Author Topic: An-124 replacement  (Read 433 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Hobbes

  • Stores peanuts in his mailbox
  • What-IF SIG
  • Needs A Life Outside What-If
  • *****
  • Posts: 6617
    • Acme Engineering
An-124 replacement
« on: November 27, 2020, 09:36:25 am »
After the recent An-124 emergency landing due to an uncontained engine failure, the Volga-Dnepr fleet has been grounded, leading to discussion of a replacement.

Airbus has their Belugas, which could take over part of the An-124 market, albeit only the light-but-voluminous payloads.
Antonov has imploded and is unlikely to be able to fund major changes to the An-124.


I've been thinking of a few scenarios:
1. Volga-Dnepr finds a way to fund re-engining its An-124. RR Trents maybe?
2. Antonov is bought by Airbus, which starts an improvement program. An-124 fuselage with Airbus electronics and an A-380 wing.
3. Airbus ignores Antonov and designs a new high-wing heavy freighter, again around the A-380 wing.

I may end up buying an A-380...

Offline PR19_Kit

  • Closeted Take That fan
  • What-IF SIG
  • Needs A Life Outside What-If
  • *****
  • Posts: 36408
  • Whiffing since the 70s
Re: An-124 replacement
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2020, 09:44:32 am »

I've been thinking of a few scenarios:
1. Volga-Dnepr finds a way to fund re-engining its An-124. RR Trents maybe?


They should have done that ages ago, but as usual NIH Rules OK.

That's 'Not Invented Here....'
Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

Regards
Kit

Offline kitnut617

  • That's got his tum rumbling already just by the sound of it.
  • Needs A Life Outside What-If
  • *****
  • Posts: 12922
Re: An-124 replacement
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2020, 10:07:54 am »

I've been thinking of a few scenarios:
1. Volga-Dnepr finds a way to fund re-engining its An-124. RR Trents maybe?


They should have done that ages ago, but as usual NIH Rules OK.

That's 'Not Invented Here....'

Considering C-5's are now powered by the CF6-80 engine, re-engining  the An 124 would be a no brainer IMO.
If I'm not building models, I'm out riding my dirtbike

Online Mossie

  • Twiglet doctor
  • What-IF SIG
  • Needs A Life Outside What-If
  • *****
  • Posts: 14125
  • Don't laugh at his mule
Re: An-124 replacement
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2020, 10:37:56 am »
Takes a trip to Davis Months and buys surplus C-5s?
I don't think it's nice, you laughin'. You see, my mule don't like people laughin'. He gets the crazy idea you're laughin' at him. Now if you apologize, like I know you're going to, I might convince him that you really didn't mean it.

Offline joncarrfarrelly

  • Bertie Bassett
  • What-IF SIG
  • Needs A Life Outside What-If
  • *****
  • Posts: 7918
  • Turn that Gila-copter down!
Re: An-124 replacement
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2020, 12:20:49 pm »

I've been thinking of a few scenarios:
1. Volga-Dnepr finds a way to fund re-engining its An-124. RR Trents maybe?


They should have done that ages ago, but as usual NIH Rules OK.

That's 'Not Invented Here....'

Nawp, it's a matter of NMH, No Money Here.
 ;D

Converting the An-124 to a Trent, or any other US/UK/EU engine would be an extremely
expensive proposition and it's very likely that they'd never recoup the cost. Re-engining
in the real world isn't very straightforward.

The 747-400 was offered with GE, Pratt and RR engines and they each had different
mounting and systems interface requirements. The 400 could be optioned with wiring,
fuel and pneumatic system provisions for any two, or three, meaning that the unused
system(s) was in place but nothing was connected. On the wiring side the wires were
not connected at the circuit breaker panels and the breakers themselves had lockout
rings. This did of course cost more and imposed weight penalties.

I know this because the engine and strut wiring were among the systems for which I
had responsibilty my first go round in 747 Wire Design.

There's absolutely no way to use an A380 wing on an An-124 fuselage and it would be
an order of magnitude more expensive than a re-engining as it would basically be an
all-new design and require new aircraft certification.

Airbus abandoned the A380 freighter concept a long time ago because the necessary
changes to the base design were going to be extensive and complicated, thus very
expensive.
“Conspiracy theory’s got to be simple.
Sense doesn’t come into it. People are
more scared of how complicated crap
actually is than they ever are about
whatever’s supposed to be behind the
conspiracy.”
-The Peripheral, William Gibson 2014

Offline joncarrfarrelly

  • Bertie Bassett
  • What-IF SIG
  • Needs A Life Outside What-If
  • *****
  • Posts: 7918
  • Turn that Gila-copter down!
Re: An-124 replacement
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2020, 12:54:29 pm »
Considering C-5's are now powered by the CF6-80 engine, re-engining  the An 124 would be a no brainer IMO.

Paid for by the US taxpayer, not a private company with a fraction of the resources.
“Conspiracy theory’s got to be simple.
Sense doesn’t come into it. People are
more scared of how complicated crap
actually is than they ever are about
whatever’s supposed to be behind the
conspiracy.”
-The Peripheral, William Gibson 2014

Offline McColm

  • Needs A Life Outside What-If
  • *****
  • Posts: 8554
Re: An-124 replacement
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2020, 12:57:07 pm »
There was a proposal for a merger of the Belugas and the Airbus A380 which would result in an interesting kitbash.

Online Nick

  • What-IF SIG
  • Needs A Life Outside What-If
  • *****
  • Posts: 5334
Re: An-124 replacement
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2020, 01:21:22 pm »
Somebody could pay to finish building the An-225 that's been 70% complete for the last 30 years. China were doing that but it seems to have stalled.

TsAGi in Russia are working on an An-124-102 development to be built in Ulyanovsk. It is said to be longer and wider than the standard An-124.

Failing that there are a lot of Boeing 747s going cheap on the market right now for bulk deliveries. Not ideal for the extra-large cargo though.

Offline joncarrfarrelly

  • Bertie Bassett
  • What-IF SIG
  • Needs A Life Outside What-If
  • *****
  • Posts: 7918
  • Turn that Gila-copter down!
Re: An-124 replacement
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2020, 05:14:05 pm »
Failing that there are a lot of Boeing 747s going cheap on the market right now for bulk deliveries. Not ideal for the extra-large cargo though.

Not unless someone wants to pay to have more Drreamlifter conversions built, the
advantage being that the engineering and certification have already been done.
“Conspiracy theory’s got to be simple.
Sense doesn’t come into it. People are
more scared of how complicated crap
actually is than they ever are about
whatever’s supposed to be behind the
conspiracy.”
-The Peripheral, William Gibson 2014

Offline McColm

  • Needs A Life Outside What-If
  • *****
  • Posts: 8554
Re: An-124 replacement
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2020, 07:30:21 pm »
There's the il-106 heavy transport aircraft,  not too sure if it has been built yet as a full mockup yet as it's supposed to be the An-124 replacement  due 2024-2026.

Offline Hobbes

  • Stores peanuts in his mailbox
  • What-IF SIG
  • Needs A Life Outside What-If
  • *****
  • Posts: 6617
    • Acme Engineering
Re: An-124 replacement
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2020, 12:56:37 am »
There's absolutely no way to use an A380 wing on an An-124 fuselage and it would be
an order of magnitude more expensive than a re-engining as it would basically be an
all-new design and require new aircraft certification.

Airbus abandoned the A380 freighter concept a long time ago because the necessary
changes to the base design were going to be extensive and complicated, thus very
expensive.

That's why I posted these ideas here, in the what-if idea bank. I know they're unrealistic.

Offline zenrat

  • Needs A Life Outside What-If
  • *****
  • Posts: 19980
  • Currently on double secret probation.
Re: An-124 replacement
« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2020, 01:23:27 am »
Doesn't the An-225 use the same engines as the An-124?

Fred

Another ill conceived, lazily thought out, crudely executed and badly painted piece of half arsed what-if modelling muppetry from zenrat industries.

zenrat industries:  We're everywhere for your convenience..

Offline sideshowbob9

  • Needs A Life Outside What-If
  • *****
  • Posts: 2294
Re: An-124 replacement
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2020, 01:37:14 am »
Considering C-5's are now powered by the CF6-80 engine, re-engining  the An 124 would be a no brainer IMO.

Paid for by the US taxpayer, not a private company with a fraction of the resources.

Yeah, no-one should be using the FRED as a benchmark for financial viability!  ;D  They do the job though, clearly and they sound great in any iteration.

That said, no-one is going to pay for the development of a new aircraft type for such a small (though important) niche of the market or rather I don't see it happening. That leaves the An-124 being re-engined the only real solution. The cynic in me sees them being re-engined with a reconditioned "D-18Bis" though rather than anything more exotic.

Offline kitnut617

  • That's got his tum rumbling already just by the sound of it.
  • Needs A Life Outside What-If
  • *****
  • Posts: 12922
Re: An-124 replacement
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2020, 08:01:07 am »
Considering C-5's are now powered by the CF6-80 engine, re-engining  the An 124 would be a no brainer IMO.

Paid for by the US taxpayer, not a private company with a fraction of the resources.

Yeah, no-one should be using the FRED as a benchmark for financial viability!  ;D  They do the job though, clearly and they sound great in any iteration.

That said, no-one is going to pay for the development of a new aircraft type for such a small (though important) niche of the market or rather I don't see it happening. That leaves the An-124 being re-engined the only real solution. The cynic in me sees them being re-engined with a reconditioned "D-18Bis" though rather than anything more exotic.

I wasn't concerned about 'who' would pay for it, I just said replacing the engines is a no brainer -----
If I'm not building models, I'm out riding my dirtbike

Offline PR19_Kit

  • Closeted Take That fan
  • What-IF SIG
  • Needs A Life Outside What-If
  • *****
  • Posts: 36408
  • Whiffing since the 70s
Re: An-124 replacement
« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2020, 08:53:18 am »

Doesn't the An-225 use the same engines as the An-124?


It uses a lot of bits that are the same as the An-124, the entire outer wings and #1, #2, #5 and #6 engines, large chunks of the fuselage, including the entire nose and other bits too.

Some clown in the Airliner SIG converted a couple of -124s into a -225 a few years ago, but that was before Revell came out with their kit of the Big Mother.
Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

Regards
Kit