Author Topic: Boulton-Paul VTOL craziness  (Read 1213 times)

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Offline joncarrfarrelly

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Boulton-Paul VTOL craziness
« on: April 11, 2019, 02:07:27 pm »
A few B-P notions.


(note that the drawing does not show the fan location, I'll be adding that in myself, and will update the post.)





"Evil our grandsires were, our fathers worse;
And we, till now unmatched in ill,
Must leave successors more corrupted still."
Horace, 65BC - 8BC. Marsh translation.

Offline joncarrfarrelly

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Re: Boulton-Paul VTOL craziness
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2019, 02:20:34 pm »
More.











"Evil our grandsires were, our fathers worse;
And we, till now unmatched in ill,
Must leave successors more corrupted still."
Horace, 65BC - 8BC. Marsh translation.

Offline zenrat

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Re: Boulton-Paul VTOL craziness
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2019, 05:09:45 am »
I can't help but view lift engines as nothing more than dead weight.
Fred

Another ill conceived, lazily thought out, crudely executed and badly painted piece of half arsed what-if modelling muppetry from zenrat industries.

Offline rickshaw

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Re: Boulton-Paul VTOL craziness
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2019, 06:01:05 am »
I can't help but view lift engines as nothing more than dead weight.

They aren't seen that way by the engine manufacturers...   :banghead:
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Offline kitnut617

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Re: Boulton-Paul VTOL craziness
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2019, 06:07:09 am »
I can't help but view lift engines as nothing more than dead weight.

Probably why you never see any aircraft in production powered like it. But I'm in total agreement with your comment, on of my main pet peeves -- dead weight being only used for 1% of the operational time (and I think that's being generous too)
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Offline NARSES2

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Re: Boulton-Paul VTOL craziness
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2019, 06:19:30 am »
True it is/was a design dead end, but that doesn't stop them looking amazing. One or two are extremely futuristic looking. I wonder if some of the prop designers on things like Thunderbirds originally worked in the aircraft industry ?
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Offline joncarrfarrelly

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Re: Boulton-Paul VTOL craziness
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2019, 09:34:42 pm »
I can't help but view lift engines as nothing more than dead weight.

They aren't seen that way by the engine manufacturers...   :banghead:

????????

Nobody makes lift-jets anymore.
"Evil our grandsires were, our fathers worse;
And we, till now unmatched in ill,
Must leave successors more corrupted still."
Horace, 65BC - 8BC. Marsh translation.

Offline rickshaw

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Re: Boulton-Paul VTOL craziness
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2019, 06:12:56 am »
I can't help but view lift engines as nothing more than dead weight.

They aren't seen that way by the engine manufacturers...   :banghead:

????????

Nobody makes lift-jets anymore.

No, they don't.  However, when they did, they weren't seen that way, Jon.
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Offline Captain Canada

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Re: Boulton-Paul VTOL craziness
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2019, 06:28:16 am »
That's some neat stuff ! Thanks for sharing. So many ideas out there.....
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Offline Old Wombat

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Re: Boulton-Paul VTOL craziness
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2019, 09:32:21 am »
True it is/was a design dead end, but that doesn't stop them looking amazing. One or two are extremely futuristic looking. I wonder if some of the prop designers on things like Thunderbirds originally worked in the aircraft industry ?

The P.146 has a very strong Gerry Anderson / Thunderbirds vibe happening. :mellow:
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Offline Air21

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Re: Boulton-Paul VTOL craziness
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2019, 05:25:52 am »
Quote
They aren't seen that way by the engine manufacturers...   :banghead:

Sure, like in the F-35b the lift fan only adds value in a very narrow range of the flight envelope but it's function is essential to that very special purpose.  So as a manufacturer I get to upsell you on this magical feature, then put a premium on spares for that whole assembly because if one part of my Rube-Goldberg flying contraption doesn't work then what you have is an overweight F-35a with no gun and less fuel.

I'd bet the same bearing (naturally with different part numbers) in the lift fan is ten times as expensive as the one in the main engine just because it's running 90 degrees off orientation  :rolleyes:

At least the Harrier could vector thrust in flight to be more maneuverable, the Lightning II not so much.

Offline PR19_Kit

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Re: Boulton-Paul VTOL craziness
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2019, 08:54:18 am »

I'd bet the same bearing (naturally with different part numbers) in the lift fan is ten times as expensive as the one in the main engine just because it's running 90 degrees off orientation  :rolleyes:


I installed the machine that Rolls Royce use to make the F-35B lift fan (RR make ALL the F-35 lift fans here in the UK) and the machine and the associated GINORMOUS hydraulic power supply cost something like 7-8 million!

On that basis I hate to think how much the fans themselves cost.  :o
Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage

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Offline joncarrfarrelly

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Re: Boulton-Paul VTOL craziness
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2019, 01:41:22 pm »
The F-35 doesn't need to VIFF.  :rolleyes:
"Evil our grandsires were, our fathers worse;
And we, till now unmatched in ill,
Must leave successors more corrupted still."
Horace, 65BC - 8BC. Marsh translation.

Offline PR19_Kit

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Re: Boulton-Paul VTOL craziness
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2019, 02:23:18 pm »
I don't think Harriers NEEDED to VIFF, they just could, which turned out to be quite handy.
Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

Regards
Kit

Offline joncarrfarrelly

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Re: Boulton-Paul VTOL craziness
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2019, 09:27:49 pm »
I don't think Harriers NEEDED to VIFF, they just could, which turned out to be quite handy.
Handy for what? Sure it was used in training exercises, however it's doubtful it would have been
a smart move during an actual combat situation with multiple adversaries, you VIFF, he overshoots
his wingman nails you because you've slowed down. Also only of use in a close-in turning fight.
 :rolleyes:

A neat airshow trick, like the Sukhoi "Cobra".
"Evil our grandsires were, our fathers worse;
And we, till now unmatched in ill,
Must leave successors more corrupted still."
Horace, 65BC - 8BC. Marsh translation.