BAC TFR-3

[Archibald]

British lightweight fighter of the 60's.

On 16, January 1968 Great Britain cancelled is order for the F-111K. Its replacement was on the way at the time : the UKVG was to become the MRCA, and then the Tornado. But this was a strike fighter made in european cooperation. At the time, British aircraft industry only had one national combat aircraft on the way, the Harrier.
The RAF and RN deseperatly needed a new interceptor to replace their Lightnings and Sea Vixens. The plane was to be the american F-4 Phantom, with RR Speys engines. After a detailed analisis of this project, BAC warned the British Governement : the american fighter could not cope with the much larger speys whithout a heavy rebuilt of his air intakes. This would add weight and drag, changing the Phantom into a shadow of itself -for a high cost- .
On the same week, BAC learned more about the Mirage F1, Viggen and Mig-23 fighters, which had flew the year before. The firm decided to make a carefully study of these three, and its conclusions were very interesting.

BAC study concluded that "the fighter of the 70's will be  a lightweight plane, built around a highly powerful turbofan engine of 22000 Ibs thrust. The lighweight and high thrust will gave this plane a big agility in dogfight, to avoid problems encountered by the american phantoms in vietnam".

The study also concluded that BAC (and Great Britain) was perfectly able to make a fighter of this kind, making a scale down TSR-2 around the Spey engine; this fighter could have a big success on the export market, and even replace both Lightnings and Sea Vixens. The study also mentionned the fact that the USA had no fighters of this class, and were studying two programs. First was a F5A derivative for export, the F5E Tiger II; this was a stopgap at short term. A long term program was also on the way. This was the LFW, which gave birth to the F16 in 1974. But time was flying, because France and Sweden have their Viggen and F1 on this market. The study predicted that the Viggen will be difficult to sell on export markets because of Sweden neutral position. The F1 had not this problem, but was underpowered (the Atar was obsolete). Finnally, this plane could counter the MIG-23, as this airplane had a weight and agility penalty in the form of his VG wing. It was Great britain last chance to come back on the fighter export market...

BAC finally had the go ahead of the governement on 17 february 1968. As money was needed, a defence white paper was made, and the Jaguar program was scraped. France was angry, but not Dassault, which had merge with Breguet in 1967 and saw the Jaguar as a threat for the F1. So the countries were happy to scrap the Jaguar program, which was in deep trouble at the time.

Starting from the TSR-2 meant that money was save; the plane was much scaled down, and had a single Spey engine of 10500kgp of thrust. Twin or single seat versions were made. 15meters long, 10.5 span, 8.5 tons empty 14 tons at take off, 1300km range on interception.  A naval version was to replace the Sea Vixen, and could also be sold to the Essex carriers buyers worlwide.

The plane flew in spring 1971with Beamont at the controls, and rapidly prove to be a fantastic plane. It had much better handling than the Jaguar, and was realy similar to the TSR-2 on this way. It totally outran the Mirage F1,and turned circles around Mig-23 and Phantoms. Only the Viggen had similar performances...

It entered service in 1973 on RN and RAF, and quickly started to have big exports orders, as it was really much powerful than the F1, and much less expensive than the Phantom. First airplanes had the AWG-10 and Sparrow, but a version with Foxhunter and Skyflash quickly entered service. The plane was named BAC TFR-3 Phœnix, but TFR-3 was quickly dropped.

The Phœnix was a powerful interceptor; it could easily received more powerful radars and mssiles. It had a medium size delta  wing with a conventional tail, like the TSR-2. There was four hardpoints under the wings, and two under the belly. As in the Lightnings, two others were mounted on the side of air intakes.
On the interceptor role, the plane was very well armed :
-   Two skyflash recessed under the belly
-   Two AIM-9 on the air intakes racks.
-   Two drop tanks under the wings.
-   Two AIM-9 on the external underwing hardpoints.
One 30mm Aden gun was mounted below the cockpit on the left side.
Alternate armament was a drop tank under the belly, two AIM-9 on the air intakes and four skyflash under the wings.
Wing area was 50m2 which gave a low wing loading and a high agility. All Lightnings were withdrawn in 1978; the Phœnix was perfectly able to escort the Tornado. And Great Britain still had a good aircraft industry... And Hawker also received a go ahead to develop his P-1216 VTOL mach1.8 fighter, which replace the Harriers worlwide in the 90's...

Buid a lightweight fighter (15tons MTOW) around a big turbofan with 22000Ibs of thrust. This fighter have a very good thrust-to-weight ratio which means very good agility in dogfight against Migs. More, as this fighter is light, it is cheap, and this become a world beater...this is exactly what the F-16 is... but not until 1977-80.

[K5054NZ]

I want to see a picture of this one! Archibald, what a fantastic backstory! I hope you're very proud of this creation!

[Guest_archibald_Whatif-curious]

Merci...very nice...
You ask me about a model.. hem!!! I'm better to write backstories than making models. But I really would like to have the TSR-2 kit by Airfix (is it available in france or per mail ?)
I think spey was a good engine powerful, turbofan, reliable. And there was so much projects around it (F100S, F4K, Mirage IVK, Mirage IIIK, Tsiklon etc.). So it seems logical that Great Britain built a single engine, cheap, lighweight fighter around it.
If you think on this way, then the next idea is : wow, a lightweight fighter like this looks like Viggen, Mig-23, Mirage F1 or even F16.
Next step : to save money in development, why not use the TSR-2 airframe? it was very good, and fit nicely to  a fighter (contrary to the swing wing design of the F-111, too heavy for a fighter). Of course, you must "scale down" the TSR-2   (one spey Vs 2 Olympus...) to light it. Cut the dimensions and range (this is not a medium bomber anymore) and you obtain a good fighter, roughly a Viggen equivalent (but with a tail and swept wings).
You know I red Tony Butler books and I think its a pity Great Britain didn't make fighters after the TSR-2 disaster. The country was perfectly able to do it. Look at France and Sweden, or even Italy!! Look at the engines GB made (Spey, Olympus..)... a third european aircraft maker would have been nice...

If you are interested by backstories, I wrote a big pile of it on my website (particularly about carriers...  )
I put the adress many time on my posts here

[PolluxDeltaSeven]

Hum... Very interresting!! I think I will draw a TFR-3 very soon!! Based on my TSR-2 drawing, it could be easy and very interresting!!

And well, the idea is very very excellent!! I never heard about something like that on UK forums!!

[Zen]

Blackburn P145
Private venture light ground attack aircraft, 1967-71. Became by '69 a RN focused low level interceptor.
extensive use of LE and TE blown surfaces for good STOL and low approach speeds.

Accent on manouverability in the mach0.5 to 1.2 range, guidance by P139 AEW aircraft, simple weapons system, with visual target acquisition.
Space in nose for a radar or other package.

Wingtip Taildog (SRAAM), two 30mm ADEN

Delivery of 4,000lb or bombs to a target over 200nm radius.

One reheated Spey 5R for 12,000lb/21,000lb or advanced RB.199 for 14,130lb/24,700lb.

Span 28.5ft
Length 51ft
Wing Area 272sqft
All-up wieght 23,125lb
Speed - Mach 1.1 at sea level, mach 1.8 at 30,000ft.

[Archibald]

Thank you PD7!! I think its because British fanas focuse only on the TSR-2. I agree with them, it was clearly a fantastic aircraft. The trouble with it : just look at the F111. Only 576 built, and only one foreign customer (australia). Its because it was aheavy, highly specialised attack plane. It was very expensive...

What most countries wanted was a lighter, multirole fighter (like the F1, Mig 23, Viggen or even Phantom  Tiger II. And of course, F16...)
To make a good, powerful multirole fighter in the 60's/70's what you need is a big turbofan with 20 000 Ibs of thrust. (M53, RM8B, TF-30, F100, or... RR Spey). So I really think that GB could have made a good multirole fighter around the Spey...
Now, what about the airframe? I think about a little TSR-2 (a pocket TSR-2   ). Its because the TSR-2 was very good, had a tail+delta wing  (this is also  good for a fighter). BAC could save much money by using TSR-2 stuff for this fighter.
Why TFR-3 ? Tactical Fighter Recon 3 (TSR-1 was the Canberra). I think TSR-2 was a bureaucratic name, so I prefer Phoenix.
BAC TSR-3 Phoenix...  ^_^

I complete and rewrote my backstory for this airplane this morning. Hope you enjoy it!!
And I like very much your profile idea. Make it and let us enjoy it!!!

[Archibald]

So, PD7 here 's my updated backstory for the TFR-3 (hugh... the Phoenix)

British lightweight fighter of the 60's : the BAC TFR-3. Or : how Great Britain manage to save its aircraft industry.

In march 1963, Great britain and his favourite program, the TSR-2 were in deep trouble. The TSR-2 was too expensive and too specialised for the country, as a consequence, its export prospects were bad. Then, many events occured  this year, which will change Great Britain aircraft industry forever. First was the flight of the Bucanneer S2 with spey engines, which drastically improved performances, and the RAF sudden interest for it. Then, were the first exports contracts of the multirole F-4 Phantom. Last but not least, australia refuse to buy the TSR-2 and choose the F-111 instead.
Great Britain understood that the TSR-2 was in trouble. The P1154 VTOL fighter also ran into delays and costs overruns. British governement learn at the time Mirage F2, Viggen development. They also carefully watched Phantoms development. On may 1963, the governement suddenly understood what was wrong with the TSR-2 : the future of combat airplanes was a multirole, medium size fighter-bomber like the future Viggen, Mirage F2 or Phantoms  , not big medium-range bomber like the TSR-2 or F-111. The former was too expensive for both the RAF and export market...
So,a governement member, John Duff explain that a new  program was to be launched, using as much as TSR-2 as it can. This would be a single engine, lightweight, multirole fighter to compet with the phantom (it was to be more advanced in its electronics, structure and engines). When this idea was examined farther, it was discovered that such fighter could replace both Sea Vixens and Lightnings at a fraction of the cost of the P1154, TSR-2 or even the buying of Phantoms in the USA. Its idea was interesting, but not manage to convince everyone, starting from the RAF which nedded to replace his Camberra. The service reluctantly chose Bucanneers instead of the TSR-2. The governement agree to stop the two programs. Fortunately, they were far from the prototype stage...
So the TSR-2 and P1154 were cancelled whithout regrets, the 1154 being replaced by an improve 1127, to become the Harrier.  Now, the British governement had to find new airplane to replace the TSR-2. Considering what John Duff had suggested, three ways were now examinated:
-   buying F111.
-   buying phantom multirole fighters
-   making a scaled-down TSR-2 derivative as a multirole fighter, with one powerful turbofan, to compet with the Phantom on exports markets.

So, the F111 was examined, and  an order for 50 of them was placed. The F111K program ran between the end of 1963 and january 1968. In febraury 1966, the CVA-01 program was save with the help of  France, which proposed a join program. The country needed a third, bigger carrier to complete his busy Foch and Clemenceau, deeply involved in Mururoa nuclear testing at the time. This was accepted, and the Royal Navy was alleviate of a financial burden. But the discussions on a join naval interceptor base on the Br112 or the new Mirage F1 failed because of Dassault stubborn attitude (as usual in european cooperations) , leaving the FAA whithout Sea Vixen replacement.  

At the time, the multirole combat aircraft was not dead: as  the RAF and RN deseperatly needed a new interceptor to replace their Lightnings and Sea Vixens, a comparative study was  made between a F-4 Phantom, still with RR Speys engines and a brand new British multirole fighter with the same engine. After a detailed analisis of the phantom  project, BAC warned the British Governement that the american fighter could not cope with the much larger speys whithout a heavy rebuilt of his air intakes. This would add weight and drag, changing the Phantom into a shadow of itself -for a high cost- .
The single RR-Spey fighter was sustained by the governement at a low rate funding. It  prove much more interesting than the spey Phantom. It had apparently a bigger export potential than the TSR-2. The plane was name TFR-3. When the Spey phantom proved bad, governement started augmented his funding for the TFR-3, whithout giving a go-ahead  -Whitehall needed time, and was still dreaming of F111 in RAF colours-.
But, starting in 1966, the F-111 entered into a period of teething  problems : it was overweight, and more, wings boxes started to break, leading to a series of deadly crashes. After two years like this, and a price which had doubled at the time, on   16th , January 1968 Great Britain cancelled is order for the F-111K.
Governement reflexion about multirole fighters was right...but it admitted that it still needed a long range attack plane, albeit much cheaper than the TSR-2 and F-111.So, their  replacement was on the way at the time : the UKVG was to become the MRCA, and then the Tornado. But this was a strike fighter made in european cooperation.

The weeks which followed the F-111 order cancellation were crucials. At the end of January, 1968 BAC learned more about the Mirage F1, Viggen and Mig-23 fighters, which had flew the year before.
The governement augmented fundings for  the TFR-3 pogram , and decided to ask the BAC  if the concept was right. When hearing of the news, the firm make a carefully study of the MIG-23, Viggen and Mirage F1, and its conclusions were very interesting. The governement intuition was perfectly right!
The BAC study concluded that "the fighter of the 70's will be  a lightweight plane, built around a highly powerful turbofan engine of 22000 Ibs thrust. The lighweight and high thrust will gave this plane a big agility in dogfight, to avoid problems encountered by the american phantoms in vietnam".
The study also concluded that BAC (and Great Britain) was perfectly able to make a fighter of this kind, making a scale down TSR-2 around the Spey engine; this fighter could have a big success on the export market, and even replace both Lightnings and Sea Vixens. The study also mentionned the fact that the USA had no fighters of this class, and were studying two programs. First was a F5A derivative for export, the F5E Tiger II; this was a stopgap at short term. A long term program was also on the way. This was the LFW, which gave birth to the F16 in 1974. But time was flying, because France and Sweden have their Viggen and F1 on this market.
The study predicted that the Viggen will be difficult to sell on export markets because of Sweden neutral position. The F1 had not this problem, but was underpowered (the Atar was obsolete). Finnally, this plane could counter the MIG-23, as this airplane had a weight and agility penalty in the form of his VG wing. It was Great britain last chance to come back on the fighter export market...
On 21th january 1968, a defence white paper is published. The British governement, once again, change is plans. The decision is clearly in favor of the Brtish aircraft industry. The F-111, Spey-powered Phantom and Jaguar program are stopped. Instead of that, the British governement decide

-   To adopt the Harrier as light attack aircraft (it replace the Jaguar)
-   To replace the F-111 by the UKVG (an agrement with Germany and Italy on this program is on the way)
-   To make a spey powered, British  lightweight interceptor for both the RN and RAF.
-   To launch a light trainer to replace the cancelled Jaguar.
-   
These four aircrafts (Tornado, Harrier, Phœnix and Hawk) are not in competition. The Hawk is a modest program, the Harrier is proved and ready to enter service, and the Tornado program is split between three countries. So, the Phœnix is the most dificult to make. But once again, this is a join program between the RN and RAF. And the aircraft is light,have only one engine, elements are borrowed from the Tornado program to reduce cost. And the export potential is much bigger than the Tornado. The defence version of this attack plane is also scrapped; to the relief of the RAF : the tornado is a heavy, VG , attack plane, not really a good fighter. The Foxhunter and Skyflash missiles are transfered to the Phœnix program. The Jaguar prototype is used as a testbed for the Phœnix.

Of course, France and the USA are furious, but the British governement has decided to save its aircraft industry by limiting the number of join programs. France was angry, but not Dassault, which had merge with Breguet in 1967 and saw the Jaguar as a threat for the F1. So the countries were happy to scrap the Jaguar program, which was in deep trouble at the time.
So the go ahead of the governement arrived on 17 february 1968. Starting from the TSR-2 meant that money was save; the plane was much scaled down, and had a single Spey engine of 11200kgp of thrust. Twin or single seat versions were made. 15meters long, 10.5 span, 8.5 tons empty 14 tons at take off, 1300km range on interception.  A naval version was to replace the Sea Vixen on Ark Royal and CVA-01 flight decks, and could also be sold to the Essex carriers buyers worlwide.
The plane flew on April, 17th 1971with Beamont at the controls, and rapidly prove to be a fantastic plane. It had much better handling than the Jaguar, and was realy similar to the TSR-2 on this way. It totally outran the Mirage F1,and turned circles around Mig-23 and Phantoms. Only the Viggen had similar performances...
Beamont testimony
"I saw the plane for the first time in late 1970. It was really a "baby TSR-2", more than the  Jaguar. The typical wingtips were still there, the plane really remind me the TSR-2. But it had only one engine, and one seat. The undercarriage had been much simplified, of course because the plane was much lighter but also to avoid the teething problems encountered on the TSR-2.
I prepared for the first flight on spring 1971.Handling was very similar to the TSR-2, and the cockpit, too.  I understood that BAC had use as many TSR-2 components as they can : a huge stockpile had stay on the plant after the cancellation 7 years earlier. This was of course a mean of saving time and money, but also a kind of revenge for the team. First flight on 17th April was unenventful : this time, no engine or undercarriage problems, and no american competitor - the LFW was still in the future-. The Spey was very powerful, acceleration was good (much better than the Mirage F1 I had tested the year before-.The plane was agile : wing loading was lower than the TSR-2, because it was not an attack plane... This fighter was promising, and I was happy that something of the TSR-2 was save."
It entered service in 1973 on RN and RAF, and quickly started to have big exports orders, as it was really much powerful than the F1, and much less expensive than the (end of the line) Phantom. First airplanes had the AWG-10 and Sparrow, but a version with Foxhunter and Skyflash quickly entered service. The plane was named BAC TFR-3 Phœnix, but TFR-3 was finnaly dropped.
The Phœnix was a powerful interceptor; it could easily received more powerful radars and missiles. It had a medium size delta  wing with a conventional tail, like the TSR-2. There was four hardpoints under the wings, and two under the belly. As in the Lightnings, two others were mounted on the side of air intakes.
On the interceptor role, the plane was very well armed :
-   Two skyflash recessed under the belly
-   Two AIM-9 on the air intakes racks.
-   Two drop tanks under the wings.
-   Two AIM-9 on the external underwing hardpoints.
One 30mm Aden gun was mounted below the cockpit on the left side.
Alternate armament was a drop tank under the belly, two AIM-9 on the air intakes and four skyflash under the wings.Wing area was 50m2 which gave a low wing loading and a high agility. All Lightnings were withdrawn in 1978; the Phœnix was perfectly able to escort the Tornado. And Great Britain still had a good aircraft industry... And Hawker also received a go ahead to develop his P-1216 VTOL mach1.8 fighter, which replace the Harriers worlwide in the 90's...

Buid a lightweight fighter (15tons MTOW) around a big turbofan with 22000Ibs of thrust. This fighter have a very good thrust-to-weight ratio which means very good agility in dogfight against Migs. More, as this fighter is light, it is cheap, and this become a world beater...this is exactly what the F-16 is... but not until 1977-80.

[PolluxDeltaSeven]

John Duff

             (you have to be French to understand the joke!)          


Well!! Great backstory, as usual!! You're very good for writing them

This TFR-3 sounds very cool to me, but I have to admit that I have some difficulties to draw it (most scales problems around the cokpit and the engine) and I start the F-18FL and the Mirage F1FM, so I can't do everything in the same time!!


But this plane could be very interresting, especially on foreign camo! For the export markets, I have some ideas, most of them to replace Jaguar, Phantom or Mirage F1 orders:
-India: instead of the Jaguar, they could ordered a simplified ground attack version of the Phoenix (something like what the Mirage 5 was for the Mirage III)
-Qatar: in the early 1980, this country could by some second-hand RAF Phoenix
-Kuwait, to replace the Lightnings
-South America: some Dassault's customers
-Turkey: to counter Greek Phantoms and later Mirage F1. Even if the Phoenix is lighter, it is cheaper and Turkish AF bought a lot of them!
-Canada: to replace the F-101


Et voila!!
Oh, just a detail: I think your fighter needs a little more internal fuel. I mean, 8,5t empty and 15t MTOW, if we include 4 or 5t of external loads, that allowed only 3t of internal fuel...
I think you could easily change the caracteristics into 7,5t empty and 17t MTOW... That's allow 6t of internal fuel!! I think a fighter based on the TSR-2 design could have a lot of space for fuel, even in downscaled variant. And with that, for the same combat range, it allowed 2 missiles more instead of the external tanks (and without them, the plane could be more agile, faster etc...)
At combat time (after some CAP), with only missiles under the wings, the plane will be between 12 and 14t... With a Spey engine, it don't need more

Well, that's just my opinion

[Archibald]

So you enjoy my (stupid) joke (John Duff.. ). This  man also made beer (remember what Homer Simpson drink?) and of course, is the father of Hillary...      

I agree with what you say about the TFR-3. The TSR-2 had a lot of room for the fuel, so the TFR-3 too.
I don't know if this plane must be a two seater (like the TSR-2 and Phantom) or a single seater.I prefer the two-seater (because I really want the Foxhunter/ Skyflash  of the Tornado ADV in the Phoenix). I think a dedicated interceptor (from the start) like the Phoenix is much better than the Tornado ADV (a heavy VG strike bomber... this cannot be a good fighter)

I think the TFR-3 can chunk half of the Mirage F1 sales (and of course,of  the Jaguar that I don't like very much...)
Hope to see tour profiles of F1FM and F18FL quickly!!  

[Hobbes]

One drawback of this approach would be that the TSR.2 design is optimised for low-level flight, and wouldn't do very well at high altitude.  

[Archibald]

We are in alternate world... but I thought about that, too.

I think a scaled down TSR-2 look like the Mirage F1 (high wing, tail).
But the wing loading is lower, because the TSR-2 wing was a delta, not a swept wing. And the delta offer more wing area (= less wing loading)for a similar size.

So, why not a fighter TSR-2 ? this was even proposed to the canadians in 1960, to replace their CF-105!!
Look at the Tornado ADV: this was turn into a fighter. If you compare a tornado and a TSR-2 from a "fighter" point of view, VG wing is even less adapted... a Delta with tail is roughly the Mig-21 configuration...

I agree, from the TSR-2 cockpit, view was not very good... but the Viggen, F1 and Mig-23 were not better : bubble canopies arrived on the next generation of fighter
(F-16, Mirage 4000).

[Zen]

The P.45 was studied with both VG and a TSR.2 like delta, but that had two engines.

[Archibald]

Totally agree. I red "British secret bomber projects" of Tony Butler this morning and quote the P45. Its the "real" project the most similar to the TFR-3; alas, this was a trainer/attack project, and still with two engines... but this project was good.

I think the main problem in the 60's was the obsession for lift-jets and VG wings, two costly and heavy technologies (just look at the first Su-24 prootype, the T-6)

[Archibald]

Another way to make a TFR-3 like fighter was to start from the Jaguar.
Make a 100% english derivative with one RB-168 Spey instead of the 2 RB-172 Adour, better air intakes (for mach2).
The main problem : the wing, too short and with a small area. More span (around 11 meters) a delta wing (keep on with the tail) means more wing area and as a consequence a lower wing loading.  
I think a Jaguar kit could be a good basis to make the TFR-3 (as the Mirage F1 for the ACF, or the Mig-23 for the Mirage G and G8 ^_^ )

[Zen]

The P145 is surely the closest Jaguar alternative for the priode, with all that is required.

Hawkers Supersonic trainer submission was clearly aimed at the Hunter replacement market, and would have made a nice light fighter.

The best Jaguar derviative would be to use the RB153 or the full scale RB.172 (from which the Adour is a scaled down version). FOr the time the wing is fine though the bigger wing proposed is attractive. When the RB.199 comes along that offeres some commonality with the Tornado.

There was also the Gnat MkV which bore little or no resemblence to the Gnat flown, with twin reheated RB153 and very high performance. The swing wing design is a close relative of it.