Author Topic: Redesign Star Wars  (Read 4834 times)

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Offline PR19_Kit

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Re: Redesign Star Wars
« Reply #105 on: August 06, 2019, 10:41:17 am »

I've been re-reading all of this and the only conclusion I can come to is that I was obviously asleep when we covered this area in my "O Level" physics class  ;)


I've been reading it too, or trying to anyway, and came to the conclusion it was written in a different language to one I'm familiar with.  ;)
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Offline Weaver

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Re: Redesign Star Wars
« Reply #106 on: August 07, 2019, 02:36:37 am »
Okay, lets try to drag the thread back to what it's supposed to be about...

(cue an off-topic discussion about whether thread-drift is okay or not okay...)

TIE-Fighters

I always thought that the TIE-Fighter design missed a trick in not being foldable. These things are supposed to be cheap and expendable so that they can be used en masse, yet they have a very volumetrically inefficient design which means that any bay on a capital ship 'filled' with TIE-Fighters actually contains a lot of empty space. If they solar panels were split into upper and lower halves and moved apart by the width of the 'hub', then they could fold inwards without doing any disservice to the aesthetics of the ship. Furthermore, since their height is longer than the length of the arm they're mounted on, the arm could usefully telescope outwards as they fold in order to let them lie flat. You could them have them recover and launch by means of a pair of arms extending from the mother ship which engage with the ends of the arms. An alternative, of course, would be to add more frame lines to the panels so that they could fold twice (might be tricky to animate with real models and 1970s SFX tech though).

Both the Darth Vader TIE and the TIE Interceptor go some way towards this configuration by having panels with three, rather than two, vertical divisions.


Another point about the TIE is that it's supposed to be a space-only type, yet the scriptwriters soon had it flying merrily through almospheres. Yes I know that non-aerodynamic Star Wars ships supposedly fly through atmospheres by using "energy shields" but it's always stated explicitly that the TIE doesn't have defense shields to make it lighter, so you could equally say that not having "atmo-shields" would make it lighter still. It might make a more interesting limitation on the design if it really was strictly space-only, so that Rebel craft could avoid it by entering an atmosphere, thereby emphasising again the difference in design ethos between the Rebellion and the Empire. That would also force the Empire to have a different design of "aerospace fighter" for planetary defence and assault, which gives the designers another opportunity to produce something different and cool-looking (although the plot of Ep.IV doesn't actually require Imperial fighters to go into atmosphere at any point).
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Offline zenrat

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Re: Redesign Star Wars
« Reply #107 on: August 07, 2019, 03:25:56 am »
There is no need for TIE fighters to fold because there appears to be no lack of space inside Imperial capital craft.  Not the ones i've seen in the movies anyway.
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Offline Weaver

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Re: Redesign Star Wars
« Reply #108 on: August 07, 2019, 03:44:20 am »
There is no need for TIE fighters to fold because there appears to be no lack of space inside Imperial capital craft.  Not the ones i've seen in the movies anyway.

Even if your tech is so advanced that 'steel is cheap and air is free' (rarely actually the case in space), carrying more fighters in a given space is surely still better than carrying less? Think what you could do with the extra space: more guns, more shields, bigger and more ominous conference rooms with huge windows...

Anyway, if X-Wings with folding wings look cool, then TIE-Fighters with folding wings also look cool... ;)
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Offline zenrat

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Re: Redesign Star Wars
« Reply #109 on: August 07, 2019, 04:50:56 am »
X-Wings wings don't really fold though do they.  They just sort of flap up and down a bit.
Now, if the bottom set had the hinges moved outwards and both sets could move upwards through 100 degrees then THOSE would be folding wings and the rebel scum could cram twice as many X-Wings into their ancient jungle temples or ice caves.
Fred

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Offline Weaver

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Re: Redesign Star Wars
« Reply #110 on: August 07, 2019, 05:10:31 am »
X-Wings wings don't really fold though do they.  They just sort of flap up and down a bit.
Now, if the bottom set had the hinges moved outwards and both sets could move upwards through 100 degrees then THOSE would be folding wings and the rebel scum could cram twice as many X-Wings into their ancient jungle temples or ice caves.

True, but they reason X-Wings do it is to make it easier to land them on sensible-length undercarriage, so the rough principle is the same: changing the shape of the ship from landing/docking configuartion to foghting configuration.
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Offline tigercat

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Re: Redesign Star Wars
« Reply #111 on: August 07, 2019, 01:34:32 pm »
Wouldn't being solar powered be a disadvantage in some circumstances.

As an alternative design I suggest horten ho 229 flying wing as basis for TIE fighter

Offline Mossie

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Re: Redesign Star Wars
« Reply #112 on: August 08, 2019, 06:27:57 am »
Anyway, if X-Wings with folding wings look cool, then TIE-Fighters with folding wings also look cool... ;)

TIE Hunter.  First came about in one of the computer games:
https://starwars-exodus.fandom.com/wiki/TIE_Hunter
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Offline tigercat

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Re: Redesign Star Wars
« Reply #113 on: August 08, 2019, 11:02:22 am »
Dare someone to make a TIE R.A.C.K.

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Offline joncarrfarrelly

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Re: Redesign Star Wars
« Reply #114 on: August 08, 2019, 12:52:38 pm »
Fold only the forward and aft "points" of the hexagon panels, cut in a vertical line from top to bottom
resulting in a rectangular shape, and then nest them together turning every other one 90.

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Offline Weaver

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Re: Redesign Star Wars
« Reply #115 on: August 09, 2019, 12:48:54 am »
Here's a page full of alternative TIE-Fighter sketches by Dwayne Vance:

http://gallery.wacom.com/gallery/23380377/Tie-Fighter-redesign
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Offline Weaver

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Re: Redesign Star Wars
« Reply #116 on: August 15, 2019, 05:21:41 am »
Never heard of that project Harold, mind you, one of the reasons Musk switched to stainless steel on his Starhopper was his concern of foreign objects penetrating the carbon fiber design when in space.  I wonder if that is why that Bigelow project hasn't gone anywhere.

The reason for the switch is that stainless steel is lighter than carbon fibre for the range of temperatures required, i.e. from the intense cold of cryogenic propellants to the heat of re-entry. Stainless steel can be thinner than carbon-fibre and doesn't need any insulation on the leeward side of the craft during re-entry, and it can deal with the heat on the underside by being double-skinned with active cooling by fuel and evaporative cooling by water, which works out lighter than carbon-fiblre plus ceramic heat tiles.

The Bigelow project has achieved quite a lot: they've launched two unmanned habs to test the long-term durability (both still in orbit) and they've had their BEAM module attached to the ISS since mid-2016. BEAM was originally supposed to be a 2-year programme with year-by-year extensions: NASA has granted one so far and looks likely to grant more. The ISS crew use it for storing empty containers awaiting the arrival of a cargo vessel to take them back.

The main reason why Bigelow haven't launched a private space station yet is that development of commercial crew launchers has been slower than anticipated. Basically, as soon as SpaceX, ULA or Blue Origin start selling seats to low-Earth orbit, Bigelow will start trying to give them somewhere to go.

Bigelow's modules have actually demonstrated better micro-meteroid resistance than simulated ISS ones. The flexibility takes considerable force out of the impact: projectiles that penetrated the rigid ISS mockup hull only got halfway through the Bigelow hull.

NASA have just cleared BEAM to remain on the ISS until 2028 at least. This is a technical clearance not a contract, but since the module has made itself useful and exceeded all it's durability requirements, a contract is likely to follow.

https://rocketrundown.com/nasa-clear-beam-module-to-remain-on-space-station-through-2028/
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Offline tahsin

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Re: Redesign Star Wars
« Reply #117 on: September 27, 2019, 01:18:19 am »
Can't locate a link or a Picture but am pretty sure the First Order jerks have their wings folding. At least at the concept art stage, because they cheat with a Special Operations TIE.