F-8S "Super Crusader" - Ultimate USN Dogfighter - Done P. 6

[Spino]

I mounted the starboard Sidewinder rail, and as I suspected there is no way to fit two of them with the AIM-7 in place, otherwise one of the 'winders will be in the way of the AIM-7 ejecting from its trough.  That's okay though, my supply of Sidewinders doesn't seem to be quite as extensive as I originally thought.  Here you can see what I'm dealing with.

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And here's some photos of the bulge for the refueling probe, countermeasure dispensers, and a random centerline bump that I thought was appropriate.

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So as of right now the armament for this build is going to be two AIM-9Ms, three AIM-7Ps, and of course the 20mm Vulcan.  If I decide to add wing pylons, another pair of Sidewinders may get added if I can scrape them up, or maybe a fourth AIM-7 on one side and a pair of Sidewinders on the other.  Could also do drop tanks in theory, maybe since this bird is bigger it gets a pair of Aero 1Ds and an extra pair of wing pylons (for a total of four) that can carry AIM-7s or AIM-9s.  Not sure though, that would be a lot of weight for the VI wing system to handle.  As cool as it would be, this isn't an A-7 after all, so keeping things light makes the most sense I think.

[PR19_Kit]

Nothing like a 'random centreline bump' to confuse the JMNs.   

[Spino]

Nothing like a 'random centreline bump' to confuse the JMNs.   

Can always chalk it up to either a RHAW antenna or something radio-related...

Speaking of RHAW gear, this thing is now all decked out with five antennas.  The centerline bulge on top of course, along with receivers in the tail, wingtips, and now under the fuselage with an ALQ-100 (which by the way is paired with an F-14A/B style TCS).  Backstory on this one is gonna be complicated!

[perttime]

Nothing like a 'random centreline bump' to confuse the JMNs.   

Can always chalk it up to either a RHAW antenna or something radio-related...
...

It might be something so secret that you cannot go into details about it 

[Spino]

It might be something so secret that you cannot go into details about it 

That too 

Working on the backstory for this thing is getting interesting.  It's gonna go something along the lines of "USN gets the F-4 but also needs a fleet defender for the Essex carriers, so they pull a Super Hornet-style stunt by convincing McNamara that the Crusader III is just an improved variant of the existing Crusader, it goes into production, sees combat in Vietnam, and a couple of improved versions get produced due to superior results against MiGs, the F-8S being the last of these".  I think I'm also going to assume that the F401 gets through development and the F-8S gets that in addition to the other changes I'm making, so it'll be flying alongside F401-powered F-14s and Convair 201s, of course being a real handful for those aircraft to beat in a dogfight and maybe even getting to see Desert Storm.

[thundereagle1997]

An armored unobstructed 360 degree bubble canopy would improve visibility
especially on the approach on landing especially on an aircraft carrier.

[Spino]

An armored unobstructed 360 degree bubble canopy would improve visibility
especially on the approach on landing especially on an aircraft carrier.

No can do lol.  Besides, the closest we have to that is the DAS on the F-35, and that's far newer than the time period I'm setting this plane in.  Improved view over the nose will come in the form of that TCS chin pod if I decide to keep it.

Going to have another go at printing the pilot with the VTAS helmet today, we'll see how that works out for me.

[Spino]

F-8S "Super Crusader" Backstory
While the F-4H-1 Phantom was the US Navy's preferred option for fleet defense in the early 1960s, it was considered too large and too heavy for the WWII-era Essex class carriers that were still in service in some numbers.  The Navy recognized that these ships also needed better defensive capabilities against Soviet bombers than what the existing F-8 Crusader could provide.  Fortunately, the F-4H-1's competitor, the XF8U-3 "Crusader III" was based on the existing F-8 design (albeit scaled up and sharing few parts), so it was pitched to Congress and SECDEF McNamara as merely an improved variant of an existing aircraft.  Although reluctant, the go-ahead for production was given due to the extended service life of the Essex class carriers.  Thus, the F8U-3 (later F-8F) Crusader III was born. 

Getting the Crusader III approved by "Mac the Knife" was only half the battle though, the other half was figuring out how to reduce pilot workload to an acceptable level for employing the AIM-7 missiles that were its primary armament.  The initial production version was essentially an XF8U-3 with all combat systems installed and included the Crusader's armament of four Mk-12 cannon and AIM-9 Sidewinder missiles in addition to the three AIM-7s.  With a single crew member having to manage three independent weapons systems through 1950s-era interfaces, flying and fighting in the Crusader III was considerably more difficult than its predecessor.  Vought was able to partially mitigate this by installing an autopilot that could be engaged when the pilot steadied the aircraft on an intercept course and needed to focus on the AIM-7 weapons system, but the high pilot workload meant that only one or possibly two AIM-7s could realistically be fired under real-world conditions before minimum range was reached on a target closing head-on.  However, this was considerably better than the smaller Crusader, which needed to close to visual range and a tail-chase position to effectively use its weapons.

F-8Fs deployed on Essex class carriers in May 1962, replacing F-8As and F-8Bs in their air wings.   Some aircraft flew missions in support of the naval blockade during the Cuban Missile Crisis, though the lack of strike capability made them of limited use should war break out.  Their baptism of fire came in 1965 when F-8Fs flying escort for a strike package from USS Hancock downed a pair of VPAF MiG-17s.  One of the Crusader IIIs scored a hit on the lead MiG with an AIM-7, causing the VPAF wingman to lose his nerve and attempt to turn and escape at low altitude.  This however put the second MiG in a perfect tail-chase with another Crusader III.  This aircraft fired two AIM-9B Sidewinders without a hit (due to poor seeker performance in look-down situations), but the pilot lit his afterburner and rapidly overhauled the subsonic MiG before destroying it with cannon fire.

As the conflict progressed, reliability issues with both the AIM-7 Sparrow and the Mk-12 cannon manifested, but this played into the F-8F's flexibility.  Initially, combat missions were flown with a full load of three AIM-7s and two AIM-9s, but as the Sparrow's limitations became all too apparent, the F-8F's loadout began to evolve.  By 1967, a typical combat load for the Crusader III was a single AIM-7 under the fuselage and four improved AIM-9Ds.  These missiles were mounted on the Y-pylons carried over from the F-8D/E and precluded the carriage of AIM-7s on the dedicated fuselage cheek stations.  This loadout flexibility, combined with the F-8F's high performance, smokeless engine, and the ACM training inherent in the F-8 community made the Crusader III the best air superiority fighter of the conflict.  It was in fact so effective that an improved variant was developed instead of upgrading older Crusaders.  This aircraft, the F-8H, featured an improved radar and missile control system (designated AWG-7B, but was essentially an AWG-10/APG-59 combination with a smaller antenna to fit in the Crusader III's nosecone) and a pair of wing pylons capable of carrying 4000lbs of stores.  The folding ventral fins were also replaced with smaller, fixed fins since the fin folding system added weight and was one of the first things to fail when the aircraft sustained damage.  The large fins on the F-8F had resulted in many fins being jettisoned to allow safe landing and, occasionally, an aircraft written off due to the fins not retracting before landing and going unnoticed by an unsuspecting pilot.  While many F-8Hs were new-build aircraft, some 100 F-8Fs were upgraded to F-8H standard.  The F-8H entered fleet service in 1968, partially as a response to the growing threat of VPAF MiG-21s.  These aircraft saw combat in Linebacker and Linebacker II, flying both escort and ground attack missions along with the occasional MiGCAP.  In combat against VPAF MiG-21s, the F-8H won handily thanks to its combination of high performance, dogfight-optimized weapons, and pilots who knew how to properly use it.  Although some 23 aircraft were lost to ground fire and SAMs, only one Crusader III was downed by a MiG-21.
The end of the Vietnam conflict and the retirement of the Essex class carriers nearly spelled the end of the F-8 community, but the Crusader III still had one trick up its sleeve.  Unlike the outdated F-8Es and F-8Js, the F-8H was still a relatively new aircraft with significant capabilities.  This was recognized by the French, who ordered their own version of the aircraft to replace their existing Crusader fleet.  Meanwhile, the Crusader III continued in limited service in the US.  Its high performance and relatively capable radar made it a good stand-in for the brand-new MiG-23 in US Navy aggressor squadrons (though the MiG proved to be significantly less maneuverable).  Some USMC squadrons also adopted the type as a replacement for their outdated F-8Js when it became clear that the F-14 would not include air-to-ground stores management systems.  The VTAS helmet-mounted sight was also integrated with improved versions of the AIM-9 Sidewinder.  However, the type seemed to have very little room for further improvement, and by the early 1980s, the end seemed near once again for the Crusader III.

Issues with the adoption of the Convair Model 201 as the Navy's new lightweight fighter/strike aircraft resulted in the revival of the F-8 one final time.  Vought had pitched an improved version of the F-8H as a competitor to the Convair aircraft, and had even gotten as far as rebuilding one F-8H with an F401 engine, APG-65 radar, a revised cockpit with multifunction displays and an advanced HUD replacing many analog gauges, ALQ-100 electronic warfare system, an AAX-1 TCS under the intake, support for more modern air-to-ground weapons, and a single M61 Vulcan cannon in place of the four Mk-12s.  Designated YF-8S, this aircraft demonstrated significant improvements in both air-to-air and air-to-ground capability.  The avionics improvements particularly improved the BVR capabilities of the aircraft.  No longer did F-8 pilots have just one chance to shoot an AIM-7 in a head-on engagement – now they could lock a target and engage it easily without ever even seeing it.  The TCS also improved pilot visibility during carrier landings, which had been a significant issue for the Crusader III in spite of its variable incidence wing.  With all the teething issues of the Convair F/A-17 (Model 201), the Navy was interested enough to order conversion of all new-built F-8Hs to F-8S standard.  Many of these aircraft were pulled out of the boneyard for refurbishment with the new engine and systems.  Dubbed "Super Crusader", the F-8S served on US Navy carriers and in the hands of the USMC until 1995, when it was finally replaced by a combination of F/A-17s and F-14Ds.  Super Crusaders were responsible for two of the Navy's four MiG kills during Desert Storm, downing one MiG-23 with an AIM-7 and a MiG-21 with a Sidewinder.  Although officially retired from US Navy service in 1995 and USMC service in 1997, some aircraft continued in USN aggressor roles until the mid-2000s.

[Spino]

After having written that backstory I now feel like doing two more of these things - one as an F-8H and one as a two-seat version or maybe a recon bird!

PSR is nearly done, just need to fine tune the bulge for the refueling probe and add a blade antenna or two.  Also started working on the cockpit a bit, got to find myself an ejector seat model to print though.

[PR19_Kit]

A BLINDINGLY goof backstory there. 

[Rheged]

This is a superb piece of backstory writing................and the model's looking good too.

[Spino]

A BLINDINGLY goof backstory there. 

This is a superb piece of backstory writing................and the model's looking good too.

Thanks!  It's looking even better now with all the extra bits fitted.  Just have to PSR the tailhook attachment point a bit and add the wing pylons and then she'll be ready for painting.  But what to put on them?  I only have two Sidewinders, and I really hate to put drop tanks or air-to-ground weapons of any kind on a plane like this.  Maybe I can print a couple more Sidewinders.  Or maybe I'll just leave off the wing pylons, there are plenty of photos out there of Crusaders without them.

I have a bigger issue though.  The cockpit floor is too high!  But if I try to cut it out I'll probably end up going right through the intake duct (geometry on that is probably a little off too!)  Guess it'll have to be shortened...

[Spino]

Well, after some careful work with a Dremel and a spiral bit, the cockpit floor has been lowered sufficiently, and the resulting hole in the intake duct has been plugged.  Printed a Martin Baker seat using a model I found online, and glued that into position along with the instrument panel cover.  Painted the seat and the cockpit interior as well, though it still needs a HUD and instrument panel.  Those are both going to be relatively basic, but enough for a scratchbuild like this.  Weapons are fitted, I think I'm going to omit the wing pylons on this one.  The model is also now its intended color.  Just have to add the pilot, instrument panel/HUD, canopy, and decals, then it'll be time for weathering...

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[PolluxDeltaSeven]

It might be something so secret that you cannot go into details about it 

That too 

Working on the backstory for this thing is getting interesting.  It's gonna go something along the lines of "USN gets the F-4 but also needs a fleet defender for the Essex carriers, so they pull a Super Hornet-style stunt by convincing McNamara that the Crusader III is just an improved variant of the existing Crusader, it goes into production, sees combat in Vietnam, and a couple of improved versions get produced due to superior results against MiGs, the F-8S being the last of these".  I think I'm also going to assume that the F401 gets through development and the F-8S gets that in addition to the other changes I'm making, so it'll be flying alongside F401-powered F-14s and Convair 201s, of course being a real handful for those aircraft to beat in a dogfight and maybe even getting to see Desert Storm.

That's really interesting !

Depending on the timeline of the first operational Crusader III in your story, we can easily imagine it selected by the French Navy, and even the Royal Navy.
With such a high performance light fighter in its hands, the British may even chose to replace the cancelled CVA-01 project with a light CATOBAR carrier around 35000t, instead of the 22000t Invincible class.
Then, why not imagining it in operational service with the Royal Australian Navy too, and maybe other countries than needed something more than the F-5, but less than the F-4 for their air forces ?

With a larger customer base, the aircraft may stay in operational service far longer (just look at the French Crusader IRL !!), allowing it to receive more comprehensive modernisation I suppose.

Only point that I would change from your story: maybe just erase the Convair 201 ? I love the Convair 200/201, but if it entered service, it would probably have eaten all the Crusader III market shares, and be used in US service to replace the Super Crusader (as there is probably not enough place for two supersonic light fighters in the US Navy)

A BLINDINGLY goof backstory there. 

This is a superb piece of backstory writing................and the model's looking good too.

Thanks!  It's looking even better now with all the extra bits fitted.  Just have to PSR the tailhook attachment point a bit and add the wing pylons and then she'll be ready for painting.  But what to put on them?  I only have two Sidewinders, and I really hate to put drop tanks or air-to-ground weapons of any kind on a plane like this.  Maybe I can print a couple more Sidewinders.  Or maybe I'll just leave off the wing pylons, there are plenty of photos out there of Crusaders without them.

I have a bigger issue though.  The cockpit floor is too high!  But if I try to cut it out I'll probably end up going right through the intake duct (geometry on that is probably a little off too!)  Guess it'll have to be shortened...

This beast is an interceptor, so go intercept !!

Meaning either 3 Sparrow + 2 Sidewinder only, for less drag, better speed and climbing capability.
Or the same configuration but with an extra couple of Sparrow under the wings for better punch.
(Couple of drop tanks for loitering before interception could also be an option, but I understand why you want to avoid "breaking" the beautiful lines of the plane)

But I don't thing it needs more Sidewinders. It still got two of them + a mighty Vulcan guns for the targets it can't destroy at longer range, and for me it's enough for such a plane.

[Spino]

Yes it's got 3x Sparrow and 2x Sidewinder, I see no need to add the wing pylons.  Besides, I'm out of Sidewinders for the moment.  I can understand where you're coming from with erasing the Convair, but that airplane gave me the excuse I needed to get rid of the F/A-18 Hornet.  I know this is what-if and I can pretty much do what I like here, but I feel compelled to try to keep it somewhat realistic.  I suppose it's not out of the question to erase both the Convair and the Hornet, maybe I'll rework the backstory a little.  Although, then I might be tempted to print another one and build it as an ultra-modernized variant with AIM-120s or something!