General Discussion

[Joe C-P]

Ah!  I have it!  One last sailing ship model our of the spares. 

But how to model it?

[loupgarou]

Ah!  I have it!  One last sailing ship model our of the spares. 

But how to model it?

A big  fan at the stern to propel it when there is no wind?

[PR19_Kit]

A big  fan at the stern to propel it when there is no wind?

              

[Weaver]

How about a really badly designed steam warship?

I'd say put the crowsnest behind the forward funnel, but some pre-dreadnoughts actually did that for real...  

So how about putting the whole bridge and spotting top amidships and as high as possible, then having two, lower, side-by-side funnels in front of it and two behind it, thereby ensuring that the view from the bridge will be utterly blocked no matter which direction the ship's going in or the wind's blowing from.  A stern paddlewheel would nicely obstruct any firing arcs to the rear and would last all of five minutes in a firefight, while a huge, tall ram bow would equally obstruct all the forward arcs. That would leave all the guns side-firing, in barbettes, which can't be sealed against water ingress, so put the lowest ones as near the waterline as possible, then put the biggest guns highest up to avoid the flooding problem, only to create a topweight problem. Make them in as many different calibres as possible too, just to make splash-spotting even harder.

[NARSES2]

   
Gunner from the 7.2" unit, walking down the hill with a lantern: "Blessed be those that have seen a seven-point-two..."
Voice from the darkness: "What colour was it?"

My understanding is that gunner Milligan didn't meet gunner Seacombe on that occasion, they just found out later that they were in the two units involved.

Ah right. I couldn't remember the exact circumstances from Miligan's autobiography. (By the way I used to drink in the "Goons" pub in Strutton Ground on the way home from work on occaision, still loads of memorabilia then)

As for the Imperial Russian Baltic Fleet in 1905. It very nearly got attacked by the Grand Fleet after firing at the Grimsby fishing fleet thinking they were Japanese Torpedo boats. Mind you as Britain and Japan were allies at the time I suppose they might have thought we'd let the Japanese base ships in our harbours ? Polititians smoothed the waters though.

[Rheged]

This book  https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/45298589-the-fleet-that-had-to-die  is a good resume of the whole saga.  From the state of it, I think my copy is an original 1958 edition.

[scooter]

How about a really badly designed steam warship?

I'd say put the crowsnest behind the forward funnel, but some pre-dreadnoughts actually did that for real...  

So how about putting the whole bridge and spotting top amidships and a high as possible, then having two, lower, side-by-side funnels in front of it and two behind it, thereby ensuring that the view from the bridge will be utterly blocked no matter which direction the ship's going in or the wind's blowing from.  A stern paddlewheel would nicely obstruct any firing arcs to the rear and would last all of five minutes in a firefight, while a huge, tall ram bow would equally obstruct all the forward arcs. That would leave all the guns side-firing, in barbettes, which can't be sealed against water ingress, so put the lowest ones as near the waterline as possible, then put the biggest guns highest up to avoid the flooding problem, only to create a topweight problem. Make them in as many different calibres as possible too, just to make splash-spotting even harder.

Don't forget about lots of windows, like some of the early French armored hotels pre-dreadnoughts.

[loupgarou]

How about a really badly designed steam warship?

I'd say put the crowsnest behind the forward funnel, but some pre-dreadnoughts actually did that for real...  

So how about putting the whole bridge and spotting top amidships and a high as possible, then having two, lower, side-by-side funnels in front of it and two behind it, thereby ensuring that the view from the bridge will be utterly blocked no matter which direction the ship's going in or the wind's blowing from.  A stern paddlewheel would nicely obstruct any firing arcs to the rear and would last all of five minutes in a firefight, while a huge, tall ram bow would equally obstruct all the forward arcs. That would leave all the guns side-firing, in barbettes, which can't be sealed against water ingress, so put the lowest ones as near the waterline as possible, then put the biggest guns highest up to avoid the flooding problem, only to create a topweight problem. Make them in as many different calibres as possible too, just to make splash-spotting even harder.

Don't forget about lots of windows, like some of the early French armored hotels pre-dreadnoughts.

French had some really weird pre-dreadnought designs.

[perttime]

Another thread reminded me of a bad idea that wasn't the design of an airplane, or other vehicle:

Using the vehicle for something that it was not designed for.

According to an interview with the Finnish Ace of Aces, Ilmari Juutilainen, Finnish Brewster F2A-1 pilots would sometimes transport mechanics in the ample fuselage of the fighter. One pilot went a little too far. He found out that carrying a couple of friends, a large suitcase, and a large dog in the Brewster fuselage was not a great idea.
The passengers were discovered after a landing mishap, and there was a Court Martial.

(I cannot find the interview online now)

[Weaver]

   
Gunner from the 7.2" unit, walking down the hill with a lantern: "Blessed be those that have seen a seven-point-two..."
Voice from the darkness: "What colour was it?"

My understanding is that gunner Milligan didn't meet gunner Seacombe on that occasion, they just found out later that they were in the two units involved.

Ah right. I couldn't remember the exact circumstances from Miligan's autobiography. (By the way I used to drink in the "Goons" pub in Strutton Ground on the way home from work on occaision, still loads of memorabilia then)

As for the Imperial Russian Baltic Fleet in 1905. It very nearly got attacked by the Grand Fleet after firing at the Grimsby fishing fleet thinking they were Japanese Torpedo boats. Mind you as Britain and Japan were allies at the time I suppose they might have thought we'd let the Japanese base ships in our harbours ? Polititians smoothed the waters though.

Well as Drach said in one of his videos, it was a stupid idea, but not a totally stupid one. The UK and Japan were close and some Japanese ships were built in the UK and sailed to Japan through UK home waters, so in theory a squadron of newly-completed torpedo craft could have set sail from Vospers' yard and gone straight into battle, however unlikely it would be in practice. Since torpedo boats of the day were tiny, there's no way anyone would try to sail them from the UK to Japan: they'd take them as deck cargo on a freighter.

[CammNut]

Funny that the XFV-12A should come up as a bad idea. Myself and two Aviation Week colleagues were being given a tour of NASA's Armstrong Test Facility in Sandusky, Ohio, on Tuesday (Feb. 25) and what should we see but...




The XFV-12A was built by Rockwell in Columbus, Ohio, and after the program was cancelled and the aircraft was disassembled, the forward fuselage ended up being stored at what was then NASA's Plum Brook Station, which once had an experimental nuclear reactor (decommissioned) and a nuclear rocket test facility (repurposed, we got to tour that one). Bad idea, but sad to see it sitting forlorn on its trolley in the woods.

[kerick]

Funny that the XFV-12A should come up as a bad idea. Myself and two Aviation Week colleagues were being given a tour of NASA's Armstrong Test Facility in Sandusky, Ohio, on Tuesday (Feb. 25) and what should we see but...




The XFV-12A was built by Rockwell in Columbus, Ohio, and after the program was cancelled and the aircraft was disassembled, the forward fuselage ended up being stored at what was then NASA's Plum Brook Station, which once had an experimental nuclear reactor (decommissioned) and a nuclear rocket test facility (repurposed, we got to tour that one). Bad idea, but sad to see it sitting forlorn on its trolley in the woods.

Send it to Pima Air Museum. If anyone can get the parts back together they can. That would be a good idea.

[jcf]

How about a really badly designed steam warship?

I'd say put the crowsnest behind the forward funnel, but some pre-dreadnoughts actually did that for real...  

So how about putting the whole bridge and spotting top amidships and as high as possible, then having two, lower, side-by-side funnels in front of it and two behind it, thereby ensuring that the view from the bridge will be utterly blocked no matter which direction the ship's going in or the wind's blowing from.  A stern paddlewheel would nicely obstruct any firing arcs to the rear and would last all of five minutes in a firefight, while a huge, tall ram bow would equally obstruct all the forward arcs. That would leave all the guns side-firing, in barbettes, which can't be sealed against water ingress, so put the lowest ones as near the waterline as possible, then put the biggest guns highest up to avoid the flooding problem, only to create a topweight problem. Make them in as many different calibres as possible too, just to make splash-spotting even harder.

Interestingly enough in the records of the few combats by ocean-going side-wheeler
warships damage to the paddle-wheels was negligible, even when the wheels and/or
paddle-boxes were hit. Which was difficult to do as the solid bits of a paddle-wheel are
actually pretty small in comparison to the apparent size of the whole.

River combat during the US Civil War had a similar result, even multiple direct hits through
the covers over the paddle-wheels rarely resulted in putting them out of action. Hits to the
boilers, engines and the con were the most common reasons.

[jcf]

Ah!  I have it!  One last sailing ship model our of the spares. 

But how to model it?

A big  fan at the stern to propel it when there is no wind?

It would need to have Ader propeller style blades.

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[jcf]

Speaking of cruiser subs, four USN designs from 1920.

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