Author Topic: 23 Sqdn. DH Venom T5  (Read 8804 times)

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Offline PR19_Kit

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23 Sqdn. DH Venom T5
« on: July 19, 2018, 04:08:35 pm »
While waiting for the never ending putty to dry on the various bits of the Rotocrane I had an idea........

The RAF never did have a trainer version of the DH Venom, and neither did anyone else as De Havilland never built one. So I figured it's about time they did.  ;D

I had the requisite bits lying around the place, namely the excellent Airfix Vampire T11 kit, the wings and booms and bits and pieces from a Premiere/Tasman (ex-FROG) Sea Venom FAW 21 and a Rareplanes Venom FB3 vacform. Quite why the Sea Venom doesn't have a fuselage is lost in the mists of time, but the Rareplanes kit will provide the required larger diameter and longer Venom engine compartment, and melding the whole lot together should provide the makings of a 'Venom T5'. Result!

Here's the bits and pieces all assembled together before work started.



As most Venoms had ejector seats fitted later on in life I replaced the Airfix Vampire's standard seats with the white metal MB products from the Premiere kit, and built the rest as designed.

Here's the port half of the assembly together with the air intake trunking before assembly.



The Premiere wings and booms needed a bit of fettling, they are after all some 40+ years old, but they're not too bad and will be better after some PSR and filing.



The Rareplanes fuselage halves needed the usual vacform sanding down operations, and here's the two halves before and during the sanding. For a reminder on what this involves see my little 'teach-in' on vacform sanding in my Welkin III thread here :- http://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php/topic,44811.15.html post #28



I plan to have the T5 in all-over silver with yellow stripes, standard RAF trainer scheme in the late 50s, early 60s and it'll be assigned to 23 Squadron, mainly because that Squadron was the one that was stupid enough to give me my first jet ride in their Vampire T11 hack.  ;D

Progress on this will depend on how the Rotocrane goes really.
Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage

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Offline The Wooksta!

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Re: 23 Sqdn. DH Venom T5
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2018, 04:30:10 pm »
Don't forget that the Venom and Sea Venom have different door shapes!

I've always had a hankering for a single seat RN Sea Venom.
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Offline PR19_Kit

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Re: 23 Sqdn. DH Venom T5
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2018, 04:34:50 pm »

Don't forget that the Venom and Sea Venom have different door shapes!

I've always had a hankering for a single seat RN Sea Venom.


They have different wing shapes too, but I did an RAF NF3 from the FROG kit a long time ago, so I'm using it as a reference too.
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Offline kitbasher

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Re: 23 Sqdn. DH Venom T5
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2018, 11:11:08 pm »
I've always had a hankering for a single seat RN Sea Venom.

Ditto.  Especially having seen an ancient (pre-FROG kit I guess) scratch-built Sea Venom that looks more like a single-seater.
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Re: 23 Sqdn. DH Venom T5
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2018, 11:12:34 pm »
Venom/SeaVenom different wing shapes?
In what ways, Kit?
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Re: 23 Sqdn. DH Venom T5
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2018, 11:25:07 pm »
The trailing edge of the Vampire wing angles forward giving the wing a trapezoidal shape, The Venom has a straight, i.e. non swept, TE.

I am also working on a Venom trainer for this build but using the Cyber Hobby Sea Venom, the problem is that the fuselages of the the two kits, Airfix and Ciber Hobby, do not have the same cross section. The Cyber Hobby kit being narrower and more shallow. *%$+*$  :banghead:
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Re: 23 Sqdn. DH Venom T5
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2018, 11:44:51 pm »
Venom/SeaVenom different wing shapes?
In what ways, Kit?

Yes please Kit, please tell  ;D I have two 1/32nd Matchbox Sea Venom/Venom kits, and as far a I remember the only difference the kit instructions gave was to remove the fin off the wing-tip tank and a 'tab' (or something like that) off the rear edge of the wing. Were there bigger differences than that in the Sea Venom / Venom wing?
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Re: 23 Sqdn. DH Venom T5
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2018, 11:49:56 pm »
The trailing edge of the Vampire wing angles forward giving the wing a trapezoidal shape, The Venom has a straight, i.e. non swept, TE.

Vampire/Venom yes very different Jim, but Kit said Venom/Sea Venom, hence the query as I thought no difference other than the wing fold.
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Offline Mossie

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Re: 23 Sqdn. DH Venom T5
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2018, 01:05:55 am »
Quite why the Sea Venom doesn't have a fuselage is lost in the mists of time,

Because I've got it!  You sent me it so I could do the high altitude Vampire with the Goblin Ghost engine and long wings.  It didn't work out as the Sea Venom has the fairing for the hook on top of the fuselage, so if you need it back I'm happy to send it.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2018, 03:47:47 am by Mossie »
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Offline PR19_Kit

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Re: 23 Sqdn. DH Venom T5
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2018, 01:45:08 am »
Quite why the Sea Venom doesn't have a fuselage is lost in the mists of time,

Because I've got it!  You sent me it so I could do the high altitude Vampire with the Goblin engine and long wings.  It didn't work out as the Sea Venom has the fairing for the hook on top of the fuselage, so if you need it back I'm happy to send it.


Hah! I knew it'd be something like that.  ;D No matter Mossie, I'm sure you'll find a use for it one day, or someone else will anyway.

Re Venom/Sea Venom wing shapes, the trailing edge inboard of the booms is flat (....ish) on a Land Venom, but on a Sea Venom is slopes upwards a small amount where it fairs into the arrestor hook fairing over the top of the exhaust.

The FROG kit shows this rather well, but it's the very devil to find an RW pic of it as the booms usually get in the way, but I found a couple after a lengthy search.



RAN Sea Venom FAW 53 with the upswept TE circled




RAF Venom NF3, an early one, with the 'flat' TE circled

My (not finished after 30+ years!) NF3 was made from a FROG kit and I sawed off the hook fairing and rebuilt the top of the exhaust with styrene and putty, and I sorted the TE issue with a pair of pliers (!) and a file.  ;D



The 30 year old model, sadly in need of some decals and a canopy


Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

Regards
Kit

Offline PR19_Kit

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Re: 23 Sqdn. DH Venom T5
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2018, 03:36:09 pm »
The Venom's proceeding apace, maybe faster than the Rotocrane, but that's because there's so much PSR on the 'crane.

I glued the two halves of the Rareplane Venom FB4 fuselage  together (and their precision is SO impressive!) and then sawed off the front end. Conveniently Rareplane, or more likely de Havilland, have a panel line exactly where the saw cut needed to be, and it lined up with another one on the Airfix T11.  :thumbsup:

Having assembled the T11 cockpit I then sawed off the engine (!) and installed the intakes and their trunking, and then glued the Venom engine onto the rear. It fitted EXACTLY! Magic stuff.  ;D

I then spent a happy half hour filing and sanding the FROG Sea Venom wings and booms so that they looked a bit more like they should do. Those moulds have NOT stood the test of time well at all!

Here's all the bits assembled in position.



Oh yes, I did the 'pliers and file' trick on the inboard trailing edges of the wings too, but as the moulds are so bad they didn't need much filing, just a light skim really.
Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

Regards
Kit

Offline The Wooksta!

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Re: 23 Sqdn. DH Venom T5
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2018, 05:08:22 pm »
Looking forward to the finished result.

Have you considered a two seat trainer DH Swallow?
"It's basically a cure -  for not being an axe-wielding homicidal maniac. The potential market's enormous!"

"Please dial *617 at this time"

"We're the Sweeney, son, and we haven't had any dinner."

"An inaccurate parcel of dog turds!"

The Plan:
www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,34762.0.ht

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Re: 23 Sqdn. DH Venom T5
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2018, 10:18:48 pm »

Looking forward to the finished result.

Have you considered a two seat trainer DH Swallow?


No, but it's a good idea.  ;D
Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

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Kit

Offline Doug K

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Re: 23 Sqdn. DH Venom T5
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2018, 01:28:10 am »
The Venom's proceeding apace, maybe faster than the Rotocrane, but that's because there's so much PSR on the 'crane.

I glued the two halves of the Rareplane Venom FB4 fuselage  together (and their precision is SO impressive!) and then sawed off the front end. Conveniently Rareplane, or more likely de Havilland, have a panel line exactly where the saw cut needed to be, and it lined up with another one on the Airfix T11.  :thumbsup:

Having assembled the T11 cockpit I then sawed off the engine (!) and installed the intakes and their trunking, and then glued the Venom engine onto the rear. It fitted EXACTLY! Magic stuff.  ;D

I then spent a happy half hour filing and sanding the FROG Sea Venom wings and booms so that they looked a bit more like they should do. Those moulds have NOT stood the test of time well at all!

Here's all the bits assembled in position.



Oh yes, I did the 'pliers and file' trick on the inboard trailing edges of the wings too, but as the moulds are so bad they didn't need much filing, just a light skim really.

Youíre not wrong, about the tooling. I got one from fleabay (very cheap luckily) and one tip tank is pretty much 1/3 missing. Plastic didnít make it al the way to the Moulden. Explains the price. Unfortunately I bought it for the damn tanks!

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Re: 23 Sqdn. DH Venom T5
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2018, 01:33:16 am »

Youíre not wrong, about the tooling. I got one from fleabay (very cheap luckily) and one tip tank is pretty much 1/3 missing. Plastic didnít make it al the way to the Moulden. Explains the price. Unfortunately I bought it for the damn tanks!


It's a big pity that at least one of the umpteen moulders of the FROGspawn stuff didn't make an attempt to re-cut the moulds. Many of the types FROG made are unique, or were until very recently anyway, and only now are some of them being newly produced, mostly thanks to the ever inventive Czechs.  :thumbsup:

The Fairey Barracuda and Martin Maryland fall into the latter category, I'm pleased to say, both faves of mine, but I expect I'll build my FROG examples anyway.  ;D
Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

Regards
Kit