Author Topic: Avro Type 690 Leeds - the true story  (Read 7913 times)

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Offline PR19_Kit

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Avro Type 690 Leeds - the true story
« on: July 02, 2020, 07:33:58 am »
Contrary to previous 'historical references' posted here :- https://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php?topic=34249.msg542045#msg542045

the Type 690 Leeds was not based on the Lincoln airframe, but had more in common with the Shackleton, even though it was developed prior to the Type 696 Shackleton. Quite where the erroneous references to the Leeds' Lincoln origins came from is open to debate, but poor research would seem to be top of the list.....

Notwithstanding these errors, many of the premises in that previous diatribe are still worthy of note, mainly that the Leeds was developed as a longer range and larger capacity development of the well loved York transport. All Leeds airframes had the large double cargo doors aft of the wing on the port side, and could carry 75 passengers in the trooping role. Unlike the Yorks, no Leeds were flown by civilian airlines as the RAF found them to be too valuable, and preferred them to the later HP Hastings transport in many instances.

The Air Ministry were reluctant to consider new transport aircraft designs soon after WWII, believing that the York fleet would be able to carry out any tasks envisaged at the time, but Roy Chadwick, Avro's Chief Designer, became convinced that his designs for the Lincoln, and the later Shackleton would offer a considerable increase in performance over the York when modified to suit a cargo carrying role. Chadwick convinced Avro's board to fund a prototype of his proposed Type 684, and the Ministry of Supply approved the use of materials to build this single airframe after Chadwick's performance figures had been presented to them.

As many components of the Type 690 were common to other Avro types then in production, the build of the prototype was relatively swift, and it made its first flight on April 1st 1946, almost immediately confirming Chadwick's predictions. The Air Ministry were impressed by the real world performance of the aircraft and ordered 50 of them straight way, later on naming the type the Leeds, balancing any potential White Rose/Red Rose conflicts in the process. The first production Leeds entered service with 24 Sqdn. before the end of the year and soon became the mainstay of RAF Transport Command. The CiC, Air Marshall Sir Brian Baker, said of the Leeds 'Without the big Avro transport we wouldn't have become the long reaching Command that we are at present'.

==================================

Starting off with an AIM Avro York vacform that I won in an Airliner SIG raffle a LONG time ago, I amassed a number of bits and pieces to build a Leeds, as well as drawing up a 1/72 plan of the beast, the side view of which can be seen in the second pic below.

I kicked things off by sawing the fuselage into three parts (!) and spaced them out on top of the drawing, which enabled me to cut up some styrene extensions of the correct lengths to fill in the gaps. As I only had some 20 thou stuff with me I had to laminate the internal spacers as well as the outer skins but the whole assembly turned out quite strong as a result.

Here's the port half of the Leeds, the upper pic showing the internal spacers and the lower showing the outside, but without any of the skins added as yet.



« Last Edit: October 20, 2020, 08:25:23 pm by PR19_Kit »
Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage

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Kit

Offline The Wooksta!

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Re: Avro Type 690 Leeds - the true story
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2020, 07:51:12 am »
You may want to think about changing the type number - 684 was the type number for the Avro Alston high altitude bomber deriviative of the Lancaster.

The B.1 is here:https://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php?topic=23413.msg339502#msg339502

and the late production B.3



I think the AIM York is a repop of Contrail's second kit, which was based largely on the Matchbox Lancaster.  I had one and it was quite nice, certainly one of Contrail's better kits.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2020, 10:43:43 am by PR19_Kit »
"It's basically a cure -  for not being an axe-wielding homicidal maniac. The potential market's enormous!"

"Please dial *617 at this time"

"We're the Sweeney, son, and we haven't had any dinner."

"An inaccurate parcel of dog turds!"

The Plan:
www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,34762.0.ht

Offline PR19_Kit

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Re: Avro Type 690 Leeds - the true story
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2020, 09:45:16 am »

You may want to think about changing the type number - 684 was the type number for the Avro Alston high altitude bomber deriviative of the Lancaster.

I think the AIM York is a repop of Contrail's second kit, which was based largely on the Matchbox Lancaster.  I had one and it was quite nice, certainly one of Contrail's better kits.


I think I got the Type no. wrong right from that original thread. :(

There are no spare Avro Type Nos. at all, right from 500 where they started, to 784 where they switched to the Hawker Siddeley numbering system. The York was a 685, so I think the Leeds will be a 685b.   ;D

Data from here :- http://britishaviation-ptp.com/avro.html

Yes, my York kit looks a bit Contrailish, with pretty heavy raised panel lines, but I'll be well practiced at sanding rivets off the Shackleton bits, so sanding the panel lines off and re-scribing should be a doddle.

Yeah, right...……..  :-\
« Last Edit: July 02, 2020, 10:44:03 am by PR19_Kit »
Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

Regards
Kit

Offline The Wooksta!

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Re: Avro Type 690 Leeds - the true story
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2020, 10:11:59 am »
690 and 692 could fit, both being airliner projects.  I'd go with 690, as 688 and 689 are Tudors and have the same Shackleton style wing - IIRC, the Shackleton used the Tudor wing, rather than the Lincoln wing, something to do with airflow and extended nacelles.  The Leeds could benefit from teh Tudor research programme.  Is this going to have single or twin fin?  I can donate some Shackleton tail surfaces (Revell new tool) if the latter and can cast some Ashton ones if the former.

Looking forward to seeing the results.  It's one I would like to have done myself but I've more than enough Tudor/Lincoln/Shackleton projects as it is.  I'd like to do another Alston at some point too.

My Contrail York was donated, along with a bag of Lancaster bits I was gifted by OGL (praise be unto him), to Uncle Frank, who'd said he was thinking about getting a Mach Poo one.

The bits for the wing should be in the post tomorrow.  My foot seems to be improving.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2020, 10:44:21 am by PR19_Kit »
"It's basically a cure -  for not being an axe-wielding homicidal maniac. The potential market's enormous!"

"Please dial *617 at this time"

"We're the Sweeney, son, and we haven't had any dinner."

"An inaccurate parcel of dog turds!"

The Plan:
www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,34762.0.ht

Offline PR19_Kit

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Re: Avro Type 690 Leeds - the true story
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2020, 10:43:07 am »
I didn't look at what the types were, I just looked for a missing one.  :banghead: :banghead:

I reckon the Type 690 will fit the bill, thanks for the idea.  :thumbsup:

I'm intending it to have three fins, the outers being from the Shack III and the middle one made from bits of the York fins but broader, to match the outers. At least, that's the plan, the ide being to bamboozle the JMNs into thinking 'Why is there a York on the WhatIf Sig stand?'  ;)

Good to hear about your foot, and thanks for the wing bits too.
Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

Regards
Kit

Offline PR19_Kit

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Re: Avro Type 690 Leeds - the true story
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2020, 02:51:08 pm »
I've got the outer skin panels in place on the port side of the Leeds now, some places have FOUR layers of 20 thou!  :o

There'll be a lot of PSR to do on this of course but I won't start that until I've stretched the starboard side, done the cockpit and glued the two sides together. In the meanwhile I'm working on the wings and engines etc. and there's a LOT of them!



The upper side is the stock York fuselage, and obviously the lower one is the stretched version.
Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

Regards
Kit

Offline The Wooksta!

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Re: Avro Type 690 Leeds - the true story
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2020, 03:22:03 pm »
DON'T glue the wings together, because you need to remove plastic to get the Shackleton MR1/2 to fit and it's much easier when they're still in two halves (ask me how I know!)

It's just a couple of saw cuts, nothing too much, but it's easier.
"It's basically a cure -  for not being an axe-wielding homicidal maniac. The potential market's enormous!"

"Please dial *617 at this time"

"We're the Sweeney, son, and we haven't had any dinner."

"An inaccurate parcel of dog turds!"

The Plan:
www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,34762.0.ht

Offline PR19_Kit

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Re: Avro Type 690 Leeds - the true story
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2020, 10:06:22 am »
FROG really did go a tad OTT with the rivets on their infamous Shackleton MR3.  :o

I've spent a while sanding them off just ONE of the fins, and my sanding block's looking a little tired already. I've got the tailplane, wings and engines to go as well, so it's a good thing I've got a few more sanding blocks!

Here's the original on the left with my sanded version on the right.




And here's the real thing. That's WL790, 'Mr. McHenry', the Shackleton I've been lucky enough to be aboard a few times now.



The rivets are almost invisible!
Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

Regards
Kit

Offline The Wooksta!

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Re: Avro Type 690 Leeds - the true story
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2020, 10:20:39 am »
They rivets may pop back after the model's been primed.  I found that some years back when I did the RAAF MR3 in 2002.
"It's basically a cure -  for not being an axe-wielding homicidal maniac. The potential market's enormous!"

"Please dial *617 at this time"

"We're the Sweeney, son, and we haven't had any dinner."

"An inaccurate parcel of dog turds!"

The Plan:
www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,34762.0.ht

Offline PR19_Kit

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Re: Avro Type 690 Leeds - the true story
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2020, 10:49:05 am »
I'll bash them back in with a hammer.  ;D
Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

Regards
Kit

Offline Gondor

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Re: Avro Type 690 Leeds - the true story
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2020, 01:34:57 pm »
Maybe invest in one of the small sanding mice from B&Q or some such place, should make it easier on your elbow.

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Offline McColm

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Re: Avro Type 690 Leeds - the true story
« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2020, 10:38:28 am »
You may want to think about changing the type number - 684 was the type number for the Avro Alston high altitude bomber deriviative of the Lancaster.

The B.1 is here:https://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php?topic=23413.msg339502#msg339502

and the late production B.3



I think the AIM York is a repop of Contrail's second kit, which was based largely on the Matchbox Lancaster.  I had one and it was quite nice, certainly one of Contrail's better kits.
That's worth Whiffing  :thumbsup:

Offline PR19_Kit

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Re: Avro Type 690 Leeds - the true story
« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2020, 11:03:05 am »
HEAVY surgery's been taking place on the Shackleton bits, like sawing off the trailing edge of the wings to take the MR2 ailerons and tips to make it more 'Lincolc-like'.

Mucho sanding of the fins and one tailplane half have happened too, and they're all rivetless now. Looking at the need (It's a York derivative, it HAS to have three fins…) for a centre fin, cutting out an outline that matches the shape of the top half of the MR3 fins doesn't work at all! The centre fin is far too fat, and loses the York's essential elegance. :(

I may cut the rudder chord of the MR3 down and make a slightly wider centre fin to match that shape, the Shackleton's rudders are VERY fat compared to a Lanc, York or Lincoln.
Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

Regards
Kit

Offline McColm

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Re: Avro Type 690 Leeds - the true story
« Reply #13 on: July 04, 2020, 01:45:46 pm »
Erm, have you thought of enlarging a pair of Lincoln tail fins.  Which would be far easier to maintain the middle fins' shape  :banghead:

Offline PR19_Kit

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Re: Avro Type 690 Leeds - the true story
« Reply #14 on: July 04, 2020, 01:51:52 pm »
I did, but a) I haven't got any with me, and b) they're a bit too small.

Anyway I've done one of them now, kept the fin the same size and thinned the rudder down by about 50% and it looks a lot better.
Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

Regards
Kit