Author Topic: Tornado Themed Build?  (Read 4265 times)

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Offline NARSES2

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Re: Tornado Themed Build?
« Reply #90 on: January 21, 2019, 06:53:07 am »
Right Geoff has sorted my screw up out (cheers mate  :thumbsup:) so I'll look at getting some basic organisation done tomorrow. Won't do it now as my brain is not quite in the right place - tried to get to many things done this morning and I never could multi task  :banghead:
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Offline Gondor

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Re: Tornado Themed Build?
« Reply #91 on: January 21, 2019, 10:51:46 am »
Right Geoff has sorted my screw up out (cheers mate  :thumbsup:) so I'll look at getting some basic organisation done tomorrow. Won't do it now as my brain is not quite in the right place - tried to get to many things done this morning and I never could multi task  :banghead:

That sounds like a sketch from Spitting Image..... NARSES'S Brain is missing......   ;D :rolleyes:

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Online TheChronicOne

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Re: Tornado Themed Build?
« Reply #92 on: January 21, 2019, 11:22:24 am »
One of the worst episodes of Star Trek was about that......   ;D
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Offline Weaver

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Re: Tornado Themed Build?
« Reply #93 on: January 22, 2019, 03:46:02 am »
Another idea.

Let's say the RAF had a bit more money, so when they retired the Tornado F.3 from the air defence role in favour of the Typhoon, they didn't just scrap them, but adapted some of them to two other roles:


1. Defence Suppression.

This role was trialled IRL for the 2003 Gulf War (but not, in the event used). F.3s were converted to 'EF.3s' by adding two ALARM missiles on GR.1 pylons refitted under the fuselage, and re-activating the outer wing pylons to carry BOZ and PHIMAT pods. Let's therefore say that they decided to continue this role with a more extensively adapted airframe. The radar and the remaining gun are removed and an internal ESM/ECM system fitted, with forward and side-facing aerials under the original radome (or in a new 'tin' nose with multiple dielectric panels) and with rear and side-facing aerials in a fin-top pod. The outer wing pylons could carry BOZ pods or ALARMS, and ALARM has also been carried on GR.4 inboard and Sidewinder pylons. GR.4s could also carry three ALARMs under the fuselage: I don't know why the EF.3 seemed to be restricted to two, but this could be addessed in the upgrade.


2. Reconnaissance.

The GR.1A has always been responsible for the low-level recce role and is very good at it, so they were the natural choice to carry the new RAPTOR pod in real life. However, this pod is a LOROP system who's performance is improved by being carried at altitude, and IIRC, there were some mutterings about the GR.1's altitude performance not being good enough to get the best out of it. The F.3 has better high-altitude performance and range, so the RAF takes some of the redundant airframes and converts them to carry RAPTOR instead. The airframe mods don't need to be anything like as extensive as for SEAD, but since the SEAD aircraft are getting a new EW system anyway, the RAF might plausibly go one step further and fit both EW and RAPTOR to all the retained airframes, thereby giving a homgenous and flexible force. They only had eight RAPTOR pods anyway, so separate recce and SEAD squadrons would be awkward.


I'd see an optimal force of two squadrons of dual-role SEAD/LOROP aircraft ('Tornado EFR.5s?') retained in service, with the rest of the F.3 force RTP'd (cannibalised) to provide a low-cost spares source. They could probably keep such a force going well into the 2020s, i.e. beyond the GR.4 retirement date, which might be particularly relevent since I read that the Typhoon cannot carry RAPTOR since it's physically too big for it... :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
« Last Edit: January 23, 2019, 02:25:58 am by Weaver »
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Offline NARSES2

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Re: Tornado Themed Build?
« Reply #94 on: January 22, 2019, 07:30:17 am »
Right I've moved a couple of builds to the dedicated thread and am just about to set up a discussion thread over there, so if anybody would like me to move anything they have posted here over there then let me know.

Chris
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Offline Weaver

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Re: Tornado Themed Build?
« Reply #95 on: January 23, 2019, 02:17:43 am »
Right I've moved a couple of builds to the dedicated thread and am just about to set up a discussion thread over there, so if anybody would like me to move anything they have posted here over there then let me know.

Chris

Why not move this entire thread into the dedicated board?
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Offline AS.12

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Re: Tornado Themed Build?
« Reply #96 on: January 23, 2019, 02:32:11 am »
Recce discussion reminded me that the RAF originally intended to develop a pod for the Tornado, parallel to the Italian-German pod.  The latter had a pair of Zeiss camera stations and an IR linescanner so was actually a bit more useful than the RAF's eventual GR.1A mod

Offline Weaver

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Re: Tornado Themed Build?
« Reply #97 on: January 23, 2019, 02:44:44 am »
Recce discussion reminded me that the RAF originally intended to develop a pod for the Tornado, parallel to the Italian-German pod.  The latter had a pair of Zeiss camera stations and an IR linescanner so was actually a bit more useful than the RAF's eventual GR.1A mod

The GR.1A had an IR Linescan unit and two oblique IIR cameras with straight-to-digital image storage. Not sure, therefore, how the GR.1A was 'less useful' than the other nations' recce equipment. The German ECR variant had internal cameras and/or a linescan unit in place of guns.
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Offline PR19_Kit

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Re: Tornado Themed Build?
« Reply #98 on: January 23, 2019, 05:33:45 am »

This role was trialled IRL for the 2003 Gulf War (but not, in the event used). F.3s were converted to 'EF.3s' by adding two ALARM missiles on GR.1 pylons refitted under the fuselage, and re-activating the outer wing pylons to carry BOZ and PHIMAT pods.


I've just seen a pic of that trials installation somewhere, perhaps in the Flypast magazine Tornado special issue?
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Offline Dizzyfugu

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Re: Tornado Themed Build?
« Reply #99 on: January 23, 2019, 05:53:14 am »

Offline Weaver

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Re: Tornado Themed Build?
« Reply #100 on: January 23, 2019, 06:14:17 am »
Airfix even did a 1/48th scale kit of it:

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Offline PR19_Kit

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Re: Tornado Themed Build?
« Reply #101 on: January 23, 2019, 06:14:45 am »
A very interesting pic that, taken from the other side to the one I saw.

What are the two stores on the starboard outer pylon though? The lower one looks like a 'winder with its forward fins missing.

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Offline Weaver

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Re: Tornado Themed Build?
« Reply #102 on: January 23, 2019, 06:29:41 am »
A very interesting pic that, taken from the other side to the one I saw.

What are the two stores on the starboard outer pylon though? The lower one looks like a 'winder with its forward fins missing.

Not sure which you mean, but the stores are:

Fuselage stations: ALARM
Sidewinder pylons: ASRAAMs
Inner wing pylons: 230 gal GR.1 drop tanks (NOT the usual 'Hindenburger' tanks seen on the F.3)
Starboard outer: PHIMAT chaff/flare pod
Port outer: BOZ chaff flare pod

I don't know why it carried two different chaff/flare pods.


« Last Edit: January 23, 2019, 06:31:19 am by Weaver »
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Offline NARSES2

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Re: Tornado Themed Build?
« Reply #103 on: January 23, 2019, 06:31:25 am »
Right I've moved a couple of builds to the dedicated thread and am just about to set up a discussion thread over there, so if anybody would like me to move anything they have posted here over there then let me know.

Chris

Why not move this entire thread into the dedicated board?

I did consider it, but didn't go forward with it for a couple of reasons. Neither of which seems particularly valid this afternoon  :-\
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Offline PR19_Kit

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Re: Tornado Themed Build?
« Reply #104 on: January 23, 2019, 06:35:43 am »
It's the ASRAAM I didn't click on, they DO like 'winders no forward fins of course.  :thumbsup:
Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

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