Great interview of the first USAF pilot to fly Mig-29s

DogfighterZen · December 08, 2015, 02:15:39 PM

Funny how so called "Experts" have said over the years that dogfighting was obsolete... Then pilots have to come out and shut'em up, cause it's all about the dogfight...

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/how-to-win-in-a-dogfight-stories-from-a-pilot-who-flew-1682723379

Captain Canada · December 08, 2015, 03:18:31 PM

Long read ! I skipped through to see what he had to say about the -29, but saved the link for a full read. he sure had the experience !

Thanks and cheers

rickshaw · December 08, 2015, 07:58:36 PM

Build a dogfighting UAV and missile and the fighter and pilot will be out of a job...

DogfighterZen · December 09, 2015, 12:57:35 PM

You're welcome, Captain! Yup, it's a long interview but it's got some very interesting info on the Viper's performance compared to the Mig-29 and F-15s... with me being an unconditional fan of the F-16, it was nice to learn some more about it!

And it's all about the dogfight...

Rickshaw, that's been further from happening... I know that UAVs don't have mothers but, i'd like to know if the pilots are happy with that possibility... sitting in a room on the ground in front of a screen instead of flying...

rickshaw · December 09, 2015, 08:08:01 PM

Quote from: DogfighterZen on December 09, 2015, 12:57:35 PM
You're welcome, Captain! Yup, it's a long interview but it's got some very interesting info on the Viper's performance compared to the Mig-29 and F-15s... with me being an unconditional fan of the F-16, it was nice to learn some more about it! And it's all about the dogfight...
Rickshaw, that's been further from happening... I know that UAVs don't have mothers but, i'd like to know if the pilots are happy with that possibility... sitting in a room on the ground in front of a screen instead of flying...

The Pilots who don't or won't adapt was going to be in a rather dwindling group. A UAV which is stressed to pull 10 Gs is going to beat a human piloted aircraft which can only pull half that value, occasionally. Coupled with a missile which can pul 20 Gs, the human pilot has no chance of surviving combat. The end of piloted fighters is on the horizon. Time it was faced up to.

PR19_Kit · December 10, 2015, 02:36:21 AM

How does the 'pilot' of the 'fighter' UAV 'check six' to see if the opponent is in that area?

rickshaw · December 10, 2015, 04:16:22 AM

Quote from: PR19_Kit on December 10, 2015, 02:36:21 AM
How does the 'pilot' of the 'fighter' UAV 'check six' to see if the opponent is in that area?

By using their synthetic virtual display, Kit.

NARSES2 · December 10, 2015, 04:56:54 AM

Quote from: rickshaw on December 09, 2015, 08:08:01 PM

The Pilots who don't or won't adapt was going to be in a rather dwindling group. A UAV which is stressed to pull 10 Gs is going to beat a human piloted aircraft which can only pull half that value, occasionally. Coupled with a missile which can pul 20 Gs, the human pilot has no chance of surviving combat. The end of piloted fighters is on the horizon. Time it was faced up to.

Pilot of the future will probably be an 11 year old, spectacle wearing, never sees daylight schoolkid

DogfighterZen · December 10, 2015, 06:03:19 AM

Well, i guess that an air superiority UAV would have a camera on the rear for checking six... much like today's cars with parking cams...

But i have the impression it still is a distant future... Imagine that the enemy of a UAV armed air force manages to disable their satellites and jam the UAV's electronics... I don't know how the guidance system and data-links of UAVs work, but i believe that if the connections to the pilots on the ground were blocked, the UAV users would be in deep trouble if they didn't have a back up plan.
I believe the monkey in the cockpit still has quite a few years left before he's grounded... I'm just saying that based on this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfVXdi-Kk0o
Oh, and don't forget that, somewhere in the deserts and isolated mountains of this planet, craft with anti-gravity propulsion are being developed and built... if they're not in use already, that is...

PR19_Kit · December 10, 2015, 08:01:16 AM

Quote from: rickshaw on December 10, 2015, 04:16:22 AM
Quote from: PR19_Kit on December 10, 2015, 02:36:21 AM
How does the 'pilot' of the 'fighter' UAV 'check six' to see if the opponent is in that area?

By using their synthetic virtual display, Kit.

Well yes, but I'm not convinced that such a system would actually do the job quickly enough. Currently the pilot decides that he should be 'checking six' and he turns his head and does so. He takes in a wide view as well as his direct view AT THE SAME TIME and of he sees anything in that wide view he will be able to switch to it, and decide if it's hostile or not.

A ground based pilot many miles away from his 'aircraft' will take the same decision that he needs to 'check six' but then has to select the correct view on his 'synthetic virtual display'. If he needs a wider view he'll have to zoom out and then back in again onto any potential target. I reckon that will take more time than a real pilot aboard a real aircraft at the current state of technology.

Maybe in 30-40 years time, but not soon.

rickshaw · December 10, 2015, 06:35:19 PM

Quote from: PR19_Kit on December 10, 2015, 08:01:16 AM
Quote from: rickshaw on December 10, 2015, 04:16:22 AM
Quote from: PR19_Kit on December 10, 2015, 02:36:21 AM
How does the 'pilot' of the 'fighter' UAV 'check six' to see if the opponent is in that area?

By using their synthetic virtual display, Kit.

Well yes, but I'm not convinced that such a system would actually do the job quickly enough. Currently the pilot decides that he should be 'checking six' and he turns his head and does so. He takes in a wide view as well as his direct view AT THE SAME TIME and of he sees anything in that wide view he will be able to switch to it, and decide if it's hostile or not.

A ground based pilot many miles away from his 'aircraft' will take the same decision that he needs to 'check six' but then has to select the correct view on his 'synthetic virtual display'. If he needs a wider view he'll have to zoom out and then back in again onto any potential target. I reckon that will take more time than a real pilot aboard a real aircraft at the current state of technology.

Maybe in 30-40 years time, but not soon.

The F-35 already has a synthetic visual display built into it, so the pilot in that case can seem to "look through" the aircraft because of the EOP systems which are situated a the extremities of the aircraft. That same EOP system can spot and alert the pilot that there is a rapidly moving object in its overlapping field of view, Kit. A UAV using the same sort of system would do exactly the same for the remote pilot. He'd be able to "look around", and "check six". What we are about to see with the introduction of the F-35 is a system which means the old days of "sneaking up" on your opponent are gone. While everybody complains about the flying ability of the F-35, no one notices that it is introducing new ways of seeing the world around the aircraft. Ways which eliminate at least some of the risks associated with air combat encounters.

A UAV doesn't BTW have to be controlled by a human pilot. Computer systems already basically control the aircraft, under the direction of the pilot. We have computers which can react much faster than human pilots can to stimuli. A human versus a computer pilot? The human will invariably lose because the computer is faster, is not distracted by the demands of it's body and can withstand much higher Gs and so turn tighter and faster than the human. Robot aircraft aren't that far away.

PR19_Kit · December 11, 2015, 01:00:33 AM

We'll see..................

Mr.Creak · December 11, 2015, 04:12:02 AM

Quote from: rickshaw on December 10, 2015, 06:35:19 PMThe F-35 already has a synthetic visual display built into it, so the pilot in that case can seem to "look through" the aircraft because of the EOP systems which are situated a the extremities of the aircraft. That same EOP system can spot and alert the pilot that there is a rapidly moving object in its overlapping field of view, Kit. A UAV using the same sort of system would do exactly the same for the remote pilot. He'd be able to "look around", and "check six".

That'll happen when and if the bugs get worked out.
Pilots are currently complaining that there's not enough headroom to swivel and get a rear view.

rickshaw · December 11, 2015, 05:49:13 AM

Quote from: Mr.Creak on December 11, 2015, 04:12:02 AM
Quote from: rickshaw on December 10, 2015, 06:35:19 PMThe F-35 already has a synthetic visual display built into it, so the pilot in that case can seem to "look through" the aircraft because of the EOP systems which are situated a the extremities of the aircraft. That same EOP system can spot and alert the pilot that there is a rapidly moving object in its overlapping field of view, Kit. A UAV using the same sort of system would do exactly the same for the remote pilot. He'd be able to "look around", and "check six".
That'll happen when and if the bugs get worked out.
Pilots are currently complaining that there's not enough headroom to swivel and get a rear view.

Looks like plenty of room in the F-35 cockpit

sandiego89 · December 11, 2015, 08:23:53 AM

From my understanding the complaint about rear visibilty from the F-35 is more about the bulkhead behind the pilot, not so much the headroom. The "B" is the worst of the three due to the lift fan right behing the pilot with a wider bulkheard right behind the seat. The "B" has a canopy of less length, with less glass than the A or C models.