces. Originally Tiger Force was going to be based in the Philippines, thus the need for refueling.

[jcf]

In regards to Okinawa, capturing the island made things simpler in regards to airpower i.e.
Tiger Force and TAF as mentioned, and as a forward preparation area for the invasion, but it
also had the potential of being a disaster. The 1945 Pacific Typhoon season was longer than
was typical and on October 9 Okinawa received a direct hit from Typhoon Louise.

Typhoon Louise 9 October 1945

On 9 October, when the storm passed over the island, winds of 80 knots (92 miles per hour) and 30-35 foot waves battered the ships and craft in the bay and tore into the quonset huts and buildings ashore. A total of 12 ships and craft were sunk, 222 grounded, and 32 severely damaged. Personnel casualties were 36 killed, 47 missing, and 100 seriously injured. Almost all the food, medical supplies and other stores were destroyed, over 80% of all housing and buildings knocked down, and all the military installations on the island were temporarily out of action. Over 60 planes were damaged as well, though most were repairable. Although new supplies had been brought to the island by this time, and emergency mess halls and sleeping quarters built for all hands, the scale of the damage was still very large. If the war had not ended on 2 September, this damage, especially the grounding and damage to 107 amphibious craft (including the wrecking of four tank landing ships, two medium landing -ships, a gunboat, and two infantry landing craft) would likely have seriously impacted the planned invasion of Japan (Operation Olympic).

Now imagine the typhoon hitting while full buildup for a November 1 invasion was underway.

Truly Kamikaze redux.
👺🌊💨

[McColm]

Depending on the source of information I read somewhere that it was to be the largest amphibious assault staged,  parachuting and DUKWs. Or a General Aircraft Hamilcar kitbash with a DUKWs towed as a glider. Probably nose-heavy due to the DUKW's engine so ballast would have been needed at the rear.
Hamilcars were used on D-Day and during 'Operation Market Garden ', I have more than enough ideas of my own to be getting on with.

[Charlie_c67]

The Avro Lancasters selected for the Tiger Force had extra lumps and bumps, one of them could have been an ACI (Airborne  Control and Interception) or at least a flying radar station preventing the bombers from collision whilst in formation with the front and rear gun turrets removed. The bulge from the B.II weapons bay would mean that the radar would have been relocated to the roof, probably the upper gun turret.

something like this maybe

That looks cool. Throwback to the Italian style of bombers!

[jcf]

This paper from the US Naval Heritage and History Command is very good:
Operations Downfall and Ketsugo, November 1945

[jcf]

Depending on the source of information I read somewhere that it was to be the largest amphibious assault staged,  parachuting and DUKWs. Or a General Aircraft Hamilcar kitbash with a DUKWs towed as a glider. Probably nose-heavy due to the DUKW's engine so ballast would have been needed at the rear.
Hamilcars were used on D-Day and during 'Operation Market Garden ', I have more than enough ideas of my own to be getting on with.

Parachuting airborne troops, and gliders, were not part of either phase of Downfall and if they had, rather stupidly, been used they would have been slaughtered. The US 101st Airborne was part of the reserve force to be deployed to Kyushu on X+35 days but only in the ground infantry role. There was simply no strategic, or tactical, reason to use airborne troops as airborne troops.

[Old Wombat]

I've been digging through the Wombat Stash^TM & have come up with four potential builds for this GB ... Well, two pairs of builds.

Pair 1:  Italeri D-Day Ambulance Jeep + AFV Club LVT-4 "Water Buffalo" (+ figures (tbd))

Pair 2: AFV Club Churchill Mk.VII + Trumpeter WW2 US Navy (Not likely!) LCM 3 Landing Craft (+ figures (tbd))

The tidying of the Modelling Room is well underway, so it should be ready in time.

All I have to do, now, is decide which pair I want to build ... Or whether I should build a ship. 

[Charlie_c67]

Are alternate countries allowed as well or just the known allies?