Gondor's Grumblings

[NARSES2]

Brave steps Alastair, good for you 

I can see an interesting chat at Telford

[kitbasher]

Ooh, nice!

[Nick]

Shiny new toys!   

[kerick]

Let us know how the software learning curve goes. I would like to be able to design a part and get a guy in my club to print it. I pretty sure I won't have the demand to warrant my own printer.

Said club guy could set up a side hustle for doing that sort of commission work... depending on his skill set, he could even have another side hustle of designing said parts - or teaching folk to design their own. Just a couple of stray thoughts.

He's pretty good at it. He prints his own track links for his German tank projects.

[frank2056]

Alastair - the 16K is a great printer! The current firmware versions should fix an issue where the plate was being pushed too hard against the screen, which caused both screen degradation and very thick base layers. The Elegoo subreddit is very helpul, in particular, read the comments by https://old.reddit.com/user/DarrenRoskow

Some of his suggestions are superseded by the new firmware, but a manual adjustment and other issues are still valid.

Also - PPE (gloves, eye protection) are mandatory. You do not want liquid resin in your eyes and you don't want to develop skin sensitivities due to the resin.  You also want good ventilation and keep the printer away from sunlight. I keep the printer in a grow tent and vent it out the window when I'm printing.

You'll also need a LOT of isopropyl or denatured alcohol ( methylated spirits) for washing. Avoid "water washable" resins; they're crap. You'll also need a lot of paper towels (or paper shop towels)

Get and use UVTools It will find errors in your file and help improve the printability of your files.

If you get a failed print, it's important to both remove the debris from the build plate (and make sure it's completely removed) and remove the debris from the tank; a tank clean is usually enough, but filtering the resin back into the bottle then back into the tank is good extra insurance. You want to inspect the FEP at the bottom of the tank to make sure there are no punctures. Even a small resin leak is bad, because it can damage the screen or lead to a larger leak.

[Gondor]

UVtools is installed on my pc, along with chitubox and SateLite by ELEGOO. Just looking at UVtools makes me realise how much I have to learn just to print successfully, let alone draw anything myself to print.

[Rick Lowe]

Also - PPE (gloves, eye protection) are mandatory. You do not want liquid resin in your eyes and you don't want to develop skin sensitivities due to the resin.  You also want good ventilation and keep the printer away from sunlight. I keep the printer in a grow tent and vent it out the window when I'm printing.

This! There's a guy I know whose friend didn't use the gear and he's now allergic to resin, to the point he's had to give up his casting/printing business.

And yeah, keeping the tank away from windows is a really good idea - a stray beam of light can set your tank of expensive resin - and ruin your day.

[Gondor]

And yeah, keeping the tank away from windows is a really good idea - a stray beam of light can set your tank of expensive resin - and ruin your day.

I am already thinking about that. A little bit limited for space though and the unit is deep as it needs room for the lid to be opened. I have just remembered that I have a half wardrobe, half draw unit that I was thinking about using. Feed power through the back and store the resin in there as well due to it having doors too.

[Gondor]

An idea I had a while back was to put the 2D printer in a half wardrobe I have in the bedroom. So after a bit of clearing out and the removal of the rail for hangers, I have found that the printer will indeed fit.



It will be on the left side, once I find somewhere to store what's there. A small set of shelves for storage of resins and other items, and I should be good to go. Oh yes, power, I need to get an extension lead, but that is easy enough to do.

[frank2056]

You willget resin spills - just a fact of life with resin printers. A drop here, a big spill there, and they can be difficult to treat, especially in fabrics. I would suggest getting a vinyl floor protector for your flooring.

A silicone mat or tray at least as big as the build plate (or bigger) to hold the build plate while you remove it from the machine is really helpful. You can rest the build plate in the tray and remove the parts. Cleaning the tray is simple - use a UV light (or the Sun) to cure the waste resin/drips and just flex the tray to pop them off. I have this from Amazon (there should be an equivalent in the UK Amazon or similar shop.

[Gondor]

Like most of my projects, they grow arms and legs. I am now looking at getting a replacement wardrobe/drawer unit, as the floor of the wardrobe part is bowed. That is, unless I can find a way to either remove or reduce the bow. There is not much clearance below the shelf, as it is the space for the top drawer. I am thinking of trying to use countersunk bolts from the top, with a strip of metal underneath.
 I have just realised that I should use angle iron, with wood inside the angle that I can screw countersunk screws into, rather than using nuts and bolts, although that would work, and I may use that. The top drawer will be sacrificed, with the front of the drawer fixed to the middle drawer front, so there is no gap. I can then use whatever thickness of angled metal I want, and if I can employ both drawers, I could also use the drawer for storage of resins and the like if I run out of space next to the printer.
 On further reflection, and probably the one I am probably going to go with is, buy some MDF to fit inside the unit and to provide a new floor. I have 5cm of height to play with, so plenty of space. Set into the underside of the MDF two or three metal strips and then bolt through the whole lot. I have 2.5cm clearance on the underside of the existing shelf for nuts and washers, or more metal strip, so I think it may work. I am also thinking of looking at drip trays used under cars or lorries to sit on the shelf, and then the printer can sit in that to take care of spills to the sides of the printer.
Now, if I hadn't been writing all this out, I wouldn't have arrived at the solution that I have.
 
Gondor

[NARSES2]

Now, if I hadn't been writing all this out, I wouldn't have arrived at the solution that I have.
 
Gondor

I know exactly what you mean by that.

[scautomoton]

If at all possible I would recommend putting all of the 3d printing equipment in a utility room or garage (even a dry shed if you have one). Resin does smell, but not as bad as IPA. Also, the printer is surprisingly noisy. Plus you'll need to store both your resin supply, your several containers of new IPA, your first wash container etc etc. Also as mentioned above, there will be spillages, drips etc. Mine is all in the utility room on an old kitchen worktop which needs scraping and cleaning semi-regularly just because you end up with resin residue all over the place through normal handling.

Frank has listed many of the mandatory things (gloves, no direct sunlight, ventilation), but permit me to also list what I consider the bare minimum plus also some sound advice:

Stuff
- gloves. I cannot stress this enough. Resin is toxic as hell and if you have any on your skin in sunlight you'll soon know about it. Buy several boxes of latex/nitrile, you will go through them at a significant rate. I have about 20 on the shelf.
- buy IPA in bulk, its considerably cheaper this way. Just go on ebay and buy 20L. You'll receive a box with 4x 5L containers. Probably best not to store this inside the main house.
- similarly, buy decent, high strength kitchen roll in bulk, you will also go through it at an alarming rate. Remember to leave used roll in sunlight/daylight to cure the resin before putting it in the bin.
- buy a pickling tub like this one. This will be your first stage wash to get the bulk of the wet resin off before the final wash in your nice shiny wash station. Throw the pieces in, lift the cage up and down several times. Job jobbed.
--- You will be replacing the IPA in the first wash after it becomes so cloudy that you start making the final wash really dirty and/or your prints still have residue or shiny spots on when you let them dry before curing. You will need to keep the old IPA containers to pour the used stuff into.
--- the final wash IPA then goes into the first wash container, and the final wash gets fresh IPA
--- the container with the used IPA needs (ideally) cleaning so it can be reused (more on this later)
- you need a worktop of a decent size where you can lay multiple layers of kitchen roll (the good stuff thats not 100% paper) and then scrape/prise the pieces off of the build plate. The plate will be dripping with resin even if you leave it to drip-dry for several hours after printing (I refer you to the comments regarding mess). Make sure the plate face is clean before fitting it back.
- you will need a decent A3/A4 sized area for pieces to dry after they come out of the wash. Ideally out of sunlight, but provided the parts are fully clean its not a problem if they get sun. Its a free contribution to the curing.
- more workspace to clean up your scraper, plus a bin handy for failed prints and resin infused kitchen roll

Printing Practice
- recycling IPA; this is a huge topic on its own, but suffice to say, IPA, whilst cheap, will still get expensive if you don't clean and reuse. There are a few techniques detailed online, but in summary:
--- the container with the old stuff can go outside in the sunlight for a few days where the UV cures the resin, which then sinks to the bottom of the container. You then siphon the clean stuff at the top for re-use as the first wash (sometimes it can become clean enough to use as final wash...)
--- sometimes the above just ends up a white cloudy mess, or if the IPA is too contaminated, a big block of sludge. If the former you need to filter, if the latter you need to cut it out of the container onto a tray or something and let it cure fully before putting it in the bin
--- for filtering you can build a cheap single stage filter using two buckets and a ceramic water filter. This is relatively easy to find info for online
--- alternatively, some people use water distillers with the temp turned right down to properly clean their IPA, then you let the left-over sludge cure in the sun before throwing it. I've not tried this route yet, but am thinking about trialling it at some point. Outside. Away from things that can burn easily.
- let your pieces fully dry before putting them in the Cure station so you can ensure thay are fully clean, with no slimy residue or undesired build artefacts
- for failed prints the 16K has an "LCD Exposure" function that lights up the whole screen, This creates a thin sheet of cured resin which captures any broken or failed bits stuck to the FEP. Its the easiest, least risky way of cleaning a failed print. You do not want to damage the FEP if its full of resin. Ask how I know.....
- Always use the pre-heating function when turning the printer on from cold (you have to manually select it annoyingly), let it get up to temperature for an hour or so otherwise the chances of failures is quite a bit higher.
- If you leave the printer unused for any length of time more than a couple of days then you will need to give the resin a bit of a stir before printing since it starts to separate. Use the plastic spatula provided and gently drag it back and forth. Be careful not to slosh the resin over the sides of the vat
- inevitably you will find over time that all the equipment starts to get sticky/tacky (mainly from gloves and the dirty IPA). Be prepared to clean stuff regularly. I have a small IPA spray that I use for just this purpose

Most Importantly
- finally, download cones of calibration (do this first before anything else) and dial in your settings, but for reference, here are what I use in my 16K:
--- Elegoo Standard V2 resin - 0.035mm layers - 28s base exposure, 1s wait (unimportant), 5 layers, 5 layer linear transition, 1.7s normal exposure, normal wait before printing 1.7s
--- Elegoo ABS-Like V3+ resin -  0.035mm layers - 29s base, 5 layers, 5 layer linear transition, 1.9s normal exposure, wait before printing 1.7s
--- regarding these; the P.8 bits I sent you are Standard resin. Good for detail, can be brittle, cleans up well. The ABS-Like stuff is equally good for detail, less brittle (quite a bit less actually) but contaminates IPA more readily when cleaning up so higher turnover of IPA.

When you start designing things and are ready to start printing feel free to ask advice on best practice. Careful parts design can help mitigate a multitude of printing artifacts like striations and banding for instance.

[Gondor]

Thank you very much for all that info Stuart. Unfortunately, I live in an upstairs flat, so I have to use what space I have. I have bought a 5L container of IPA and will get another soon, once I get more sorted out as to what is going where, even if it is for storage until it gets used.

[Gondor]

Yet another weekend, and one more closer to Telford, which I am looking forward to immensely. Catching up with familiar faces and making new friends as well. Way too much to do, not immediately related to modelling. In other words, getting the 3D set up sorted out. Structural strengthening of the half wardrobe really gets going this weekend. I intend to buy some brackets to help strengthen the joint between the shelf and the sides of the wardrobe, and maybe a part or two for the ventilation system. I have a load of ducting and an in-line fan to help remove the fumes out through a window. I have shelving to pick up, and a couple of old CD storage drawers to get rid of as well. The new Airfix Mosquito should be here tomorrow, three of them. One for each of the box options. The target winch will be handy for a few other aircraft types; the Tempest comes to mind for a real-world build and as a what-if build too, if the F.2 or F.6 is used.
With all the DIY going on, I get to play with a couple of boys' toys I have unused so far. A jigsaw and a router. The jigsaw to cut shelves to size, and the router to cut channels in the MDF, I have for strengthening plates to be fitted to the 3D cupboard.
progress with getting a plumber to fit the shower is ongoing. I started an account with a find a tradsman site and have an interested person who I will give the job to if we can agree on a mutual date for the work.