Author Topic: Luftwaffe WW2 reconnaisance colours  (Read 7130 times)

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Offline simmie

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Luftwaffe WW2 reconnaisance colours
« on: November 09, 2011, 05:11:14 am »
I am just wondering if the Luftwaffe developed any specific colour schemes for their reconnaisance aircraft during WW2.

I know the RAF did a lot of work in this area and came up with both high and low altitude colours.

Thanks in advance
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Offline PR19_Kit

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Re: Luftwaffe WW2 reconnaisance colours
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2011, 05:37:24 am »
Funny you should ask that..........

I've been looking into exactl the same subject and I come to the conlsion that they didn't, apart maybe for the ultra-high altitude Ju-86Ps and Rs. There are very few, if any, colour piccies of these two aircraft available, but there are quite a few B&W ones. They would indicate that there were two schemes in use, one seems to be all over dark green on top and pale blue underneath (I'm sure someone will come up with the RLM Nos....) and the other seems to be an  overall medium shaded colour, but it's impossible to tell what it is.

RS Models make kits of both these and they have two single colour schemes in their instructions :-



There's also another drawing like that on the Net that shows the brown/orange scheme too, as well as an overall green scheme.



The section on recce aircraft in Kerrick, Creek and Green's Luftwaffe Photo Archive only shows the almost standard colour schemes used by the original versions of the various aircraft, ie bomber schemes on Do-17Ps and fighter schemes on Me-109s and Me-110s.
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Offline Maverick

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Re: Luftwaffe WW2 reconnaisance colours
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2011, 05:53:18 am »
Euan, I've managed to acquire quite a few Luftwaffe colour scheme publications during my reset of all things lost.  Give me a few days to wander through them & I may be able to forward some art.

Regards,

Mav

Offline NARSES2

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Re: Luftwaffe WW2 reconnaisance colours
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2011, 07:38:43 am »
I've had a quick look at Michael Ullman's Lufwaffe colours and there dosn't appear to have been any specific recce colours. Most recce types were tactical and therefore used the "standard" greens. The few strategic types seem to have either used the bomber standard scheme or some "unit specific" (aircraft specific in some cases) schemes.

Chris
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Offline TallEng

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Re: Luftwaffe WW2 reconnaisance colours
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2011, 12:22:02 pm »
I did this for my Arado 234c-6



And I'm fairly sure it came either from a book on Luftwaffe camouflage or a (German) magazine article.
Unfortunately I'm at work now :banghead: and don't have access to my reference Library (he means that pile of books and magazines gathering dust on the shelves)
I'll try and look tomorrow if nobody else can/has helped.
Colours used were RLM 75 Grauviolet and your favorite version of RLM 84

P.S I'm almost certain it was from Luftwaffe colours 1935-1945 (published by Hikoki)

Regards
 Keith
« Last Edit: November 09, 2011, 07:29:53 pm by TallEng »
The British have raised their security level from "Miffed" to "Peeved". Soon though, security levels may be raised yet again to "Irritated" or even "A Bit Cross". Londoners have not been "A Bit Cross" since the Blitz in 1940 when tea supplies ran out for three weeks

Offline simmie

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Re: Luftwaffe WW2 reconnaisance colours
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2011, 04:11:46 pm »
Thanks for everything you've done chaps.

I await your stuff Mav
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Offline Geoff

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Re: Luftwaffe WW2 reconnaisance colours
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2011, 04:50:18 pm »
There was a book "Aufklarer" with schemes in but I am not sure where my copy is.

Offline TallEng

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Re: Luftwaffe WW2 reconnaisance colours
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2011, 07:33:41 pm »
There was a book "Aufklarer" with schemes in but I am not sure where my copy is.

Ooh! that rings a bell :thumbsup:
This one I think: Aufklarer: Luftwaffe Reconnaissance Aircraft and Units 1935-1945 (also by Hikoki publications)
Maybe that was the book, will look later on today when I wake up

Regards
 Keith
The British have raised their security level from "Miffed" to "Peeved". Soon though, security levels may be raised yet again to "Irritated" or even "A Bit Cross". Londoners have not been "A Bit Cross" since the Blitz in 1940 when tea supplies ran out for three weeks

Offline TallEng

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Re: Luftwaffe WW2 reconnaisance colours
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2011, 08:33:48 am »
O.K. so I've found the book and this is what it Say's

If this isn't allowed Mods please say so....

Taken direct from Aufklärer, Luftwaffe Reconnaissance Aircraft & Units 1935-1945, Authors David Wadman John Bradley Barry Ketley.
ISBN 0 9519899 8 7
Highly recommended :thumbsup: (if you like that sort of thing)

Anyway on with the info;


Between 1940 and 1943, high aItitude reconnaissance flights were carried out by specially modified Ju 86 aircraft which retained their 70/71/65 camouflage. During I941 further tests on the type were undertaken and, later that year, the camouflage changed to a neutral grey upper colour more suited to the role. This change took camouflage back to the similar overall 02 finish seen on some reconnaissance aircraft during the winter of I939/40 This scheme remained in use until the types withdrawal from service in 1944.

The arrival of the Ar 234 and the Me 262 in 1944 with their high speed and height range made the use of specialised camouflage unnecessary. Most reconnaissance Ar 234's retained their factory applied  camouflage which was intended to be 81/82/76, but which could also be used in combination with the 70/ 71/65 range. A small number of reconnaissance Me  262's were also produced, seeing service with short  range Units during the final month's Of the European  war. Camouflage for these consisted of the upper and side surfaces being finished in 76 over which was  painted a mottled pattern of 81 and 82 of varying strengths. The lower surfaces wore a finish of a mixture of 76 and primed metal.

The first batch of the new Ju 3888L-O reconnaissance aircraft saw a further adaptation of the earlier grey and  blue camouflage used by the high altitude Ju 86 aircraft. The finish for the ten L-O models was 76 for the under and side surfaces and a light strength application of 75 for the upper surfaces. The application of 75 was confined to the extreme plan view of the aircraft excepting the engine cowlings forward of the wings where the 75 was taken a little further down the side surfaces. When deliveries of the production model L1 began near the end of 1944 yet another change had occurred. The colours were still 75 and 76 but the 75 was now applied in full strength and extended down from the upper surfaces to a line level with the tailplane. The fin and rudder were given a soft mottle of 75 which varied from aircraft to aircraft.

Hope that helps.

Regards
 Keith
The British have raised their security level from "Miffed" to "Peeved". Soon though, security levels may be raised yet again to "Irritated" or even "A Bit Cross". Londoners have not been "A Bit Cross" since the Blitz in 1940 when tea supplies ran out for three weeks

Offline Taiidantomcat

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Offline PR19_Kit

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Re: Luftwaffe WW2 reconnaisance colours
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2011, 12:18:56 pm »
I'm chuckling reading this.  ;D

It didn't take too long for the thread to degenerate into us talking RLM Nos. did it?  ;D

I note that Aufklarer book didn't mention the orange/brown scheme in the RS Models kit, I thought it looked a bit odd when I found it.
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Offline Maverick

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Re: Luftwaffe WW2 reconnaisance colours
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2011, 12:42:48 pm »
It's also worth noting the units that a given aircraft come from.

The NAGr or Nahaufklarungsgruppen were short range (ie: Tactical recce)

FAGr or Feraufklarungsgruppen - long range (ie: Strategic)

HAGr Herresaufklarungsgruppen - Army (ie: Army Co-op)

etc, etc

These types of units would have a camouflage that differed widely from each other (and sometimes within unit to unit).

Regards,

Mav

Offline TallEng

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Re: Luftwaffe WW2 reconnaisance colours
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2011, 01:33:27 pm »
I'm chuckling reading this.  ;D

It didn't take too long for the thread to degenerate into us talking RLM Nos. did it?  ;D

No.... that's the trouble with the Luftwaffe stuff, its all very German with precise numbers, and laid down exactly how it was to be done etc etc,
and then you find that it was anything but, and loads of lovely deviations from standard schemes... and then people telling you the exact colour from a black and white photo that's probably over 40 years old, and might have been taken with or with out a filter, and then processed under wartime conditions... :blink: How exact is that?
 which is good 'cos you can be as accurate as your paint selection is :thumbsup:  

I note that Aufklarer book didn't mention the orange/brown scheme in the RS Models kit, I thought it looked a bit odd when I found it.

Well... I didn't copy the whole chapter, but it did say most recce Aircraft operated in the standard for that particular Aircraft scheme, according to theater of operations.... And the guy's with the paint pots ;D

So I guess your orange/brown scheme might represent a Sqn operating in the desert. which might make the colour scheme (depending on where they obtained/nicked the paint from) Giallo Mimetico or Middle stone, or possibly RLM 26 or 79 ;D

Regards
 Keith



« Last Edit: November 10, 2011, 04:01:41 pm by TallEng »
The British have raised their security level from "Miffed" to "Peeved". Soon though, security levels may be raised yet again to "Irritated" or even "A Bit Cross". Londoners have not been "A Bit Cross" since the Blitz in 1940 when tea supplies ran out for three weeks

Offline Pablo1965

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Re: Luftwaffe WW2 reconnaisance colours
« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2011, 02:12:23 pm »
Thanks, very interesting. :thumbsup:

Offline Maverick

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Re: Luftwaffe WW2 reconnaisance colours
« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2011, 03:45:58 pm »
Well... I didn't copy the whole chapter, but it did say most recce Aircraft operated in the standard for that particular Aircraft scheme, according to theater of operations.... And the guy's with the pant pots ;D

So I guess your orange/brown scheme might represent a Sqn operating in the desert. which might make the colour scheme (depending on where they obtained/nicked the paint from) Giallo Mimetico or Middle stone, or possibly RLM 26 or 79 ;D

Regards
 Keith

Keith, given the rather specialist nature of the high-altitude Ju-86s, I'd think it more a European based aircraft with perhaps a factory paintjob rather than a desert one.

Regards,

Mav