Author Topic: BAE Hawk and T-45 Goshawk  (Read 24212 times)

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Offline ysi_maniac

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BAE Hawk and T-45 Goshawk
« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2007, 12:11:06 pm »
^^^^^
What if a naval Hawk 200? Take a Matchbox Hawk 200 and an Italeri Goshawk (both from ebay)

Additionally, I am thinking in a supersonic (mach 1.6 or so) Hawk 200, Hawk 300 could be the name:
wings and tailplane from F-16
pointed nose
intakes from a Tiger II / F-20 (not sure in this point)
powered by a RB-199 from a Tornado

What do you think?
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Offline elmayerle

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« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2007, 10:53:33 pm »
Considering how similar in appearance the Hawk and the Soko Super-Galeb are, how about a sale of Hawks to Yugoslavia instead of their building the Super-Galeb?  Perhaps because they kept their association with Hawker after WW II with land-based Sea Hawks instead of straight-winged F-84s and Hunters instead of F-86s?  There's a red, white, and blue aerobatic team marking for the Super Galeb on a decal sheet by Lift Here that looks like it'd be perfect for a Hawk.
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Offline waynos

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BAE Hawk and T-45 Goshawk
« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2007, 04:03:29 am »
I did a pair of supersonic Hawks in a similar fashion to that described above, they were a RSAF Hawk 300 - Italeri Hawk 100 with EJ200 nozzle and widened and enlarged rear fuselage, and an Indonesian Hawk 400 - Same as before but mated to Matchbox Hawk 200 front end plus PIRATE IRST. Here; I did also toy with the idea of doing a USMC 'A-45E Sparrowhawk' with another matchbox Hawk 200 and a T-45.





« Last Edit: November 08, 2007, 10:17:06 am by waynos »

Offline PolluxDeltaSeven

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« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2007, 09:05:33 am »
An armed Goshawk was one of my plane for a Brazilian Navy fighter.

The first batch could be two-seater Goshawk with no radar, but laser pod and GBU ability, with Sidewinder on the wing tips and Maverick under the wings. The Brazilian Navy could play and train with them for few years, replacing its older A-4, waiting for the end of development of the second batch.

This Second Batch will be fully operationnal as a multimode  naval light fighter. They will have a more powerfull ADOUR engine, a multipurpose radar (APG-66 or a more modern RDY-3 radar) and maybe a FLIR, just like on the Harrier II +.

For the weapon, they could have an lage variety of payload:
-BVR missiles (AMRAAM, MICA or DERBY)
-Light air-to-ground missiles (Brimstone, AASM, Maverick)
-laser and GPS guided weapons (Paveway II/III, AASM, JDAM, Enhanced Paveway or Pave IV, maybe JSOW)
-Light anti-ship missiles (AASM -yes, one more time!!-, Penguin or NSM missiles)
-Anti-radar missiles (AASM-I know I know, but it's a multipurpose modular weapon!-, ALARM, does Harm fit under such a small aircraft?)


I spend an hour the other day to draw the possible weapon configuration for an armed variant of the Goshawk. I even do the same with the Alpha Jet, imagining he won the deal (the advantage of the Apha Jet is that it could carry bit missiles like Harpoon or Storm Shadow, better for whifing!!)
 
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Offline GTX

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BAE Hawk and T-45 Goshawk
« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2007, 10:28:18 pm »
How about a Hawk derived UCAV - the nice people at the A.S.Yakovlev Design Bureau have proposed a UCAV (they call it an Unmanned Reconnaissance Striker Aircraft) variant after all:



I think the Hawk would provide a good basis for a UCAV, if only a demonstration one.

Regards,

Greg
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Offline elmayerle

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« Reply #20 on: November 08, 2007, 11:18:51 pm »
Quote
An armed Goshawk was one of my plane for a Brazilian Navy fighter.

The first batch could be two-seater Goshawk with no radar, but laser pod and GBU ability, with Sidewinder on the wing tips and Maverick under the wings. The Brazilian Navy could play and train with them for few years, replacing its older A-4, waiting for the end of development of the second batch.

This Second Batch will be fully operationnal as a multimode  naval light fighter. They will have a more powerfull ADOUR engine, a multipurpose radar (APG-66 or a more modern RDY-3 radar) and maybe a FLIR, just like on the Harrier II +.

For the weapon, they could have an lage variety of payload:
-BVR missiles (AMRAAM, MICA or DERBY)
-Light air-to-ground missiles (Brimstone, AASM, Maverick)
-laser and GPS guided weapons (Paveway II/III, AASM, JDAM, Enhanced Paveway or Pave IV, maybe JSOW)
-Light anti-ship missiles (AASM -yes, one more time!!-, Penguin or NSM missiles)
-Anti-radar missiles (AASM-I know I know, but it's a multipurpose modular weapon!-, ALARM, does Harm fit under such a small aircraft?)


I spend an hour the other day to draw the possible weapon configuration for an armed variant of the Goshawk. I even do the same with the Alpha Jet, imagining he won the deal (the advantage of the Apha Jet is that it could carry bit missiles like Harpoon or Storm Shadow, better for whifing!!)
Just a thought, do the first batch with the Hawk 100 nose and have the laser pod's functions built in, freeing hardpoints for weaponry.
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Offline AeroplaneDriver

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BAE Hawk and T-45 Goshawk
« Reply #21 on: November 10, 2007, 03:10:58 pm »
Quote
Quote
An armed Goshawk was one of my plane for a Brazilian Navy fighter.

The first batch could be two-seater Goshawk with no radar, but laser pod and GBU ability, with Sidewinder on the wing tips and Maverick under the wings. The Brazilian Navy could play and train with them for few years, replacing its older A-4, waiting for the end of development of the second batch.

This Second Batch will be fully operationnal as a multimode  naval light fighter. They will have a more powerfull ADOUR engine, a multipurpose radar (APG-66 or a more modern RDY-3 radar) and maybe a FLIR, just like on the Harrier II +.

For the weapon, they could have an lage variety of payload:
-BVR missiles (AMRAAM, MICA or DERBY)
-Light air-to-ground missiles (Brimstone, AASM, Maverick)
-laser and GPS guided weapons (Paveway II/III, AASM, JDAM, Enhanced Paveway or Pave IV, maybe JSOW)
-Light anti-ship missiles (AASM -yes, one more time!!-, Penguin or NSM missiles)
-Anti-radar missiles (AASM-I know I know, but it's a multipurpose modular weapon!-, ALARM, does Harm fit under such a small aircraft?)


I spend an hour the other day to draw the possible weapon configuration for an armed variant of the Goshawk. I even do the same with the Alpha Jet, imagining he won the deal (the advantage of the Apha Jet is that it could carry bit missiles like Harpoon or Storm Shadow, better for whifing!!)
Just a thought, do the first batch with the Hawk 100 nose and have the laser pod's functions built in, freeing hardpoints for weaponry.
IIRC the -100 only has a Ferranti laser rangefinder, similar the the Jaguar and Harrier GR.3, not a full laser designating capability such as TIALD or LITENING.

The Hawk 200 also carried Sea Eagles during trials, so dont underestimate it's capability to carry big hardware
So I got that going for me...which is nice....

Offline PolluxDeltaSeven

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« Reply #22 on: November 10, 2007, 05:49:31 pm »
Quote
The Hawk 200 also carried Sea Eagles during trials, so dont underestimate it's capability to carry big hardware
I thought the wings were not high enough to allowed such carriage, I'm glad to hear that  I was wrong, it's better for whiffery (don't worry, I didn't underestimate its carriage ability in terms of weight but in term of size)


Is there any picture of the Hawk with heavy payload? I never saw one of them and never red that the Sea Eagle was in the Hawk weapon package. Is that because the integration of the missile was impossible or just because no customer paid for it?

Last question: do you think that a Storm Shadow could fit under its wings (well, no real need for that, but it could look cool, right??)? Maybe a SLAM-ER is a better solution.
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Offline GTX

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« Reply #23 on: November 10, 2007, 09:26:13 pm »
Of course that raises a sobering thought - Indonesian Hawk 200s loaded with Sea Eagles - that could make life interesting for the RAN.  Even more sobering - the same scenario with the added fun twist of a radical Indonesian Caliphate following a coup or similar.

Regards,

Greg  
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« Reply #24 on: November 10, 2007, 09:28:24 pm »
Of course a USN twist on this idea would be for T-45s to be equipped to carry an AGM-84 Harpoon!

Regards,

Greg
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Offline elmayerle

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« Reply #25 on: November 10, 2007, 10:30:57 pm »
Quote
Quote
Quote
An armed Goshawk was one of my plane for a Brazilian Navy fighter.

The first batch could be two-seater Goshawk with no radar, but laser pod and GBU ability, with Sidewinder on the wing tips and Maverick under the wings. The Brazilian Navy could play and train with them for few years, replacing its older A-4, waiting for the end of development of the second batch.

This Second Batch will be fully operationnal as a multimode  naval light fighter. They will have a more powerfull ADOUR engine, a multipurpose radar (APG-66 or a more modern RDY-3 radar) and maybe a FLIR, just like on the Harrier II +.

For the weapon, they could have an lage variety of payload:
-BVR missiles (AMRAAM, MICA or DERBY)
-Light air-to-ground missiles (Brimstone, AASM, Maverick)
-laser and GPS guided weapons (Paveway II/III, AASM, JDAM, Enhanced Paveway or Pave IV, maybe JSOW)
-Light anti-ship missiles (AASM -yes, one more time!!-, Penguin or NSM missiles)
-Anti-radar missiles (AASM-I know I know, but it's a multipurpose modular weapon!-, ALARM, does Harm fit under such a small aircraft?)


I spend an hour the other day to draw the possible weapon configuration for an armed variant of the Goshawk. I even do the same with the Alpha Jet, imagining he won the deal (the advantage of the Apha Jet is that it could carry bit missiles like Harpoon or Storm Shadow, better for whifing!!)
Just a thought, do the first batch with the Hawk 100 nose and have the laser pod's functions built in, freeing hardpoints for weaponry.
IIRC the -100 only has a Ferranti laser rangefinder, similar the the Jaguar and Harrier GR.3, not a full laser designating capability such as TIALD or LITENING.
 
That still gives it sufficient volume to mount a more capable system, though you might need to tweak the optical window a bit to fit it.
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Offline MartG

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BAE Hawk and T-45 Goshawk
« Reply #26 on: November 11, 2007, 01:27:08 am »
Quote
Is there any picture of the Hawk with heavy payload? I never saw one of them and never red that the Sea Eagle was in the Hawk weapon package.
I saw a pic of one years ago with a Sea Eagle on the centreline pylon, fuel tanks on the inner wing pylons
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Offline PolluxDeltaSeven

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« Reply #27 on: November 11, 2007, 08:04:56 am »
I spend some times looking for informations about the Hawk, and I find some interresting stuffs, some of them well known:

-The Hawk could carry twin stores rack under it's 4 wings pylons. Do anyone has a picture of them? Maybe we could easily scratch them.

-The Hawk 200 demonstrator had twin 25mm gun in the nose! Well, someone knows where and how they fit in? I mean, are they placed in the nose instead of the radar or added to it, like on the F-20??
Could we imaging other solutions, like a twin 20mm gun?
 
-The Goshawk was proposed with a Garrett F124. Considering that the F124-GA-100 have a 6300lb thrust (against 5900 for the Adour 900, but I don't know the Adour 951 thrust), we could imagine a new Hawk with a more powerfull F124 for better performances and payload abilities.
Is there any other possibilty for a new engine or a new variant of the Adour? Maybe something that could push to 7000 or 8000lb??
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Offline AeroplaneDriver

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BAE Hawk and T-45 Goshawk
« Reply #28 on: November 11, 2007, 09:23:42 am »
Quote
I spend some times looking for informations about the Hawk, and I find some interresting stuffs, some of them well known:

-The Hawk could carry twin stores rack under it's 4 wings pylons. Do anyone has a picture of them? Maybe we could easily scratch them.

-The Hawk 200 demonstrator had twin 25mm gun in the nose! Well, someone knows where and how they fit in? I mean, are they placed in the nose instead of the radar or added to it, like on the F-20??
Could we imaging other solutions, like a twin 20mm gun?
 
-The Goshawk was proposed with a Garrett F124. Considering that the F124-GA-100 have a 6300lb thrust (against 5900 for the Adour 900, but I don't know the Adour 951 thrust), we could imagine a new Hawk with a more powerfull F124 for better performances and payload abilities.
Is there any other possibilty for a new engine or a new variant of the Adour? Maybe something that could push to 7000 or 8000lb??
Anyone interested in the Hawk should try to pick up a copy of 'British Aerosapce Hawk' from Osprey by Roy Braybrook.  It's an older book (1984), but has some great info and ots of whif inspiration.

A few tidbits from this book:

-Pics of the G-HAWK BAe demonstrator with 8 X 500lb bombs on the twin carriers.  It looks like they are the same type of twin carriers used on Harrier GR.3s in the 70s-80s.  

-Artists inpression of a Hawk 200 with a Sea Eagle on centerline.  This was the actual trialed installation also, with a pic of xx258 (leased to BAe from the RAF) with a centerline Sea Eagle.

-Pics of a Hawk 60 in flight with 36 BAP-100 runway cratering bombs (9 per hardpoint).

-Pics of various Hawks fitted with Mk 46 torpedoes (4) and ALARM (2).

-Cutaway drawing of the Hawk 200 nose section, showing the ADEN 25 cannon location-in the lower fwd fuselage, approximately adjacent to the intake, under the pilot, with the end of the barrel under the electronmics compartment in front of the windscreen, flanking the nosegear.

Arthur Reed's 'BAe Hawk' from the Ian Allan Modern Combat Aircraft series (#20), is another good Hawk book.  From this one I found:

-Pic of the -200 demonstrator at Farnborough '84 dispayed carrying ALARM, and with Magic, AMRAAM, Sparrow (or Skyflash?), and ASRAAAM missiles dispayed in front of it.

-Pics of G-HAWK in flight with Magic AAMs, another inflight pic with 4 X 1000lb bombs, and a pic on the ground with 5 X 1000lb bombs (one on centerline).

-A better pic of the 8 X 500lb installation on a Zimbabwe Mk60, confriming the Harrier-type twin-carriers.

-Trails pics with 4 X BL755 CBUs.

-Trials pics with 4 X LAU51 rocket pods

-Artists impression of a -100 (though with a Mk60 nose) with 2 X Sea Eagles on the outboard pylons (seems a bit heavy for the outboards!).

-More pics of the Sea Eagle, BAP100, and torpedo trials listed above.



As far as the Adour 951, it is rated at 6,500lb I think, so growth to 7,000lb doesnt seem out of the question.  Since the -200 has (I think) the 5,700lb Adour 861, it would seem that an upgrade with the 951 would give a decent performance boost.

I could really get into this thread, since I love the Hawk.  It really has virtually unlimited whif potential since:

-Decent 1/72 and 1/48 kits available at good prices.
-Not much shelf space, even for 1/48.
-Cheap enough for just about any air force

I just wish Italeri would do a -200 in 1/72!

Some whif backstories I would like to pursue at some point include:

RAF 200s-order for around 100 airframes towards the end of the Cold War

RAF 100 series in combat-similar to the USAF Firehawk I built for service in Afghanistan.

Naval 100/200s in RN, RCN, RAN colors.







 
So I got that going for me...which is nice....

Offline AeroplaneDriver

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« Reply #29 on: November 11, 2007, 10:03:33 am »
OK, here's an expanded RAF Hawk FG.2 backstory-

The Tornado F.2 is unable to overcome its technical issues and is cancelled.  The RAF order F-14s as long range interceptors, but due to cost a smaller number, say 100 are all that can be bought.  To supplement this force the RAF orders 100 Hawk 200s to serve as Skyflash (and later AMRAAM) armed short range interceptors.  They have a secondary CAS role carrying BL755s and Matra rocket pods.  

In the mid-1990s they are upgraded to FG.3 standard with Adour Mk.871, full glass cockpit, and the ability to carry TIALD, Paveway, ALARM, and later, Brimstone.
So I got that going for me...which is nice....