What to use to drop a massive ordnance penetrator

[chrisonord]

The title of the post over simplifies the question, as I have a few things that have to be met to make it doable. Firstly I have scratch bodged a. MPP from a 48th scale exocet missile and some plastic card, going off the size of it it will be around the 6,000 lb mark ish. So nowhere near as heavy as the US version. It belongs to the Honduras air force, for dropping on Cartel underground establishments mostly and the occasional mountain tunnel. I originally envisaged hanging it off the centre line of  my mirage III V-01, which is going to get all the VSTOL bits blanked off and made into a mirage tress grande. An alternative to the mirage I of you will, with a socking great engine in it and the capability to fly very fast at altitude and on the deck. I was originally going to load it with bombs but the Mop carrying job came about. So, I have built the bomb, but it will only fit on the centre line if fitted quite far back, so the fins avoid the rear landing gear doors. So, plan B has come about, what else which is available in 72 scale, was around from the 80's to modern day and could carry said payload, and would fit in with the budget of a south American country, that is still wringing every last minute out of their mirage III's. Also, something that won't cost a bomb for me. Cheers.

[zenrat]

Does it have a guidance package?  Then shove it out the back of a C-130 and let it steer itself in.

Alternatively, MiG 25 or 31.  An early release Hasegawa 25 should be affordable.

[chrisonord]

Does it have a guidance package?  Then shove it out the back of a C-130 and let it steer itself in.

Alternatively, MiG 25 or 31

That idea has crossed my mind as has using a captured Russian built aircraft, ie, an SU - 34, seized when a cargo ship was intercepted going to Nicaragua. Ideally, the carrier aircraft needs to be quick, and be able to defend itself, ie carry sidewinders. I have just looked at the mirage I I have done, and it might just do the job, I will have to get another one though, as this one is set up to drop numerous dumb bombs. Hmm....
Cheers Fred.

[chrisonord]

Here is a picture of the bomb next to a 72 scale phantom for comparison.

[Charlie_c67]

I mean, a Phantom could, in theory, carry it if it also had not a lot else on and there was the ground clearance.

I guess anything smaller than a traditional bomber or transport would have to have it attached to the fuselage as the flex on the wing spar of carrying then letting it go could well be terminal for the airframe.

[chrisonord]

I mean, a Phantom could, in theory, carry it if it also had not a lot else on and there was the ground clearance.

I guess anything smaller than a traditional bomber or transport would have to have it attached to the fuselage as the flex on the wing spar of carrying then letting it go could well be terminal for the airframe.

Hmm? I didn't include the phantom, as I wasn't sure it could carry a 6,000lb bomb, drop tanks and sidewinders. I will have to look the specs up.

[chrisonord]

Just looked at the specs on the phantom, and it all looks to be doable, but.... the snag is the gap underneath the fuselage might not be big enough, I will give that department a coat of looking at tomorrow. Cheers.

[Spey_Phantom]

you could fit it between de nacelles of an F-14, or an Su-27?
otherwise, like Rat said, shove it out of the back of a C-130 

[Gondor]

From Wikipedia.

The second line is the bit you need.

Armament

    E-model has a 20 mm (0.787 in) M61A1 Vulcan cannon mounted internally under the nose, 640 rounds
    Up to 18,650 lb (8,480 kg) of weapons on nine external hardpoints, including general-purpose bombs, cluster bombs, TV- and laser-guided bombs, rocket pods, air-to-ground missiles, anti-ship missiles, gun pods, and nuclear weapons. Reconnaissance, targeting, electronic countermeasures and baggage pods, and external fuel tanks may also be carried.
    4× AIM-9 Sidewinders on wing pylons, Israeli F-4 Kurnass 2000 carried Python-3, Japanese F-4EJ Kai carry AAM-3.
    4× AIM-7 Sparrow in fuselage recesses, upgraded Hellenic F-4E and German F-4F ICE carry AIM-120 AMRAAM, UK Phantoms carried Skyflash missiles[268]
    6× AGM-65 Maverick
    4× AGM-62 Walleye
    4× AGM-45 Shrike, AGM-88 HARM, AGM-78 Standard ARM
    4× GBU-15, GBU-24
    18× Mk.82, GBU-12
    5× Mk.84, GBU-10
    18× CBU-87, CBU-89, CBU-58
    12x MK-20 Rockeye
    Nuclear weapons, including the B28EX, B61, B43 and B57

[chrisonord]

Thanks for the info,  I think, as long as the weapon will fit underneath the fuselage with a bit of room to spare, it should be good to go.

[Weaver]

From Wikipedia.

The second line is the bit you need.

...
    Up to 18,650 lb (8,480 kg) of weapons on nine external hardpoints, including general-purpose bombs, cluster bombs, TV- and laser-guided bombs, rocket pods, air-to-ground missiles, anti-ship missiles, gun pods, and nuclear weapons. Reconnaissance, targeting, electronic countermeasures and baggage pods, and external fuel tanks may also be carried.
...

Yes, but you also need to know the weight capacities of the individual pylons. On the F-4E, the centreline and inboard wing pylons are rated at 3,500lb each, and the outer wing pylons at 2,240lb each, so none of them could carry a 6,000lb store.

[Charlie_c67]

Ah but this is where the magic of Whifworld enters:

"As part of a refit in the mid 80's, a select number of Phantom's had all pylons deleted save the two inboard wing and centreline ones, which were strengthened significantly. This was in part to allow larger fuel tanks to be carried, lengthening the patrol time when in the Air Defence role, but also to allow carriage of the newly developed 6,000lb MPP which was part of the regional fight against the scourge of drugs." und so weiter... 

[Weaver]

Ah but this is where the magic of Whifworld enters:

"As part of a refit in the mid 80's, a select number of Phantom's had all pylons deleted save the two inboard wing and centreline ones, which were strengthened significantly. This was in part to allow larger fuel tanks to be carried, lengthening the patrol time when in the Air Defence role, but also to allow carriage of the newly developed 6,000lb MPP which was part of the regional fight against the scourge of drugs." und so weiter... 

Only the centreline and outer wing pylons could carry tanks and were plumbed for fuel. Ordnance on the inners had to be short because the pylon was in front of the undercarriage bay, so it couldn't carry tanks no matter what it's rating.

The easiest way to do the upgrade would be to massively strengthen the centreline hardpoint to take the MOP, since there's lots of fuselage frames to connect to and none of them are bending the wing spars. The mod would probably look like a long, thin box running fore and aft under the fuselage, connecting the pylon to more fuselage frames than the standard one. The total load shouldn't be much of an issue because the standard fuselage setup can carry 5,500lb (3,500lb on the centreline+ 4x500lb Sparrows) anyway: it's just a matter of spreading the load properly. Put fuel on the outer wing pylons if you need it. I think the inner wing pylons were detachable, so you could just take them off completely to save weight and drag.

[Charlie_c67]

Yeah, meant to highlight that the necessary strengthening to take the MOP would be the centreline pylon. My bad 

[PR19_Kit]

Put wings on the MOP and tow it behind the 'bomber'.   

Like the Luftwaffe wanted to with the Me-262.

[Later] Oh yes Chris, I've found a box large enough to take that RF-84F kit, it'll be on the way in a day or so.