General Discussion

[NARSES2]

This will be the place for your general chat ladies and gents.

[McColm]

Does this include the air-cushion landing system for aircraft?

[PR19_Kit]

Please expand what you have in mind for such landing gear, and Tom and I will get back to you.

By PM if you prefer.

[McColm]

Please expand what you have in mind for such landing gear, and Tom and I will get back to you.

By PM if you prefer.

Something similar to the DHC 5A XC-8A Buffalo but if this is outside the criteria I do have  ideas for the Airfix Fairey Rotodyne. 

[Andrew Gorman]

Sounds like fun!  Some inspiration- Oliver Evans Oruktor Amphibolus and the LVHX2 hydrofoil truck:

[PR19_Kit]

Something similar to the DHC 5A XC-8A Buffalo but if this is outside the criteria I do have  ideas for the Airfix Fairey Rotodyne. 

An aircraft with just an air cushion landing gear isn't an amphibian, sorry.

It's not doing anything that a normal aeroplane does, it takes off from land, and flies.

[Weaver]

Something similar to the DHC 5A XC-8A Buffalo but if this is outside the criteria I do have  ideas for the Airfix Fairey Rotodyne. 

An aircraft with just an air cushion landing gear isn't an amphibian, sorry.

It's not doing anything that a normal aeroplane does, it takes off from land, and flies.

What if it had wingtip floats with retractable outrigger wheels in them, so that it could land on land or water?

[TomZ]

Dear everyone,

It is NOT about an aircraft being able to take off or land on fixed land. It is about being able to OPERATE on two environments. Just being to land does NOT qualify.
If we were to allow that, then any aircraft would qualify as it flies in the air and lands on fixed ground.

The crux is the word "operate". An aircraft that can function as an aircraft AND as a car or as a boat will qualify. However take care of the rule that it may not shed or add parts when transitioning to another medium.


TomZ

Something similar to the DHC 5A XC-8A Buffalo but if this is outside the criteria I do have  ideas for the Airfix Fairey Rotodyne. 

An aircraft with just an air cushion landing gear isn't an amphibian, sorry.

It's not doing anything that a normal aeroplane does, it takes off from land, and flies.

What if it had wingtip floats with retractable outrigger wheels in them, so that it could land on land or water?

[Weaver]

Okay, but the XC-8A Buffalo could land and take off on it's hover cushion, on land or water. It had wingtip floats (my memory failed me earlier) with skids extending below them for operations from land. It could "operate" from land or water in exactly the same way as a flying boat with retractable wheels can, so if an "amphibian" flying boat is in-scope, I don't see why an XC-8A-like aircraft wouldn't be.

[McColm]

So an aquacar would qualify as it can travel on roads and operate in lakes or a DUKW but a floating tank does have the tendency to sink so a kitbash would solve the problem in Whiffland.
If the XC-8A had a pair of skis instead of the floats then your idea of the outrigger landing gear would work.

[perttime]

Gibbs Quadski, as seen on Top Gear:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_x1lY7t1p0

[TomZ]

So an aquacar would qualify as it can travel on roads and operate in lakes or a DUKW but a floating tank does have the tendency to sink so a kitbash would solve the problem in Whiffland.
If the XC-8A had a pair of skis instead of the floats then your idea of the outrigger landing gear would work.

In my opinion it all depends on what the aircraft would do when on land. Just landing is I think not enough to qualify as OPERATING.
The DUKW is equally at home in water and on land, so it qualifies. The Aerocar would qualify as long as it does not shed it wings when driving on land.
Just having a float of air cushion or whatever to enable an aircraft to land somewhere does not qualify it as amphibian in my opinion.

But let me discuss this with my fellow moderator and we will come back to this topic.

TomZ

[Charlie_c67]

So certain marks of the Catalina and the Widgeon are a good example of what we're looking at?

[Weaver]

So an aquacar would qualify as it can travel on roads and operate in lakes or a DUKW but a floating tank does have the tendency to sink so a kitbash would solve the problem in Whiffland.
If the XC-8A had a pair of skis instead of the floats then your idea of the outrigger landing gear would work.

In my opinion it all depends on what the aircraft would do when on land. Just landing is I think not enough to qualify as OPERATING.
The DUKW is equally at home in water and on land, so it qualifies. The Aerocar would qualify as long as it does not shed it wings when driving on land.
Just having a float of air cushion or whatever to enable an aircraft to land somewhere does not qualify it as amphibian in my opinion.

But let me discuss this with my fellow moderator and we will come back to this topic.

TomZ

Please do confer with your fellow mod before replying, but just food for thought:

If merely landing and taking off from land doesn't qualify an aircraft as "operating" on land, and merely landing and taking off from water doesn't qualify an aircraft as "operating" on water, then you have to rule out any floatplane or flying boat with retractable wheels (such as some marks of Catalina) from being elegible for the "Amphibian GB" despite the generally accepted term for such aircraft being "Amphibian".

An air-cushioned landing system aircraft, such as the XC-8A, has EXACTLY the same range of landing/take-off options as a displacement hull flying-boat with retractable wheels, so either both of them should be allowed, or neither should be. Allowing one and barring the other would be perverse and illogical in my view.

Just my two penn'th, as ever.

[kerick]

I think what we mean by "operating" is flying through the air from point A to point B, landing at the airport or local lake, and then driving the extra 30 miles to the hotel. Or a boat/ship/submarine sailing across or under the lake/ ocean then driving/flying across the land to its destination. Folding or retracting wings, wheels or floats as required but all the parts have to stay on the vehicle.
Correct me if I'm wrong. I hope this helps.