Author Topic: Handley Page HP.80N Victomic - Finished Pics Page 19.  (Read 7354 times)

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Offline zenrat

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Handley Page HP.80N Victomic - Finished Pics Page 19.
« on: June 27, 2020, 06:29:09 am »
In the 1950s nuclear power was going to change the world. It was going to provide long lasting efficient and powerful energy sources for everything from personal massagers to space ships.  Aircraft were obviously not going to be left out.
The Victomic was the result of a joint venture between aircraft manufacturer Handley Page and industrial conglomerate GEC.

« Last Edit: September 30, 2020, 04:20:03 am by zenrat »
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Offline The Wooksta!

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Re: Handley Page/GEC HP.80N Victomic
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2020, 07:03:51 am »
More points for getting this guy involved in it:



He was involved in various nuclear powered aircraft projects in the US in the 50s and 60s.
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Offline joncarrfarrelly

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Re: Handley Page/GEC HP.80N Victomic
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2020, 12:32:06 pm »
A CFR (Circulating Fuel Reactor) system like the proposed Martin 331-1?

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Offline zenrat

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Re: Handley Page/GEC HP.80N Victomic
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2020, 06:02:03 pm »
Stanton Friedman.  Noted.  Might need to add a saucer section though if he is involved.

Not sure on the mechanics of the reactor yet.  Some reading is required.
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Offline McColm

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Re: Handley Page/GEC HP.80N Victomic
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2020, 04:44:09 am »
A CFR (Circulating Fuel Reactor) system like the proposed Martin 331-1?


Looks like the Martin SeaMaster with twin engines.

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Re: Handley Page/GEC HP.80N Victomic
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2020, 05:44:04 am »

Looks like the Martin SeaMaster with twin engines.


That's because it is, but with nuclear engines.
Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage

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Re: Handley Page/GEC HP.80N Victomic
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2020, 05:59:45 am »

Not sure on the mechanics of the reactor yet.  Some reading is required.

Admittedly I've not really tried, but I've never got my brain to even begin to understand the principals of nuclear powered aircraft. Looking forward to seeing what you do with it.
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Offline zenrat

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Re: Handley Page/GEC HP.80N Victomic
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2020, 06:21:36 am »
AFAIUI instead of heating and expanding the air by mixing it with fuel and igniting it you put it in close proximity to nuclear fission.
One could either pump the nuclear fuel through the engine so the air passed over it or, direct the air through a reactor so the air passed over the fissionable material before being directed back to the engine.
Or some in-between version where something else was heated by the reaction and this third substance transferred the heat to the engines where it heated the air.  But this way strikes me as adding unnecessary losses.
The trick would be to make sure the exhaust was not too radioactive.


The Convair NB-36H did not have working nuclear engines but was at test aircraft to prove it was possible to fly around with a working nuclear reactor inside an aircraft.
It was escorted everywhere by a B-50 carrying a squad of Paratroopers whose job it was, if the Atomic Peacemaker went down, to establish an exclusion zone around the crash site.
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Re: Handley Page/GEC HP.80N Victomic
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2020, 06:52:53 am »

AFAIUI instead of heating and expanding the air by mixing it with fuel and igniting it you put it in close proximity to nuclear fission.
One could either pump the nuclear fuel through the engine so the air passed over it or, direct the air through a reactor so the air passed over the fissionable material before being directed back to the engine.
Or some in-between version where something else was heated by the reaction and this third substance transferred the heat to the engines where it heated the air.  But this way strikes me as adding unnecessary losses.
The trick would be to make sure the exhaust was not too radioactive.


One of the 'Secret Projects' books goes into various proposed nuclear engines in some detail, and both the methods you mention were planned. The second version, which may have cost more to do, but was less dangerous, was the preferred option apparently. Sadly I'm 120 miles away from my copy of the book, but I bet someone else on here has one too.
Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage

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Offline Weaver

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Re: Handley Page/GEC HP.80N Victomic
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2020, 09:30:59 pm »
That's pretty much straight up.

Primary cycle.
Pass the intake air straight through the core of the reactor.
Upside: lighter and simpler.
Downside: radioactive exhaust (this is basically Project Pluto)

Secondary cycle.
Pass the intake air through heat exchangers that are heated by fluid from the reactor cooling system.
Upside: much less radioactive exhaust (not zero though).
Downside: increased complexity and weight. How much weight depends on what the cooling fluid is:
 - water cooling = heavy but well understood
 - closed cycle air cooling = lighter but developmental and high volume
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Offline sideshowbob9

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Re: Handley Page/GEC HP.80N Victomic
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2020, 01:59:51 am »
I don't think the direct cycle would be greenlit post Windscale fire, unless you breeze that away in the backstory of course!

Is liquid sodium any lighter than water-cooled? Asking for a friend. 

This is a great idea and the Victor really lends itself to it. I could well see the Victomic towed over a specialist pit and the modular reactor assembly lowered into it for maintenance before the aircraft is towed away for a washdown on a very isolated pan.

Offline zenrat

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Re: Handley Page/GEC HP.80N Victomic
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2020, 02:24:25 am »
Radioactive exhaust?  Pah!  What's a bit of fallout between friends.
This is the period when nuclear weapons be being detonated in the outback and the radioactive dust that drifted over Australian cities wasn't seen as a problem, but as a source of usefull data.

Thanks guys.

I just looked in the Convair Advanced Projects books.  Nothing on nuclear powered aircraft in there.
There is a chapter on the NB-36H in Cold War Peacemaker but it doesn't go into detail about the theories behind powering aircraft, just about the flying reactor carrying testbed.

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Re: Handley Page/GEC HP.80N Victomic
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2020, 02:34:58 am »
After a bit of reading around, Magnox reactors in the UK were using carbon dioxide as a heat-transfer medium in the late-50s which sounds like a lightweight option. Helium sounds even better but 50s Britain would probably struggle to get hold of any serious quantity consistently, which is a strategic no-no.

To get out of the whole irradiating your base issue, you could have two conventional Avon/Sapphires for transiting and two nuclear engines once you were "out-to-sea" or even auxiliary engines.

None of this need have any bearing on your model of course Zenrat but the concept and discussion are too much fun not to play with!

Offline zenrat

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Re: Handley Page/GEC HP.80N Victomic
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2020, 02:51:10 am »
Alternatively, Pumped Fuel Reactor with molten Thorium salts piped directly from the reactor body through the engines.  Pumps etc powered by the reactor itself.
I have toyed with the idea of a mixed power aircraft.  Mainly because then I could have a reactor jettison hatch on the underside marked with yellow and black stripes (La Forge, prepare to dump the core...).
However, would a bit of radioactive exhaust at ones airfield be considered an issue?  Just tow the aircraft out to the boundary (the time taken could be used to get the reactor warmed up) and have them take off back towards the buildings.
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Re: Handley Page/GEC HP.80N Victomic
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2020, 02:56:33 am »
Alternatively, Pumped Fuel Reactor with molten Thorium salts piped directly from the reactor body through the engines.  Pumps etc powered by the reactor itself.
I have toyed with the idea of a mixed power aircraft.  Mainly because then I could have a reactor jettison hatch on the underside marked with yellow and black stripes (La Forge, prepare to dump the core...).
However, would a bit of radioactive exhaust at ones airfield be considered an issue?  Just tow the aircraft out to the boundary (the time taken could be used to get the reactor warmed up) and have them take off back towards the buildings.

Your reactor warm-up time had better be shorter than four minutes then... :o
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