Author Topic: DONE @p.4 +++ PKP Class SU-29; former DB Class V160 under Polish flag  (Read 2794 times)

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Offline Dizzyfugu

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Re: WiP +++ DB Class V160 under Polish flag (Class SU-29)
« Reply #45 on: December 15, 2019, 11:44:30 pm »
Slight heart attack on the final straight because the upper hull would not fit onto the chassis anymore!  :-\
No idea where the problem lies - I suspected the wire rails at the front and clipped them on the inside. That, and some soft force, eventually made the pieces match again, the screw in the roof now holds everything in place. Whew...

Offline NARSES2

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Re: WiP +++ DB Class V160 under Polish flag (Class SU-29)
« Reply #46 on: December 16, 2019, 06:18:27 am »
It's horrible when something like that happens. Especially when you can't work out why  :unsure:
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Offline zenrat

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Re: WiP +++ DB Class V160 under Polish flag (Class SU-29)
« Reply #47 on: December 17, 2019, 02:22:46 am »
You stripped the paint with oven cleaner?
When stripping with brake fluid it causes plasticisers to leach out of the styrene leading to shrinkage and embrittlement if parts are left in too long.
Oven cleaner is IIUC caustic soda based and could I suppose cause similar issues. 
Where is an industrial chemist when you need one...
Fred

Another ill conceived, lazily thought out, crudely executed and badly painted piece of half arsed what-if modelling muppetry from zenrat industries.

zenrat industries:  We're everywhere for your convenience..

Offline loupgarou

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Re: WiP +++ DB Class V160 under Polish flag (Class SU-29)
« Reply #48 on: December 17, 2019, 05:32:33 am »
You stripped the paint with oven cleaner?
When stripping with brake fluid it causes plasticisers to leach out of the styrene leading to shrinkage and embrittlement if parts are left in too long.
Oven cleaner is IIUC caustic soda based and could I suppose cause similar issues. 
Where is an industrial chemist when you need one...

Brake fluids and oven cleaners have a very different composition.
Brake fluids have (among other things) organic solvents that cause brittleness in plastic,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brake_fluid
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycol_ethers
while caustic soda shouldn't cause that problem. Oven cleaners can include other products or solvents, so I prefer to use products for plugged drains, the more soda the better. Even better, a drain unplugger in crystal form, or, if you can find it, pure caustic soda. Used to be available in DIY stores, but I am afraid it's now forbidden.
Owing to the current financial difficulties, the light at the end of the tunnel will be turned off until further notice.

Offline NARSES2

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Re: WiP +++ DB Class V160 under Polish flag (Class SU-29)
« Reply #49 on: December 17, 2019, 06:00:21 am »

while caustic soda shouldn't cause that problem. Oven cleaners can include other products or solvents, so I prefer to use products for plugged drains, the more soda the better. Even better, a drain unplugger in crystal form, or, if you can find it, pure caustic soda. Used to be available in DIY stores, but I am afraid it's now forbidden.

I've had used the stuff you use to clear drains as well, worked well  :thumbsup:

Didn't realise caustic soda was banned, although it doesn't surprise me. Could be nasty stuff if not handled correctly. Mind you I wonder how many containers are laying forgotten  in dark corners of garden sheds throughout Europe and beyond  ;)

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Offline Dizzyfugu

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Re: WiP +++ DB Class V160 under Polish flag (Class SU-29)
« Reply #50 on: December 17, 2019, 07:32:10 am »
Brake fluid is VERY aggressive. While effective against old paint, even thick enamel layers, it sucks out the softener from the plastic underneath, leaving it brittle and with a surface as if the parts had been sand-blasted. It's also very messy, the waste is toxic - not recommended.

Oven cleaner foam is much safer, in many respects. I use a soda-based product that creeps under anything. Normal model enamels need a week or two under a foam cover, then most of the old paint can be easily scrubbed off (under flowing water), without harm to the plastic. Even clear parts come out unharmed.

On the Märklin V 160 the method dis not work well, though, because the paint on the model was/is so robust. I guess that oven cleaner foam would have needed six weeks to work properly, if at all!

Offline Snowtrooper

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Re: WiP +++ DB Class V160 under Polish flag (Class SU-29)
« Reply #51 on: December 17, 2019, 09:07:22 am »
The soda ban must be a regional thing, because out of curiosity I just checked and caustic soda was available both in 60-90% solution and crystal form without any explosive permits or somesuch here in Finland, but only at hardware stores, not grocery stores or supermarkets. Because if it was banned, how else could you make the traditional Nordic Christmas delicacy, lutefisk? :wacko:

(Spoiler: whitefish marinated in caustic soda looks, tastes, and smells just as disgusting as you would expect. It's rather telling that it does not even have a proper English name, just the Swedish loan word. It's fortunately rarely served at your average Christmas dinner anymore, and only people over 50 seem to like it anyway, so it's about to go the way of the rotary dial telephones.)

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Re: WiP +++ DB Class V160 under Polish flag (Class SU-29)
« Reply #52 on: December 18, 2019, 06:17:48 am »
and crystal form

That's the form my Mum had it in, in a tub under the sink. Memories  <_<
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Offline Dizzyfugu

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DONE @p.4 +++ PKP Class SU-29; former DB Class V160 under Polish flag
« Reply #53 on: December 18, 2019, 06:42:55 am »
Before this drifts into ugly national cuisine discussions, here come the final beuaty shots (sort of, since these are my first attempts to create "real" Photoshop composings instead of my usual WYSIWYG/as-is shots in front of a background poster, this would not work in this case) and the story behind the PKP's class SU-29 diesel-hydraulic locomotives.




H0 scale “SU-29 018” (OnRail DH 1504, ex Deutsche Bundesbahn BR 216) in Polskie Koleje Państwowe (PKP; Polish State Railways) service, 2016 (Whif/modified Märklin 3075)
by dizzyfugu, on Flickr


Some background:
Following good performance from the pioneering diesel-hydraulic locomotive the DB Class V 80, the Deutsche Bundesbahn planned in 1953 to build several types of new diesel locomotive, primarily to replace steam powered locomotives.These were: V 60, and V 65, both shunters, the V 65.2, also for shunting as well as light freight trains, the heavy DB Class V 200, for express passenger trains, and the universal V 160 for both freight and passenger work on the main network.

The new V 160 class was a central piece in this line-up, because it would replace important steam-powered engines such as the BR 03, BR 23, BR 38.10 (former Prussian P 8 class), BR 39 (ex P 10), BR 50, BR 57 (ex G 10) and BR 78 (ex T 18). Steam heating for passenger coaches was necessary, and a top speed of 120 km/h was specified. Initially, a 1,600 hp powerplant, consisting of two engines of the same type as in the light V 80 was planned, the first newly developed diesel locomotive built for main line service by the Deutsche Bundesbahn (but only built in 10 examples). This dual engine arrangement had already been successfully introduced in the heavy V 200, which was initially powered by two 1,000 hp diesel engines. However, it was soon realized, that, if a single, high-powered engine could be used, weight, complexity and therefore maintenance and other costs would be considerably reduced. The V 160’s design was modified accordingly and a single MTU V16 four-stroke diesel engine was chosen. Both two-axle bogies were powered via drive shafts from a two speed hydraulic drive from Voith, which offered a compromise between the requested high speed for light passenger trains and the alternative reduced second gear with lower top speed, but much higher torque, for freight train service. Gears could only be switched when the locomotive was standing still, though.

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H0 scale “SU-29 018” (OnRail DH 1504, ex Deutsche Bundesbahn BR 216) in Polskie Koleje Państwowe (PKP; Polish State Railways) service, 2016 (Whif/modified Märklin 3075)
by dizzyfugu, on Flickr


H0 scale “SU-29 018” (OnRail DH 1504, ex Deutsche Bundesbahn BR 216) in Polskie Koleje Państwowe (PKP; Polish State Railways) service, 2016 (Whif/modified Märklin 3075)
by dizzyfugu, on Flickr


H0 scale “SU-29 018” (OnRail DH 1504, ex Deutsche Bundesbahn BR 216) in Polskie Koleje Państwowe (PKP; Polish State Railways) service, 2016 (Whif/modified Märklin 3075)
by dizzyfugu, on Flickr


In the spring of 1956, V 160 development began at Krupp. Welded steel components along with other lightweight materials were used to keep the axle load well below 20t, so that the V 160 could be safely operated on secondary lines. However, in the main production series of locomotives, some of the lighter weight welded construction was abandoned in favor of less expensively produced components - leading to an increase in axle weight from ~18.5 to ~20t, which was still acceptable but lowered overall production costs. This was furthermore not regarded as a major problem since the DB perspectively started to abandon branch lines, switching to more economical diesel multiple units or giving them up altogether towards the Seventies.

The first V 160 unit was delivered on 6 August 1960, with eight more following by 1962 from both Krupp and Henschel. These prototype units, due to their rounded, “busty” front end, were later to become unusual amongst the entire V 160 family and earned them the nickname “Lollo” (in allusion to Gina Lollobrigida). A final prototype V 160 010, the tenth, was manufactured by Henschel in 1963 and the first to feature the serial locomotives’ angled front end, which was inspired by the design of the super-heavy V 320 Henschel prototype.

Despite the single main engine, the V 160 was still a complex locomotive. In addition to the main engine, the V 160 featured a small, independent auxiliary diesel engine, driving a generator providing the 110 V electrical supply for lighting as well as driving an electric air compressor for the brakes. The steam heating apparatus, sourced from Hagenuk and powered by fuel oil, took up one end of the locomotive, between the engine and drivers cabin. It had the capacity to satisfactorily heat 10 coaches when the outside temperature was -10°C. For passenger train service, most V 160 locomotives were also equipped for push-pull operation, as well as for multiple working, controlled via a 36 pin control cable and respective sockets on the locomotives front ends.


H0 scale “SU-29 018” (OnRail DH 1504, ex Deutsche Bundesbahn BR 216) in Polskie Koleje Państwowe (PKP; Polish State Railways) service, 2016 (Whif/modified Märklin 3075)
by dizzyfugu, on Flickr


H0 scale “SU-29 018” (OnRail DH 1504, ex Deutsche Bundesbahn BR 216) in Polskie Koleje Państwowe (PKP; Polish State Railways) service, 2016 (Whif/modified Märklin 3075)
by dizzyfugu, on Flickr


The prototypes performed well, and volume production began, numbers V 160 011 to V 160 224 being built between 1964 and 1968 by Krupp, Henschel, KHD, Krauss-Maffei and MaK. The first V 160/216 locomotives entered service on the Hamburg to Lübeck line, working push-pull double decked passenger trains, replacing the BR 38.10 and BR 78 steam engines. The engines were also used on freight workings as well. On push-pull passenger working, the locomotives were sometimes found in the middle of the train - which facilitated easier separation of carriages en route.

By the time the 156th example was under completion, the Deutsche Bundesbahn changed its numbering system. From then on, the V 160 class were re-designated as Class (Baureihe = BR) 216, with the individual unit numbering continuing as before. Over the next decade, because of changing requirements – mostly in terms of increased power, speed as well as the requirement for electrical passenger heating – a number of related classes sprang up, the BR 210, 215, 217, 218 and 219. Although some were a little longer and carried additional components (e.g. an auxiliary jet engine), all of them were essentially based on the original V 160 and more than 800 machines of all types were eventually built.

Since the 1990s, the Bundesbahn’s BR 216 locomotives scope of work started to shift more on freight than on passenger trains because of the lack of steam-heated passenger stock. From 2000 onwards, the Deutsche Bahn AG’s BR 216 fleet was phased out, with the last locomotive being decommissioned in 2004.
Several locomotives were sold to private operators like rail construction companies and remained in frequent use, and some retired BR 216s were re-built and offered for sale, too. The first in the series of rebuilt Class 216s was called type “DH 1504” and created in 1998 by the firm 'On Rail'. Despite only little external changes, the result was an almost completely new locomotive, only the transmission, bogies and frame were saved from the original locomotive. The original V16 diesel engine with 1,370 kW (1.900 hp), was replaced with a lighter but more powerful 1500 kW (2,085 hp) V12 four-stroke diesel engine, also from MTU. On customer demand, a new electric Webasto heating system could be installed instead of the original steam heating system, making the DH 1504 capable of operating modern passenger trains, and for this purpose the units were also fitted for multiple working as well as for remote control operation (e.g. for shunting). Another option was additional ballast, so that the axle load could be kept at 20 tons for better traction. Otherwise, 18 t axle load was standard for the revamped DH 1504.


H0 scale “SU-29 018” (OnRail DH 1504, ex Deutsche Bundesbahn BR 216) in Polskie Koleje Państwowe (PKP; Polish State Railways) service, 2016 (Whif/modified Märklin 3075)
by dizzyfugu, on Flickr


H0 scale “SU-29 018” (OnRail DH 1504, ex Deutsche Bundesbahn BR 216) in Polskie Koleje Państwowe (PKP; Polish State Railways) service, 2016 (Whif/modified Märklin 3075)
by dizzyfugu, on Flickr


Since 1998, 6 of these locomotives were re-built for private operators in Germany. By late 2019, three DH 1504 locomotives were in the use of the Osthannoversche Eisenbahnen (OHE), two work for the Niederrheinische Verkehrsbetriebe (NIAG) and one for the Mindener Kreisbahnen (MKB). However, the biggest sales success for OnRail’s modernized BR 216 was the export to Poland, where the PKP (Polskie Koleje Państwowe, Polish State Railways). After its privatization in 2001, the PKP was looking for a low-cost replacement for its last ST-43 Class diesel electric freight locomotives of Romanian origin, which dated back to the 1960ies. Twenty DH 1504 locomotives for mixed duties were built by OnRail between 2001 and 2005 and entered PKP service as Class SU-29 (spalinowa uniwersalna = mixed-traffic diesel locomotive with hydraulic transmission and multiple-unit control). Their initial primary field of duty was the cross-border freight traffic on the east-west relation on the PKP “Polskie line Kolejowe”, the so-called “Niederschlesische Gütermagistrale”. Since 2005, this route had been expanded, electrified and became double-railed, so that the SU-29s gradually took over more and more passenger train duties on non-electrified major lines. The SU-29 machines are expected to remain in PKP service beyond 2030.



General characteristics:
    Gauge: 1,435 mm (4 ft 8½ in) standard gauge
    UIC axle arrangement: B´B´
    Overall length: 16,800 mm (52 ft 57⁄8 in)
    Pivot distance: 8,600 mm
    Bogie distance: 2,800 mm
    Wheel diameter (when new): 1000 mm
    Fuel supply: 3,800 l
    Service weight: 80 t

Engine:
    MTU 4000R20 V12diesel engine with 1500 kW (2,085 hp) at 1,800 RPM

Gearbox:
    Voith L821rs 2-speed gearbox

Performance:
    Maximum speed: 120 km/h (75 mph) or 80 km/h (50 mph)
    Torque: 235,2 kN




H0 scale “SU-29 018” (OnRail DH 1504, ex Deutsche Bundesbahn BR 216) in Polskie Koleje Państwowe (PKP; Polish State Railways) service, 2016 (Whif/modified Märklin 3075)
by dizzyfugu, on Flickr


H0 scale “SU-29 018” (OnRail DH 1504, ex Deutsche Bundesbahn BR 216) in Polskie Koleje Państwowe (PKP; Polish State Railways) service, 2016 (Whif/modified Märklin 3075)
by dizzyfugu, on Flickr


H0 scale “SU-29 018” (OnRail DH 1504, ex Deutsche Bundesbahn BR 216) in Polskie Koleje Państwowe (PKP; Polish State Railways) service, 2016 (Whif/modified Märklin 3075)
by dizzyfugu, on Flickr


H0 scale “SU-29 018” (OnRail DH 1504, ex Deutsche Bundesbahn BR 216) in Polskie Koleje Państwowe (PKP; Polish State Railways) service, 2016 (Whif/modified Märklin 3075)
by dizzyfugu, on Flickr


H0 scale “SU-29 018” (OnRail DH 1504, ex Deutsche Bundesbahn BR 216) in Polskie Koleje Państwowe (PKP; Polish State Railways) service, 2016 (Whif/modified Märklin 3075)
by dizzyfugu, on Flickr

A different kind of what-if project, but this has not been my first H0 scale locomotive conversion. The fictional PKP SU-29 looks a bit weird, with the garish paint scheme and the oversized headlights, but this strangeness makes this model IMHO quite convincing. The model is fully functional, even the light works well in the enlarged headlight fairings. Maybe I’ll sell it, since I do not have the appropriate model railway set at hand to effectively use it (which is also the reason for the rather limited scope of pictures of the finished item). And I am curious what people might be willing to pay for such a unique, fictional item?

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Re: DONE @p.4 +++ PKP Class SU-29; former DB Class V160 under Polish flag
« Reply #54 on: December 18, 2019, 07:47:07 am »
Images are right up there with your aircraft pic's, Dizzy. Really well done! Almost looks real in most of them! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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Offline PR19_Kit

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Re: DONE @p.4 +++ PKP Class SU-29; former DB Class V160 under Polish flag
« Reply #55 on: December 18, 2019, 10:20:03 am »
That worked out REALLY well Thomas, and the pics are magnificent, you don't have to worry about your skills in THAT area!  :thumbsup:

It maybe worth targeting Polish customers for selling the model, but I know nothing of the Polish model railway scene of course.

Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage

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Offline loupgarou

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Re: DONE @p.4 +++ PKP Class SU-29; former DB Class V160 under Polish flag
« Reply #56 on: December 18, 2019, 12:04:21 pm »
The insertion of your model in real photos came out fantastic!
Did you chose trains with a diesel of the same series as yours?
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Offline zenrat

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Re: DONE @p.4 +++ PKP Class SU-29; former DB Class V160 under Polish flag
« Reply #57 on: December 19, 2019, 02:46:14 am »
 :thumbsup:
Fred

Another ill conceived, lazily thought out, crudely executed and badly painted piece of half arsed what-if modelling muppetry from zenrat industries.

zenrat industries:  We're everywhere for your convenience..

Offline Dizzyfugu

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Re: DONE @p.4 +++ PKP Class SU-29; former DB Class V160 under Polish flag
« Reply #58 on: December 19, 2019, 02:47:03 am »
Thank you all, glad you like it - quite a special topic...

Did you chose trains with a diesel of the same series as yours?

Yes, there's always a BR 216 "behind" my model; I tried to take pics in a matching perspective, but thsi did not always work well or at all. I also found that the camera focus does not always match with the picture, so some more editing was necessary. But for a first "serious" composing attempt I am happy with the results. But I don'gt think that this will become a new standard, it was just a "Plan B" for this case.

Offline NARSES2

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Re: DONE @p.4 +++ PKP Class SU-29; former DB Class V160 under Polish flag
« Reply #59 on: December 20, 2019, 07:09:34 am »
That really has come out well Thomas  :bow:
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