avatar_TallEng

Two seat Spitfires

Started by TallEng, July 07, 2025, 01:35:40 PM

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TallEng

Inspired by the release by Airfix of a Spitfire Tr. 9 (which sadly) is in 1/48th but in the hopes that it "might" get shrunk to 1/72 I've started this thread.
A quick perusal of "Spitfire, the history" reveals that the RAF/air ministry saw very little to no need for a two seat Spitfire, despite Vickers and Jeffery Quills best efforts.
With that in mind, I've put pen to paper:
the Mk VIII trainer was demonstrated several times to encourage sales and in March 1949 Fighter Command expressed an interest in the Spitfire trainer as it was thought that the Auxiliary Squadrons would need it as a stepping stone between the Harvard and Spitfire 22. It was thought approximately 20 aircraft would be needed...
However no orders were issued.
Despite this Vickers arranged to buy from the MAP ( Ministry of Aircraft production I believe?) a number of redundant Spitfires, Mark numbers not specified in the book but presumably Mk IX? (I guess Mk XVI as well as there's a general arrangement drawing in the book.) With the aim of refurbishing and converting them to trainers.
Interestingly when Jeffery Quill was discussing supply of the Spitfire trainer with RAF reserve command he talks of Mk IXs and XVIs at various MUs and specifically mentions that they are of the "high back" configuration which would be better than the "cut away fuselage and tear drop hood as aircraft in this modification state would be more difficult and expensive to convert to trainers.
Which makes the next bit a trifle confusing....
The Indian Air Force purchased 10 what were now called Spitfire T. 9 trainers, however in a conversation with Jeffery Quill whilst he was visiting a Indian Air Force maintenance depot he understood that 42 Spitfire XVIII* had been purchased and that the last four of these would be converted to trainers.
* the XVIII or Spitfire 18 was Griffon engined and had the cutaway fuselage and tear drop hood. Apparently Supermarine did some drawings under the type number 518.

T.9 Users = Holland, India and the Irish air corps.
Other possible users mentioned in passing: Denmark, Norway (who also enquired about converting some trainers to target tugs)
Argentina (10) and Iraq (6) both cancelled.

So, some thoughts:
If a Spitfire trainer is thought to be necessary for the RAuxAF would it not be better that the trainer was more representative of the Spitfires (F.21/F.22) then currently serving with the RAuxAF? which kind of suggests at least a Griffon powered airframe (Mk XVIII/F.18)? If a Griffon Spitfire trainer is required. (Possibly tying in with the Indian Air Force order for F.18s)
However this then brings up the alleged problem that the cut away fuselage and tear drop canopy style of Spitfire would be more "difficult and expensive" to convert.

A possible alternative would be to use the PR.XIX as a basis for the conversion (presuming enough (20/30?) spare airframes were available) Good things about this Would be that the PR.XIX airframes are all "high backs" and thanks to the PR Spitfire type wing would have a relatively good internal fuel load, which one thinks would be handy in a training aircraft.
Negatives no provision for guns...

However what about the F.21? As a trainer?  Very much more representative of what the RAuxAF was flying...

Thoughts?

Regards
Keith
The British have raised their security level from "Miffed" to "Peeved". Soon though, security levels may be raised yet again to "Irritated" or even "A Bit Cross". Londoners have not been "A Bit Cross" since the Blitz in 1940 when tea supplies ran out for three weeks

PR19_Kit

It would be more expensive to convert low back models, but not difficult as all the drawings would exist already for the two seat high backs, they'd already done it.
Kit's Rule 1 ) Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage
Kit's Rule 2) The backstory can always be changed to suit the model

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

Regards
Kit

kitbasher

What If? & Secret Project SIG member.
On the go: Beaumaris/Battle/Bronco/Barracuda/F-105(UK)/Flatning/Hellcat IV/Hunter PR11/Ice Cream Tank/JP T4/Jumo MiG-15/P1103 (early)/P1127/P1154-ish/Phantom FG1/I-153/Sea Hawk T7/Spitfire XII/Spitfire Tr18/Twin Otter/FrankenCOIN/Frankenfighter/Zero

PR19_Kit

Hmmm, after just having built my PRXI(T), perhaps I should think of doing a PRXIX(T) as well.

My Dad always said the PRXIXs were the devil to convert onto after getting used to a PRXI.
Kit's Rule 1 ) Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage
Kit's Rule 2) The backstory can always be changed to suit the model

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

Regards
Kit