Author Topic: The American Hogsback bomber - Korea 1950  (Read 4831 times)

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Offline Bungle

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The American Hogsback bomber - Korea 1950
« on: September 09, 2014, 08:26:58 am »
First : What Flyer wants, Flyer gets.

This little conversation went on in the The Idea Bank / What do you plan to build in near future? thread discussing post war Mistel combinations



Also thinking of an American Mistel using a Twin Mustang not sure what to use with it though.

Actually thinking more along the lines of a P-61 with the F-82 on top.

Problem is I haven't got a Black Widow in the stash. Got an old Hawkeye but then the new / old ages are the wrong way round.

Find a P-61 as that Hogsback ;D combo sounds awesome, I wanna see it! :cheers:

So here for Mr/Miss/Mrs/Ms/Senhor/Senhora/Senhorita/Domnişoară/Doamnă/Domn/Pan/Pani/Panna/Signore/Signora/Signorin/Señor/Señora/Señorita/Meneer/Mevrou/Mejuffrou/Herra/Rouva/Neiti/Herr/Fru/Fröken/Ginoo/Binibini/Ginang Flyer I suggest the USAF Hogsback Bomber.

Blimey going to have to have a lie down after that lot Part Two - The backstory to follow :



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Offline Bungle

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Re: The American Hogsback bomber - Korea 1950
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2014, 08:49:19 am »

Korea

November 1950

Wednesday

In November 1950, it was becoming apparent that the Chinese were manoeuvring to take part in the Korean shindig. General MacArthur ordered UN Forces to intensify their airborne attacks on enemy communications supply routes and troop movements.

One such area of interest were bridges over the Yalu River, the border between Korea and Manchuria. Previously this was a no go area to air assault due to the closeness of Chinese personnel actually in China !  MacArthur argued that the Yalu bridges were of great importance to the Chinese for whatever their intentions were in Korea. The sensitivity of not wishing to provoke any international incident by bombing Chinese soil it was deemed that using the B-29 Superfortress in high level raids for such a bombing mission was both high risk and of dubious accuracy. At that time penetration into Manchurian/Chinese airspace was strictly prohibited making approaches to the target difficult, especially as the aviators were not to return fire on the hostile forces on the Chinese side of the river. The UN Airforce needed a quick in and out attack that was highly accurate.

Initial attacks by Skyraiders and Corsairs had little success because of limited payload they could deliver. Bridges were hit but no killer blow achieved on the major targets. Add to this the sudden intervention of the Chinese MiG-15s and the UN Forces were struggling to even get to the target. What was needed was something faster and with a greater payload.

"A child of five would understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of five." - Julius Henry Marx (Groucho)

Offline Bungle

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Re: The American Hogsback bomber - Korea 1950
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2014, 01:49:48 pm »
The North American/Northrop Hogsback

Based on the Luftwaffe Mistel concept the US Airforce decided to team up the North American F-82 Twin Mustang with surplus Northrop P-61 Black Widows.

The P-61 was packed with high explosive and napalm and was, of course, unmanned. The pilot in the port Mustang flew the contraption when coupled, the starboard pilot flew the P-61 by radio control once released from its host.















"A child of five would understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of five." - Julius Henry Marx (Groucho)

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Re: The American Hogsback bomber - Korea 1950
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2014, 03:16:33 am »
Wild!  :thumbsup:

Offline Captain Canada

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Re: The American Hogsback bomber - Korea 1950
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2014, 05:33:00 am »
That's a neat little scenerio you two have brewed up there ! Would have made a few holes in things that's for sure ! Love the colours and camo on the Mustang.

 :cheers:
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Offline NARSES2

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Re: The American Hogsback bomber - Korea 1950
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2014, 07:38:36 am »
That is nice sir  :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Decals my @r$e!

Offline kitnut617

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Re: The American Hogsback bomber - Korea 1950
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2014, 08:00:35 am »
Interesting idea  :thumbsup:

I see you used the Hobbycraft boxing of the F-82  ;)
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Offline Bungle

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Re: The American Hogsback bomber - Korea 1950
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2014, 12:22:09 pm »

I see you used the Hobbycraft boxing of the F-82  ;)

Actually it was the Idea boxing



Not the most pleasant of kits  :unsure:
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Offline kitnut617

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Re: The American Hogsback bomber - Korea 1950
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2014, 12:49:59 pm »

I see you used the Hobbycraft boxing of the F-82  ;)

Actually it was the Idea boxing



Not the most pleasant of kits  :unsure:

That's interesting because I noticed that the two propellers turn in the same direction, which is the same as what the Hobbycraft kits have their propellers doing (got two of them myself).  The two Monogram/Revell and the one RoG  kits I also have, have the propellers counter rotating. My 'Big Book' says the Idea kit is a Mongram re-boxing which doesn't seem to be right.  Apart from that the kits are identical to each other.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2014, 12:53:03 pm by kitnut617 »
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Offline PR19_Kit

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Re: The American Hogsback bomber - Korea 1950
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2014, 02:11:20 pm »
Aren't all the P-82 kits on the market either re-pops of the original Monogram kit or cribbed off it?

I was always under the impression that the Hobbycraft kit was cribbed off it, but if so why the devil did they go to the bother of getting the props WRONG!?

There was a rumoured FROG P-82 as well, but I've never seen one, and I don't know anyone who has either.
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Offline kitnut617

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Re: The American Hogsback bomber - Korea 1950
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2014, 02:33:37 pm »
Aren't all the P-82 kits on the market either re-pops of the original Monogram kit or cribbed off it?

I was always under the impression that the Hobbycraft kit was cribbed off it, but if so why the devil did they go to the bother of getting the props WRONG!?

There was a rumoured FROG P-82 as well, but I've never seen one, and I don't know anyone who has either.

Well here's something interesting out of the 'Big Book' -- all 1/72 F-82's: Aurora, Frog (reboxed by BFI, Novo, Revell), Hobbycraft, Monogram (reboxed by Arc en Ciel, Hasegawa, Idea, Taka)

Edit: Looking at the listings on Scale Mates, the Frog kit was only produced as 'test shots' -- which is probably why no one has seen a proper boxing from them, for that it would have been Novo, because this was the company that was set up after Frog closed down.  It's basically Frog but under a different name.

Also looking at photos of other peoples builds of the F-82, I notice a lot of people put the props on the wrong way around for the kits that do have counter-rotating props.

Edit2: The 'Big Book' has the Frog kit listed as F405 (TM), TM being 'Test Moulds' and these appeared right when Frog closed down.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2014, 03:14:27 pm by kitnut617 »
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Offline PR19_Kit

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Re: The American Hogsback bomber - Korea 1950
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2014, 04:33:12 pm »
Aren't all the P-82 kits on the market either re-pops of the original Monogram kit or cribbed off it?

I was always under the impression that the Hobbycraft kit was cribbed off it, but if so why the devil did they go to the bother of getting the props WRONG!?

There was a rumoured FROG P-82 as well, but I've never seen one, and I don't know anyone who has either.

Well here's something interesting out of the 'Big Book' -- all 1/72 F-82's: Aurora, Frog (reboxed by BFI, Novo, Revell), Hobbycraft, Monogram (reboxed by Arc en Ciel, Hasegawa, Idea, Taka)

Edit: Looking at the listings on Scale Mates, the Frog kit was only produced as 'test shots' -- which is probably why no one has seen a proper boxing from them, for that it would have been Novo, because this was the company that was set up after Frog closed down.  It's basically Frog but under a different name.

Also looking at photos of other peoples builds of the F-82, I notice a lot of people put the props on the wrong way around for the kits that do have counter-rotating props.

Edit2: The 'Big Book' has the Frog kit listed as F405 (TM), TM being 'Test Moulds' and these appeared right when Frog closed down.

Lots of clarificartion there Robert, thanks so much.  :thumbsup:

As to fitting the props the wrong way round, if they'd have it backdated with Merlins it'd have been the prototype. NA built it with opposite rotating props but found there wasn't enough lift as the propwash over the centre section negated any lift it was producing. How bizarre is that?
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Re: The American Hogsback bomber - Korea 1950
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2014, 03:37:33 am »
They did.

The prototype was built with the props rotating outward at the top and the combined upwash on the underside of the wing centre section decreased the lift there. They swapped engines so that the props rotated inward at the top and that cured the problem and all production P-82s were bult that way.

I would imagine that the 'tunnel effect' of the two fuselages improved the overall lift available from the centre section, which is why the prop rotation had such a marked effect.

It doesn't help the modeller that so many drawings of the P-82 are drwan with both props rotating the SAME way, presumably because the lazy draughtsmen (or women...) copied the nose froma P-51 drawing.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2014, 03:40:03 am by PR19_Kit »
Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage

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Offline kitnut617

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Re: The American Hogsback bomber - Korea 1950
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2014, 06:12:15 am »
Only one P-82 had the props rotating the same way, the P-82A which was an Allison engine version (which wasn't proceeded with). Even though the Hobbycraft (and the Idea) kit have them rotating in the same direction, they have them rotating in the wrong direction, I'm saying that because all the Allison engines before the F-82E rotated the prop in the other direction to which those kits have them.
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Offline kitnut617

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Re: The American Hogsback bomber - Korea 1950
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2014, 06:17:12 am »

 couldn't they simply swap over the engines


Well, a bit of trivia,

Originally, the DH Hornet's props turned in the direction a P-38's did, some aerodynamic problems created by this arrangement caused the engineers to swap the engines over and had the props turning like the P-82's
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