Handley-Page Halifax help, please.

[kitbasher]

I'm not very well up on everything Handley-Page Halifax, but I am aware of the multitude of variants, sub-variants and the airframe permutations associated with each.

I had an uncle who was a Lancaster tail gunner in WW2 and another who was an Anson WOp (both survived the war).  In the last few weeks I've become aware of a 2nd cousin once removed who was shot down and killed in 1943 aged 22 while flying in 58 Sqn Halifax II Series I BB277 (he was a Sgt pilot).  According to Wikipedia (I know...) the Halifax II Series I introduced a 2-gun dorsal turret (EDIT: similar to that fitted to RAF Hudsons) instead of waist guns but retained the nose and dorsal turrets and the triangular fin/rudder assembly. 

However, the Halifax Mk.II Series IA was fitted with a moulded Perspex nose that became standard upon future Halifax variants, a 4-gun dorsal turret similar to that used in the Boulton Paul Defiant, and squared fin/rudder assembly.

So, some assumptions:
- BB277 would have been finished in Coastal Command colours.
- research suggests it wasn't converted to GR.II (have seen a list of serial numbers for the conversions - can't remember where - and BB277 isn't among them)

and the inevitable questions:
- is Wikipedia correct?
- I've done some online research already and all sources point to BB277 being a Halifax II Series I, but can anyone cast further light on whether that was the case or whether at the time of its loss it had been converted to a B.II Series IA?
- would it have been fitted with H2S (research so far suggests unlikely)?

EDIT: Owen Thetford's 'Aircraft of the RAF Since 1918 (8th Ed) states that when 58 Sqn re-equipped with Halifaxes in late 1942/early 1943 they received some B.II Series IAs, but I've no means of verifying that.

Next steps:
- I'll use the Halifax 'Warpaint' as an initial point of reference and am delving the internet (not least ww2aircraft.net) for more info, but can anyone recommend good sources of info for the Halifax?

I guess you've guessed where this is going!  Two kit options - the old Matchbox/Revell Halifax or the more recent Revell Halifax B.I/B.II/GR.II (cat no 04670-0389).  The latter is of course a much more refined kit but not without its faults, some of which seem challenging to correct without the Freightdog resin sets.  In some respects (https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234910320-172-merlin-engined-halifax-corrections/) the 'new' Revell kit appears to be more problematic that the old Matchbox kit.  Any one built either or both of them?

Many thanks in advance for responses.

[jcf]

Checking Handley Page Aircraft since 1907 (Barnes, Putnam) and Halifax (Merrick, Ian Allan) BB277 was from the second block of Halifax II (BB236-285) built by the London Passenger Transport Board (London Aircraft Production Group), Contract No. B124357/40, req. HA1/E11/39. First delivery was 10 January 1942, BB189 of the first block (BB189-BB223).

BB277 was not one of the airframes converted to the 1A standard, all of those conversions were Rootes built airframes.

Installation of ASV Mk III search radar started in February 1943 and most aircraft were equipped with it by May 1943.

Evidently the LPTB(LAPG) built Halifaxes were not popular with the aircrews. No references as to why this was so.

No.58(GR) Squadron (BY)
St. Eval, Cornwall converted from
Whitley to Halifax 12/1942.
To Holmsley South 07/1943.
To St. Davids 12/1943.
To Stornoway, Outer Hebrides 09/1944.
Converted to GR Mk III 04/1945.
Disbanded 25/05/1945.

[kitbasher]

Cheers Jon, very helpful.

[jcf]

You're welcome.

[jcf]

The RAF Command site losses database gives a date of 24 March 1943 for the loss of BB277. 58 Squadron was still at St.Eval at the time.

[kitbasher]

Cheers Jon.  Yes, seen that.  The St Eval reference stands out as I've seen mention of 58 Sqn being at  Holmsley South late 1942/early 1943 upon/following conversion to Halifaxes.

Discovered yesterday that the squadron war diaries held by The National Archives have been digitised so will be diving into them over the next few days.

[kitbasher]

Downloaded 58 Sqn ORBs and 58 Sqn was very definitely at Holmsley South when BN277 was lost.  The Dec 42 ORB states that air party arrived there 2 Dec 42, the rear party 30 Dec 42, by which time conversion to Halifax IIs had begun.

Sgt Thomas Miles (my 2nd cousin once removed) joined 58 Sqn on 3 Oct 42, flew his only Whitley sortie on 11 Dec 42 (Z9527 'X').  There's no indication in the ORBs as to when Thomas converted to Halifaxes but it must have been before the end of Jan 43 as there was no operational flying that month - I must assume the bulk of the conversion work happened then.

His first operational Halifax flight (over Biscay) was 25 Feb 43 (BB262 'O'), the second 21 Mar 43 (BB276 'H').  So he was killed on his third operational Halifax sortie. 

[NARSES2]

His first operational Halifax flight (over Biscay) was 25 Feb 43 (BB262 'O'), the second 21 Mar 43 (BB276 'H').  So he was killed on his third operational Halifax sortie. 

When you read something like that reinforces why we hold 2 minutes silence every November 

[kitbasher]

Indeed it does.  Yet to confirm his date of birth but indications are that it was about 10 days before my dad in May 21.

[jcf]

Interestingly in April BB276 was involved in a running fight with seven Ju 88 that lasted for 47 minutes. The Ju 88s kept up a series of attacks, attacking from the sides one at a time while the others made feints to try to draw the gunner's fire. They only got in close three times and each time were driven off by the turret gunners. Two Ju 88 left trailing smoke, one broke off after bullet strikes were observed on an engine cowling and the remaining four flew away. When examined after returning to base only one bullet hole through the tailplane and three dents on one of the turret fairings were found.

[Freightdog862]

I would agree although the Revell tooled kit is far superior on detail and finesse, the wings are riddled with problems which need major surgery to correct. My sets helped to mask the shape issues, but the width of the nacelles and as a result over sized propellers can only really be fixed (mostly) using the Aeroclub injection moulded conversion, now very hard to find. So for a more straightforward build, I'd go with the Matchbox tooling as a simpler and cheaper option.

That said, if you go down the Revell route, John Adams did pass me all the remaining stock for his Halifax sets, so I'd happily sell you a set (I have two or three left). My plan was to convert these into a resin conversion, should the kit make a re-appearance, which isn't likely at the moment.

If you go down the Matchbox route, the kits are easier to find for half the price, and I think I might have some of the resin radiators (originally white metal) in the box of Halifax bits that John passed me.

Colin   

[PR19_Kit]

I'm so pleased you seem to have taken over the Aeroclub mantle Colin. 

We Whiffers NEED people like you on our side. 

[Freightdog862]

I'm so pleased you seem to have taken over the Aeroclub mantle Colin. 

We Whiffers NEED people like you on our side. 

Sadly, only some bits, but hopefully a few more from John Adams soon.

Colin

[kitbasher]

Hi Colin.  Yes the Matchbox route does seem the easier option (plus a Hudson for the turret).  Unless I go the mail order route I'll be on the lookout for pre-loved Matchbox Halifaxes and Airfix Hudsons at Telford.

Meanwhile the Warpaint Halifax bookazine is on order and all of the Halifax-related West Sussex Library Service books have been borrowed.  Some info in each about 58 Sqn Halifax B.II series IA, GR.IIs and GR.Vs but nowt about B.II series Is!

And struggling to avoid falling into a 58 Sqn Whitley GR.VII-shaped modelling rabbit hole!

[Freightdog862]

I can save you the trouble of the Hudson, Aeroclub did a injection/metal/vac Boulton Paul Type C turret (Aeroclub item V078, for Halifax/Hudson), I have a spare one, and this is one of the other items I'm waiting to be passed by John (the vacform glazing master, that is), so  I can put it back in production.

I recently picked a Matchbox kit in the Revell box (kit 04394, it's in a much smaller box than the newer 2011 kit) at a show for £20, and an earlier Matchbox one on ebay for £30 (impulse buy!). I have every intention of building them, along with cross kitting a third Matchbox fuselage with some Airfix Mk.III wings (and Aeroclub resin engines) at some point. Of course, the Halifax is ripe for an Airfix new tool, especially as I've invested in too many old Matchbox kits!

I recently bought the Wingleader photo archive 38 on the Halifax (Pt.2) which covers the later Merlin machines, these are superb photo references for £20 each, but you probably need Pt.1. 
 
Colin