The Sound and the Fury - Wooksta's Fury thread

[The Wooksta!]

"That is the most completely brilliant thing I have ever seen!"

Some years ago, more than I care to admit, I did this:

You cannot view this attachment.

A Hawker Fury F.1.  The RAF had ordered quite a few and they were to have had a Sabre engine, the FAA getting the Centaurus engined Sea Fury.  Now everyone seems to do the Griffon one and I'd never seen one done before, so I cobbled this together from a PM Sea Fury, Aeroclub canopy and rail, Tempest prop, and an engine cowling from the Matchbox Tempest F.VI and a resin lower cowling.  But I'd got it wrong - the cowling is too short.  I only found that out the years later.  I shrugged.  My model, I was happy with it and I'd had my fun and that was all that mattered.

Flash forward to now.  I am poncing about with Tempests, Typhoon and a Sea Fury (I want to do a really early one in the three tone scheme with a four blade prop).  I remembered Kitbasher did an Eagle engined one and whilst I really liked it as a model, I found the markings he'd chosen too obvious because EVERYONE and their dog does sodding Carmicheal's aircraft if they do a Sea Fury (Australian modellers are equally sick of people doing that RAN one in blue).  It looked like this:

You cannot view this attachment.

So I thought I'd do something similar but in a different scheme, either three tone with a nice P marking, two tone with type C roundels or the markings straight out of the Trumpeter Sea Fury with the gorgeous yellow/red exercise markings.  I'd even dug out a spare Special Hobby Sea Fury fuselage to practice the cuts on.  But I'm not happy with the Eagle engine castings I have to hand and then - that's been done, why not do something different?  So I thought about redoing the Sabre Fury, but getting the cowling correct this time.

You cannot view this attachment.

So, from left to right.  A Matchbox Tempest cowling.  I thought I'd start there, because that's what I knew, but then had a rethink, because knowing my cackhandedness, lengthening the cowling wouldn't end up equal.  So I looked in the Tempest spares box to hand and chanced upon two left over fuselages (centre and right).  They've got a nice parallel section aft of the engine, so I could build the cowling and cut it to length properly using the Tempest airframe. 

So why two? Well, one is proof of concept, the second will be a master for a potential mould, or perhaps back up in case I very probably cock it up.

You cannot view this attachment.

So this is the sacrificial Sea Fury fuselage.  There's a lot of sanding to do there, as there's a lot of flare outs to accommodate the more rotund Centaurus, the Matchbox cowling could be useful as a guide to make sure I don't take too much off.

So that's yet another project.

I did say that there's another Sea Fury fuselage, so I may well do the Eagle one anyway, because I need to get my eye in merging that engine with that fuselage for something else I've been wanting to do for quite some time.

[NARSES2]

So that's yet another project.

Story of your life mate when your'e on a roll 

[The Wooksta!]

"Look, nobody's fed Special Patrol Group, have they?"

The resin has been broken out and a new lower cowling for one of the fuselages is curing now.  As well as another Eagle cowl, plus associated other bits to try out the new moulds.

Having reread the relevant sections of the reprint of BSP: Vol.3 Fighters on the Hawker P.1032, it doesn't say if it's RAF or FAA related, so IF I do one, it may end up in RAF colours instead.  Then again, I have enough Sea Furies tucked away (five single seaters, plus a trio of two seaters) to do both.

I really need to look at moulding a Wyvern prop at some stage.

[The Wooksta!]

"I don't think so, Michael. He was asleep on the radiator."

The Furies are getting along a bit further.

You cannot view this attachment.

A straight Special Hobby Sea Fury, but this is getting a four blade prop stolen from a Tempest to become a Sea Fury FB.X.  These were the really early ones and didn't last long.  IIRC, most were retrofitted with five blade props.  It's going in the wartime three tone scheme and Type C roundels for operations off northern Norway in the closing stages of the war, interrupting the Germans trying to defend their shipping from Mosquitoes and Beaufighters.  There may be a Banff Hornet at some stage.  I did one in 2001 but would like to revisit the idea with more experience and better knowledge. 

You cannot view this attachment.

I'd discovered this in the loft a few days back, one I'd forgotten about.  A PM Sea Fury de-navalised by removing the hook, dropping the rudder base to match the lower fuselage line and filling the wing folds.  I'd also fixed the spine and moved the seat forward to where it should be - the bulkhead behind it aligns with an external panel line.  It's got some paint on it, but I wasn't happy with the surface and gave it a light sanding.  Probably a 2TAF Tempest or Typhoon unit, haven't decided which yet, but it'll get a 4 blade prop.  This is the Fury F.II, the F.I having the Sabre.

I've just remembered there's a two seater to hand. and that's at a similar stage, although with Ocean Grey rather than Dark Sea.  Hmm.  Some research needed there I think, one of the AFS units?  Which one was flying Tempests?  A dig through Chris Lake's Flying Units of the RAF would be helpful.

And that's another one to add to a growing list, although this one is at a more advanced stage.

You cannot view this attachment.

And the current progress on the P.1032.  Yes, this is the Eagle one, but I'm using a Special Hobby one rather than the PM.  The wing is still thick - it was already assembled and doing the cuts was more problematic than on the PM kit as the PM plastic is soft and thinner than the harder and thicker SH plastic - so I'll again use Ventura wing root radiators rather than the resin ones.  I've yet to decide if it's going RAF or RN, how the engine join ends up after priming will decide it.  I also like the idea of an Eagle engined two seater, because a conversion trainer for something that race and pokey, not to mention the equally beastly Wyvern, which is going to need some careful handling, would absolutely be necessary. So one was duly dragged down from the loft.  A Sabre engined one would naturally follow.  I'm burning through the stash of Sea Furies at a perilous rate, and not yer cheap PM ones either.

[kitbasher]

The Centaurus Fury/Sea Fury is a handsome aircraft, the Sabre Fury is IHMO one of the most elegant piston-engined aircraft, yet the Griffon Fury is so ugly.  I get the power egg approach from an economics/engineering perspective, especially for multi-engined trash haulers, but not a fighter!

Looks like a basking shark when it should look like a mako shark.

Rant over.  Lee why don't you do your own Griffon Fury redesign?

[Gondor]

Not remembering what you were building is a right pain, especially when the work stops on a build a few years ago. I have a word document with my proposed builds listed on it. I simply score through or write completed at the end of the description so I know that it's finished. Not fool proof though.

[The Wooksta!]

"But we had to change the rules because Monopoly is so boring!"

Why don't you do your own Griffon Fury redesign?

Largely because everyone else has done it and TBH I thought yours was one of the better ones, because it was different.  I also think that people are looking at the engine wrong and just think Griffon = Annular = Shackleton engine cowling when looking at the photos it looks like a more bespoke mishmash of bits - typically British, really.  From my POV it looks more like a Merlin 85 cowling modified - and given that the Griffon Fury predates the Shattipus it's quite possible that it was a Merlin 85 cowling - and given the more rotund cowling of a Merlin 85, a Griffon should fit with space to spare for a few extra pies.  IF I were to do it - I'm not, it doesn't interest me* - then I'd likely go with a Merlin 85 cowling, because I have resin ones to hand that could be modified.

Having looked for photos of the Griffon Fury, these two kind of illustrate what I mean.

You cannot view this attachment.
You cannot view this attachment.

That's categorically not a Shattipus cowling.

During the search, I came upon this Facebook post, by Australian modeller Peter Hobbins (I've long been a fan of his work)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/848474938507986/posts/10012772568744798/

He started the Sabre Fury using an Airfix Firefly.  The only criticism I have of the builds is that whilst he's done all the work on the engine, he didn't sort out the cockpit - the seats are too far back.  I do have a dead Airfix Firefly fuselage somewhere, so that could be an alternate start, although the Tempest route is more Hawker.  From the photos, the rear of the exhausts lines up with the front of the l/e radiators and the back of the radiator aligns with the firewall.  The radiators I'll be using are 7mm wide, so 7mm from the back of the exhausts = firewall.

Said evidence:

You cannot view this attachment.

You cannot view this attachment.
You cannot view this attachment.

You cannot view this attachment.

You cannot view this attachment.

Two shots of the rough cowling in place on the Eagle airframe.  Lots of sanding to do to blend it all in and the cut outs underneath (holdovers from the cloned conversion and fuselage) will be covered by the l/e radiators.

Not remembering what you were building is a right pain, especially when the work stops on a build a few years ago. I have a word document with my proposed builds listed on it. I simply score through or write completed at the end of the description so I know that it's finished. Not fool proof though.

I only ever do a Plan when I'm actually building things, basically to track how far I've got, what little bits are done or need doing.  They go through several versions as deadlines loom.

You cannot view this attachment.

That's a cut down screenshot of the current one.  Not quite sure why the real world Hornets are in there, but still, you get an idea of how I do it.


*I'd go with Kitbasher's version, on the grounds that the l/e radiators were already available and the slimline cowling offered less drag, meaning a faster aircraft.  I don't have a spare MB5 Griffon kicking about, sadly, but I do have a Pegasus MB5 that could be chopped and given an Eagle, leaving a Griffon for another Fury.  I've done it once, don't see why I can't do it again.  Having checked the box, turns out I have two loose, plus one still sealed, so I think one could be sacrificed.  I have plenty of Magna ones (at least three in the box plus a fourth elsewhere) to play with if I want to do a really good MB5. There's also a Falcon vac form one in the box, but that was bought for the express purposes of using the wings to do the MB6 jet (think longer MiG 15 fuselage but with MB6 wings and tail).

[Gondor]

At last! Someone other than me that thinks the Griffon Fury uses a Merlin 85 cowling! I always thought that the look of the front didn't go with the Shackleton front, I admit that I never thought about the fact that it was way earlier than the Shackleton though. Now where did I put the bits I was going to use 

[The Wooksta!]

"Who can tell?"

Having had to go outside in the bitter Arctic winds, I nipped into the shed to look in a bits box and dragged out a couple of gash Merlin 85 cowlings (not fully cast) to see how well they math up against the Fury fuselage.

You cannot view this attachment.

This one has the shrouded exhausts.  Hmm.  Might be on to something...

You cannot view this attachment.
You cannot view this attachment.
You cannot view this attachment.

And this is t'other one I have, with yer actual proper exhausts.

You'd still have to play about with wing root intakes, because there's some small ones either side. 

You cannot view this attachment.
You cannot view this attachment.

But I do think a Merlin 85 is your short cut to a Griffon Fury.  It's not quite right - I think you'd have to lengthen the top a bit and play about with the exhausts.  I wouldn't recommend a set of Paragon Merlin 85s, as he didn't get the fronts right and they felt underscale somewhat. DB or Flightpath unshrouded or Blackbird for the Lancaster VI would be your best bet.

[kitbasher]

At last! Someone other than me that thinks the Griffon Fury uses a Merlin 85 cowling! I always thought that the look of the front didn't go with the Shackleton front, I admit that I never thought about the fact that it was way earlier than the Shackleton though. Now where did I put the bits I was going to use 

Not the only one, Alastair.

Thanks for the Fury-related plaudits, Lee.  Btw your builds are tempting me to build RW Sabre and Griffon Furies.  And a whif Griffon Tempest!

Re Airfix Firefly: I'm sure you're very aware of the  kit's overly narrow fuselage.  Fine in side view, nothing a shim couldn't sort as far as the cowling is concerned.

[The Wooksta!]

"I still tend to think that the whole outfit is somethat on the snug side."

Re Airfix Firefly: I'm sure you're very aware of the  kit's overly narrow fuselage.  Fine in side view, nothing a shim couldn't sort as far as the cowling is concerned.

Yeah, I had thought of that and I'm not sure quite where in the loft that dead fuselage is - I have a rough idea, but that bit is very dark and somewhat cramped.  I'll stick with my more tempestuous route, I thing, given that it's getting results.

Whilst we're talking about Griffon Furies, here's another of Peter Hobbins attempts.  Didn't get the engine front right on this one, although he started with a decent kit.  For my money, the High Planes one is the nicest, if a right pig to build.

https://modelingmadness.com/review/allies/gb/hobbinsfury1.htm

Thanks for the Fury-related plaudits, Lee.  Btw your builds are tempting me to build RW Sabre and Griffon Furies.  And a whif Griffon Tempest!

Tempest LA614 was to have got Griffon 61.  Had it been actually built (t'was cancelled), it may have looked rather like the Tempest I if they'd gone with the wing root radiator - the Tempest II with the Griffon looked like a normal Tempest, albeit with a smaller beard radiator.  It'd likely have the small Typhoon style tail, as the Centaurus Tempest prototype did. So unless you're going really mad, a Griffon Tempest likely wouldn't look much different.

Interesting article on Griffon Tempests and Furies
https://www.key.aero/article/could-rolls-royce-griffon-have-powered-hawker-typhoon

[Dizzyfugu]

I can, for inspiration, offer this:


1:72 Hawker P.1019 "Sea Fury" Mk. XII, aircraft "125-P (s/n JZ670)" of the Fleet Air Arm 1832 NAS; HMS Pioneer, Admiralty Islands, July 1945 (Whif/modified Airfix kit) by Dizzyfugu, on Flickr


1:72 Hawker P.1019 "Sea Fury" Mk. XII, aircraft "125-P (s/n JZ670)" of the Fleet Air Arm 1832 NAS; HMS Pioneer, Admiralty Islands, July 1945 (Whif/modified Airfix kit) by Dizzyfugu, on Flickr

[kitbasher]

There's a Sabre Firefly of mine lurking somewhere on the forum.

[The Wooksta!]

"Uh, smashed."

There's a Sabre Firefly of mine lurking somewhere on the forum.

TBH, I've been tempted with a Centaurus one.  I found a bagged Novo one(? Or judging by the colour of the plastic it may have been SMER) a few days back I could use and I know there's another one kicking about.  There was an original Magna Firefly AS7 but the engine front was missing, so I was thinking about re-engining it with something, but that original Magna resin is just sh*t so it was abandoned. Again.  I do have a pair of his later ones and an Airways vac form (which is simply beautiful)

I've been rereading the section of the reprinted BSP Vol 3 Fighters book on the Hawker P.1027.  It's ceiling was nigh on 44,000ft, which is what the Ta 152H maxed out at on one test flight (and it wasn't just the aircraft, the pilot was knocked too), so one in the High Altitude Day Fighter Scheme isn't too great a stretch.  Now I did one of those about 20 years back, but it had the scoop, so leading edge radiators instead?  No, because I liked the plan for the 2TAF one, but I could always do one of those later on the grounds of more variety in what I'm currently doing.  Much as I love 2TAF stuff, there's very probably too many in the current plan.

The two seat Fury I mentioned last night?  Having read various books, it was 226 OCU that had the Tempest, as well has Hornets and Meteors, so their code on it is possible.

I want to know what happened to my copies of the drawings for the P.1030, because all the cut and shut with Furies is making me itch to make a start on one of those. I *think* In know which box they're in, but finding it... Anyway, it's a noxious recipe of  SH Sea Fury fuselage, KPM/AZ Tempest wing (because the wheel wells are separate - although I could have used the horrid SH Tempest II had I not got shot of them all because I absolutely hated the fit, especially the resin wheel bay) and a resin Eagle engine.  The wing leading edge needs bringing forward outboard of the radiators and the fuselage needs a section aft of the wing, so I'd really like to have a plan to work to.  IIRC I did practice the cuts - badly - on a PM fuselage, but I'm thinking that was late 2009...


You cannot view this attachment.
You cannot view this attachment.

These are Justo Miranda's plans and he admits they're speculative - he's gone more Tempest than Fury, which could make like easier (basically, take my "standard" l/e rad 1027, mod the wing leading edge outboard and reshape the fin), but again, after rereading BSP Vol 3, P1030 was 2 ft longer than P.1027 and a foot wider in span (I suspect in the centre section).  Doesn't sound like much but..  4.25mm greater span, 9mm longer. And the BSP drawing of P1030 looks to have the raised cockpit of the Fury.  No, I need those plans, and these are not the drawings I'm looking for.

[kitbasher]

The P.1030 was indeed bigger.  I've those plans too, Lee (and miscellaneous bits to make one, it's on the 'to do' list).

The canopy does sit higher, Sea Fury-style.  Note front and rear fuselages are longer.  I'd concluded that a mix of Sea Fury and Tempest helps.

The 1030's fin/rudder have always looked a spot short to me (your Griffon Fury pics show the original short Fury fin/rudder).  Given the production Tempest and Sea Fury fins/rudders were larger than the prototypes, then I feel the same would be true of the 1030's.

Centaurus Firefly?  Yeah!