Author Topic: Vulcan trainer, the Jet Provost T6  (Read 11384 times)

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Offline PR19_Kit

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Vulcan trainer, the Jet Provost T6
« on: April 10, 2009, 03:07:09 pm »
While we were at Cosford at the weekend we shared Hangar 2 with some excellent experimental aircraft, one of which was the Avro 707C WZ744, the prototype of the proposed 2-seat trainer for the Vulcan programme. In the end the MoD cancelled the production order for the rest of the 707Cs leaving '744 as a singleton. The a/c was later moved to A&AEE Boscombe Down for many years (no, she never was painted in Raspberry Ripple............) and later at Farnborough until being taken on charge as a museum exhibit in 1967.

This meant the RAF never did have a pure delta trainer, apart from the Javelin T3, so prospective Vulcan pilots had to learn their trade on non-delta aircraft before converting to 'the real thing' at RAF Waddington when posted to 230 OCU.

So suppose in the mid-60s Bomber Command found it started having problems with pilots getting used to the high angle of attack approaches needed for landing a Vulcan and required a new delta trainer...........?

Watch this space........... ;)
« Last Edit: April 12, 2009, 08:10:30 am by PR19_Kit »
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Offline nev

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Re: Vulcan trainers
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2009, 11:53:49 pm »
Reminds me of the Skyray that the USN Test Pilots School used in the 60s - "So pilots would have experience of flying a plane with poor handling qualities" :o
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Offline Howard of Effingham

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Re: Vulcan trainers
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2009, 02:04:26 am »
here's hoping this won't upset anybody!  ;D
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Offline PR19_Kit

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Re: Vulcan trainers
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2009, 02:12:55 am »
here's hoping this won't upset anybody!  ;D

Howard,

As if.............  :lol:

And Overkiller's on the right tack, but wrong airframe to start with.
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Offline Martin H

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Re: Vulcan trainers
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2009, 03:03:41 am »
Delta winged Lightning by any chance?
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Offline Runway ? ...

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Re: Vulcan trainers
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2009, 05:13:57 am »
A glass nosed Vulcan for the training pilot or an extra cockpit grafted on where the backseaters should live or a twin Vulcan with two complete crews in the different noses or.. or ...     ;)     
« Last Edit: April 11, 2009, 05:29:56 am by Runway ? ... »

Online Mossie

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Re: Vulcan trainers
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2009, 05:54:39 am »
Javelin seems a natural, they were being reitred in droves in the sixties.  But a JP with delta might work for something a bit lighter & less expensive (& look roughly on the lines of the 707), or maybe even a Gnat!
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Offline PR19_Kit

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Re: Vulcan trainers
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2009, 08:32:18 am »
But a JP with delta might work for something a bit lighter & less expensive (& look roughly on the lines of the 707)

Got it Mossie.  ;D  :thumbsup:

It's an Airfix Strikemaster/JP5 with the wings from an ancient, part built, FD2 that I found in The Loft. They fit amazingly well, even the bulge round the intakes fits! I'm trying to figure out what to use as a fin as the JP one looks silly with those wings. Perhaps carve the FD2 fin to a pseudo-Vulcan shape?

And what colour scheme? Silver with yellow bands would look great, but the RAF had switched to red/white by then. I toyed with painting it in low level camo, but it would look just like a toy Vulcan......
Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

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Kit

Online Mossie

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Re: Vulcan trainers
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2009, 09:51:37 am »
It's just a detail, but the blue Cranwell band might add a little to the red/white scheme.  A display team might just fit in if it was before 1965 or possibly even the Red Arrows?  A pre Raspberry Ripple ETPS bird might have worn pretty much anything in the late sixties, your 'Testing Colours' book might yield some inspiration???
I don't think it's nice, you laughin'. You see, my mule don't like people laughin'. He gets the crazy idea you're laughin' at him. Now if you apologize, like I know you're going to, I might convince him that you really didn't mean it.

Offline PR19_Kit

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Re: Vulcan trainers
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2009, 10:43:01 am »
Only 18.50 for a resin T.7 conversion, now to figure out what to use for the wings.....

Duncan,

Ouch, that's heavy money! How about a Matchbox T7 off eBay, assuming you can find one, and stick that onto the Revell F6? Who does that resin conversion anyway?

It's just a detail, but the blue Cranwell band might add a little to the red/white scheme.  A display team might just fit in if it was before 1965 or possibly even the Red Arrows?  A pre Raspberry Ripple ETPS bird might have worn pretty much anything in the late sixties, your 'Testing Colours' book might yield some inspiration???

Mossie,

So many schemes, so little time.  ;D (and so few FD2s to make them as well!)

I like the idea of the Cranwell band, and the early ripple scheme too, but it's meant to be with 230 OCU at Waddington.

Maybe a pseudo-mini-Vulcan display team? The Red Wedges perhaps?
Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

Regards
Kit

Offline Weaver

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Re: Vulcan trainers
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2009, 01:53:40 pm »
But a JP with delta might work for something a bit lighter & less expensive (& look roughly on the lines of the 707)

Got it Mossie.  ;D  :thumbsup:

It's an Airfix Strikemaster/JP5 with the wings from an ancient, part built, FD2 that I found in The Loft. They fit amazingly well, even the bulge round the intakes fits! I'm trying to figure out what to use as a fin as the JP one looks silly with those wings. Perhaps carve the FD2 fin to a pseudo-Vulcan shape?

Airfix Gnat? Cheap as chips and you can chop as many of those damn things up as you like with my blessing....

It does look right with a delta too - exhibit a:



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Offline PR19_Kit

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Re: Vulcan trainers
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2009, 04:29:34 pm »
Duncan,

Gotcha, I should have guessed!

Those guys make good stuff but they seem to be trying to fix a Belgian-UK balance of payments problem all on their own. Don't Aeroclub still do their vacform T7 conversion? I found one in my Loft only tonight, looks quite nice too.

Airfix Gnat? Cheap as chips and you can chop as many of those damn things up as you like with my blessing....

It does look right with a delta too - exhibit a:

Weaver,

That does look the business indeed! And I like the little radar nose too.

I wanted a side by side config. though, to go with the Vulcan setup, and I've already started cutting plastic, pics tomorrow with luck. Darned if I know what to do about the landing gear, the JP5 wheels are wider than the FD2 wings at that fore and aft position. I may have to go with shortened FD2 lever action legs.

And quite what I'll do with all the bits left over I have no idea!
Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

Regards
Kit

Offline PR19_Kit

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Re: Vulcan trainers
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2009, 07:01:24 pm »
I played around with a JP5 drawing I found on the net, added a Vulcan shaped fin and roughed in the delta wing shape.

Any thoughts about this?
« Last Edit: November 03, 2017, 03:26:21 pm by PR19_Kit »
Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

Regards
Kit

Offline PR19_Kit

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Re: Vulcan trainers
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2009, 02:38:35 am »
It may do, but it'd be difficult to modify the kit to do it. I was thinking of raising the leading edge further up the intakes instead. I'll be trying exactly that later today, fingers crossed...........
Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

Regards
Kit

Offline PR19_Kit

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Re: Vulcan trainers
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2009, 08:09:04 am »
Right, it's all happening now........  :lol:

First shots of the modded FD2 wing attached to the JP5 fuse with the mini-Vulcan fin core taped in position. The wing has the Phase 2 leading edge added from a strip of styrene and there's some packing glued between the root and fuse, but not much. There's a socking great hole underneath of course, where the JP5's wing carry-through structure went, and I'll fill that with part of the old wing, but I forsee hours of PSR work.  :angry:

Won't be much progress next week or the one after as I'm having to do some work for the 'old firm', but at least I'll get paid for it!  ;D :lol:
Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

Regards
Kit