Thorvics'Blog

[Thorvic]

hmm. Geoff! thanks for the inspiration for the EDSG allover FAA 'toom at cosford. it will get built.

btw, have you any thoughts on what CVA-01's airwing might have looked like if she'd been built and had fought in the falklands?

looking forward to the next HS681, btw. 

Hi Trev

Well by 1982 it would have still been the Phantom and the Buccaneer as the core FAA air wing, Sea King HAS2/5 and probably E-2K Hawkeye (E-2C) as I doubt they pushed ahead with the P139. They wouldn't have gone for the F-14 as its still on the big, expensive heavy side, and Hornet wasn't really ready for sea service as an off the shelf next gen carrier aircraft till after the war.

However the thing to factor in was the Phantom and Buccaneer were seen as the initial readily available airgroup for CVA-01 in the 70s, they did envisage a replacement type starting late 60s for use late 70's. This was of course the AFVG, which became UKVG and hence Tornado, however that requirement was RAF driven as a Canberra replacement followed by an interceptor with a lot of co-operation with the West Germans and Italy. With valid RN input as well as RAF, we probably would have seen the ADV appear earlier as a Carrier capable version, as initially an Interceptor for CAP and then Strike to replace both the Phantom and Buccaneer with a common type. Build wise use a Tornado F-3 kit, the landing gear would need to change and probably the main gear bay as it would need to be straight, beefier legs, beefy wheels and an a revised nose gear with longer stroke and probably a forward pull bar for the catapult shuttle rather than using cables and hooks, an arrestor hook and probably a folding fin tip. You'll need to revise the fuselage to intake join to allow for the revised main gear, so that taper where the fuselage meets the intakes as an undercut will effectively be filled in. Should look mostly like a Tornado but the Sea Tornado would be different enough to get the wow factor.

[Captain Canada]

Glad to here you are moving forward with the build, and already looking past it to the next one Geoff ! The Sea Tornado idea sounds pretty good. Not a fan of altering all those sexy curves, but hey, it will look Tornado enough to get my vote !

 

[Thorvic]

Glad to here you are moving forward with the build, and already looking past it to the next one Geoff ! The Sea Tornado idea sounds pretty good. Not a fan of altering all those sexy curves, but hey, it will look Tornado enough to get my vote !

 

Its only the intake area, it would be more conventional blending to the lower fuselage, probably in a similar way to the BAC 583 I did that's all, most of the Tornado F3 size and shape would remain. 

[Thorvic]

Well after a busy weekend and a bit of hunting out kits, checking parts against drawings for the next project I was finally able to get back to the HS-681. Taped together the cargo cabin, dropped in the upper and lower cockpits and taped the fuselage together to check the fit of the canopy. Looks OK side on and in plan view, sort of fits at the front but way too wide at the rear corners - why because the Transall tapers in on the upper cockpit, so spent last night bulking out the window sills so the canopy touches and then i'll have to build up with various laminations of plastic card to blend into the fuselage before milliput and lots of PSR to get the Shape right.

I will also sort out the rear fuselage as the doors are a different shape, and I will try and sort out the wing to fuselage join, whilst its all still taped up. The idea is that the heavy conversion work is done now so that I can then clean up the interior from the building detritus add the detail, paint it up and reassemble leaving only the seams to clean up and sort out. (In theory !)

[Thorvic]

Nothing done on the 681 last night as had other chores to do but did find my original 3 view drawing which reminded me to keep cross referencing the drawings and the artwork to ensure my mental image doesn't get corrupted. I've had that happen previously on a 681 build so I know the consequences. It also reminded me that there are a few bits I haven't even started yet such as the fin the engine pylons, both will need to be scratch built as very specific to the model so I need to decide what will be the best options for creating both.

On a side note I received some detail bits for the next build, others are on the way from Hong Kong, so that should keep me from being distracted for the time being until I'm ready to start.

However I hear from Hannants that the Sword Gannet AEW3 is due in stock in the next two weeks so that may well be a distraction, although its a bit more simplified than the Alley cat kit, the detail is supposed to be good so it might be something I can build as a gap filler during one of the major builds....

[Thorvic]

Well another week and actually made some progress this weekend as the weather has gone back to normal.

I discovered I had a problem with my choice of donor kits in that the Transall tapers to a narrower cockpit with a more angular flat faced windows, the 681 however is more rounded and wider conforming more to the diameter of the fuselage. After checking out various possible donor kits both in the stash and on-line I decided that the VC-10 cockpit windows were nearest the Mark so after a polite email to Anigrand I managed to procure a replacement canopy from their VC-10 kit.
So this last weekend I taped up the interior loose fitted it to the fuselage and taped the two halves together. I was in a Catch-22 situation as I couldn't assemble the cockpit till I knew the canopy would fit or else all the interior detail would be lost to PSR debris and dust and thus I couldn't join the fuselage whilst the interior needed to be finished, thus copious amount's of Tamiya tape to strap everything together to gauge the fit of the canopy. Well first look and it did the job, it looked right in profile and fitted just about at the front windscreen, however it overhung the rear corners of the cockpit by a good 3-4 mm each side   . Its resin so it would snap if forced and that gap couldn't be made up easily as it showed just how much taper there was in the cockpit shape, so out with the plastic card to build up sills for the canopy to sit upon in the corners as the top edge and front edge were OK. Then it was a case of back filling to blend with the fuselage followed by Milliput and plenty of PSR.

I can now happily say that the canopy fits, just a bit of fine adjustment required at the front, and it has the look and feel of the 681 now  .

I also managed to work out a basis for my tail fin, as the 681 has quite a large and distinctive tail fin that others don't match, then an idea came to mind and I dug out the spare wings I had from a B-52 scrap kit I once had. They were close if a little too big but the lower halves with the flaps missing were almost perfect, so the two lower inner wing are now being worked upon to create my new Tail fin.

Still lots to do to sort out all the bits I need, the Fuselage needs work at the rear to change the door format and tidy up the tail cone shape; then I need to get to work on creating and moving the wings box forward and filling in the resulting gap behind the wing, but that comes once the fuselage is joined together.
I only have two engines almost built with the other pair in need of starting. I need to do all four engine pylons the Fin top fairing for the tail planes and of course the rather large sponson's for the undercarriage.

Ps to follow

[Thorvic]

Oh well nothing done last night, had other chores to do when I got home including going getting Tea as the cleaner was blitzing the kitchen, so had lost the light by the time I had finished my chores. A pity really as I was plotting on what I still needed to do whilst the fuselage was tapped together and thinking where to look for potential parts for the Tail fin bullet  . I did try out some possible donor parts for the engine pylons against the Drawings but not sure if they will work so will look at something else tonight that just sprung to mind....

Good news when I got home was a parcel from Hong Kong which are more resin bits for my next build. I think I may have what I need to kick start this build once the 681 is assembled. (I may carry on with the building programme and do the painting, decaling an finishing off at the same time as similar requirements  and saves the other from getting dusty whilst the other is built.

One annoying factor of getting a cleaner in is her requirement to de-clutter the house, as that will eventually include my room and work space so needs must I will have to make an attempt to clean up the room and de-clutter leaving just those kits that I intend to build this year to hand along with the usual tools, paints and spares. The trouble is I could do with that building time whilst the mojo is up and when tidying up you find stuff part built or put aside that you suddenly do want to get finished 

[Thorvic]

Parts so far with the wing taped up fuselage, basis of engines and tail fin



Cockpit build up to fit new canopy



Creating the engines



The wing created from the KC-135 wings



Approx location of where wing will eventially go and the back filling required (to be done when fuselage joined



The insides taped together,note the lower cockpit and nose gear bay (the square bits will be trimmed back once fixed in fuselage), note weights on the under side of cargo floor.

So need to crack on with the interior so the fuselage can be joined and the next lot of work done to create the new wing roots.

[Gondor]

Impressive     

Gondor

[PR19_Kit]

Blimey, that looks good, and complex too. 

I always thought the 681 effectively had four Harrier fuselages for engines, but if it hasn't how does it STOL?

[Thorvic]

Blimey, that looks good, and complex too. 

I always thought the 681 effectively had four Harrier fuselages for engines, but if it hasn't how does it STOL?

Its the Medway version, but i havent added the deflected thrust nozzles to the engines yet, they used moveable vents to deflect some or all of the engine thrust to the vents. I will add a blister in the lower rear qtr on each side of the engine and fit a photoetch grill to act as vent.

[PR19_Kit]

Blimey, that looks good, and complex too. 

I always thought the 681 effectively had four Harrier fuselages for engines, but if it hasn't how does it STOL?

Its the Medway version, but i havent added the deflected thrust nozzles to the engines yet, they used moveable vents to deflect some or all of the engine thrust to the vents. I will add a blister in the lower rear qtr on each side of the engine and fit a photoetch grill to act as vent.

Excellent, thanks. Looking forward to seeing those mods. 

[Thorvic]

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1963/1963%20-%202232.html

That shows the Medway engine with the Thrust Deflector, which should give you the idea

[PR19_Kit]

Never seen that before, very interesting, thanks. 

[Thorvic]

Oh Bugger, dilemma time as I have the new Sword Gannet in transit. Now comes the conundrum do I shelve it until the HS681 is assembled or do I try and do a quick build in between doing bits on the HS681 ? 

It is tempting although being Sword whilst nicely detailed I doubt it will fall together so it probably won't be a shake n bake build, I do have a Whif/PC idea for one but I really shouldn't get distracted as I have another build set to follow soon after the 681 is done.... .

Nope must keep focus, I'll fondle the plastic when it arrives I may even source the decals for it but I think I will shelve it ready to do once other builds are done as the mojo is still good with the 681 and the follow up build. I'll leave it to one of you guys to knock out the first Gannet Whiff instead  .

OK so on with the show, now that I broken down the 681 fuselage I think I should get on and get it finished off ready for assembly. I need to change the rear loading doors for the 681 format, finish off painting the cargo cabin and fit the seats. Details & paint the lower cockpit and detail the nose gear bay. Build and paint the cockpit as that different to the Transall. Then I will have to scribe in where the wings will be fitted to make cutting out of the area easier (need to leave it in place to begin with to help the fit of the interior and joining of the halves).

As its the Bank Holiday I hope to get most of this done over the weekend if I can as a sign of progress and achievement