Author Topic: An odd couple (Italian Zero)  (Read 2110 times)

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Offline Pablo1965

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An odd couple (Italian Zero)
« on: May 22, 2011, 04:07:55 pm »
An even stranger of devoid scale models without cockpit arrived at my meetings in a single box. Two Zeros to 1/72, the first was of Heller, the other of Matchbox, after analyzing them I reached the conclusion that the “Zero” of Heller was another different airplane, or a Zero badly copied by an inept, clumsy industrial spy or relative of “Clusoe Inspector”. But the fact, I have the idea, which the origin of the power plant of the zero and the the Italian fighters  was the same one... the Gnome Rhone 14N and that therefore, to give an Italian air to the Japanese motors was not a preposterous idea. Perhaps the looked for reason, was the enormous autonomy of the A6m, being able to make the phrase real of… “the best aircraft carrier is Italy” that, on the other hand, was not certain in the parameters of reach of the Italian fighters of the moment.



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« Last Edit: May 22, 2011, 04:12:06 pm by Pablo1965 »

Offline sequoiaranger

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Fabulous Oddity
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2011, 05:53:32 pm »
I like the way those look!

I have not yet decided whether I will build a "Tony"---an Italian Ki.61. I have had that idea kicking around in my head for decades, but...??

I enjoyed painting and decorating my "Heinkel He-113M" in Italian paint and markings (ultimately overpainting them in German).  Maybe I'm just a sucker for tan-and-green mottle.

I, too, have heard rumors (mainly wartime rumors) that the Sakae engines were "copies" of Western engines, but I have never found any "proof". Certainly the Japanese bought and studied Western aircraft and engines, but ultimately made their own designs. I think except for the "Tabby" transport (DC-3) and a very few "Liz" bombers (DC-4), there were no copies made of Western designs that made it to the battlefields of WW II.

I should think that Germany would have done well to copy Japanese navy carrier aircraft instead of the lash-ups of land planes that Germany tried to adapt to carrier use. Of course I modeled some of those!  :wacko:
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Offline Pablo1965

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Re: Fabulous Oddity
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2011, 06:49:43 pm »
I like the way those look!
I have not yet decided whether I will build a "Tony"---an Italian Ki.61. I have had that idea kicking around in my head for decades, but...??
I enjoyed painting and decorating my "Heinkel He-113M" in Italian paint and markings (ultimately overpainting them in German).  Maybe I'm just a sucker for tan-and-green mottle.
I, too, have heard rumors (mainly wartime rumors) that the Sakae engines were "copies" of Western engines, but I have never found any "proof". Certainly the Japanese bought and studied Western aircraft and engines, but ultimately made their own designs. I think except for the "Tabby" transport (DC-3) and a very few "Liz" bombers (DC-4), there were no copies made of Western designs that made it to the battlefields of WW II.
I should think that Germany would have done well to copy Japanese navy carrier aircraft instead of the lash-ups of land planes that Germany tried to adapt to carrier use. Of course I modeled some of those!  :wacko:

I saw a Tony paint in italian scheme and in first look seems a Macchi 205 or 202
The Gnome Rhone sale his patent (licence) to Italy and Japan when the peace time seems permanent.
And about the German navy carrier aircraft, the Bf109T was a good solution, but I think a radial engine could be better like in the Bf109X
Thanks and regards
« Last Edit: May 22, 2011, 06:51:16 pm by Pablo1965 »

Offline GTX

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Re: An odd couple (Italian Zero)
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2011, 01:07:21 am »
 :thumbsup:
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

Offline Brian da Basher

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Re: An odd couple (Italian Zero)
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2011, 03:12:26 am »
Very well done, Pablo! The Gnome-Rhone engine thing is entirely plausable as the Germans used them after they took France (most notably in the Henschel 129 tank buster) and it's not much of a stretch to have the Italians using them too.

You've done some excellent paintwork on the "sand and spinach" scheme!
 :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Brian da Basher

Offline NARSES2

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Re: An odd couple (Italian Zero)
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2011, 07:17:39 am »
Really nice - love most things Italian  :wub:
Decals my @r$e!

Offline Pablo1965

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Re: An odd couple (Italian Zero)
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2011, 10:24:54 am »
This couple of kits was made without ambition, I only was surprised for the resemblance between the italian and nippon models.
Thanks


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Offline joncarrfarrelly

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Re: An odd couple (Italian Zero)
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2011, 10:48:28 am »
Nice looking Pablo.

Further to Craig's comments, the Nakajima and Mitsubishi engine designs were derived from Pratt & Whitney, Curtiss-Wright
and Bristol antecedents rather than the Gnome-Rhone 14 series. Anyhow the GR14 engines were directly based on
Bristol designs and patents.

The Fiat A.74 to A.82 series engines were primarily their own work, and the Alfa-Romeo radials were Bristol licensed/based.

A Polish journal published some drawings based on wind-tunnel models that that they claim show early
12-shi fighter (later A6M) layouts. The models are interesting, however personally speaking I find the
drawings a case of making the facts (the models) fit a preconceived notion, in this case that the models
are early 'Zero' configurations. Anyhow, one of them does look a lot like your Italian Zero.

The image was originally posted on the Secretprojects forum.


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Offline Pablo1965

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Re: An odd couple (Italian Zero)
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2011, 01:40:12 pm »
Nice looking Pablo.
Further to Craig's comments, the Nakajima and Mitsubishi engine designs were derived from Pratt & Whitney, Curtiss-Wright
and Bristol antecedents rather than the Gnome-Rhone 14 series. Anyhow the GR14 engines were directly based on
Bristol designs and patents.
The Fiat A.74 to A.82 series engines were primarily their own work, and the Alfa-Romeo radials were Bristol licensed/based.
A Polish journal published some drawings based on wind-tunnel models that that they claim show early
12-shi fighter (later A6M) layouts. The models are interesting, however personally speaking I find the
drawings a case of making the facts (the models) fit a preconceived notion, in this case that the models
are early 'Zero' configurations. Anyhow, one of them does look a lot like your Italian Zero.
The image was originally posted on the Secretprojects forum.


Thanks for your solid words, my humble works seems less strange :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :bow:



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Offline Taiidantomcat

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Re: An odd couple (Italian Zero)
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2011, 02:57:09 pm »
They really look good! Very Italian.  :wub:
"Imagination is the one weapon in the war against reality." -Jules de Gaultier

"My model is right! It's the real world that's wrong!" -global warming scientist

An armor guy, who builds airplanes almost exclusively, that he converts to space fighters-- all while admiring ship models.

Offline Pablo1965

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Re: An odd couple (Italian Zero)
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2011, 07:35:50 am »
Thanks Taiidan... Ah! the exact developement of the Gnome Rhone 14N was the Nakajima Sakae not the mitshubishi Kinsei its origin was the Pratt and whitney R-1680, the fact was in 1941 both engine was too old compared with the Pratt & whitney R-1830 or R-2300.