Char B1 Manufactured In Usa?

[nev]

Whilst reading this months MM, in an article by Steve Zaloga building another one of the those obscure French armoured carriers (sorry JC ), he mentions that it was one of a number of weapons systems that France wanted America to license build for them.

Also included in the list was the Char B1.  Now of course that never happened as France fell, but what if....?

I'm thinking America builds a load, but they never get delivered after the fall of France, and rather like aircraft like the Maryland they get transferred to a desperate Britain, where they see service in the desert.  Due to the fact that it was actually quite a decent tank for its time Britain wants more, so America continues production and is still making them by the time the USA enters the war.

US Army Char B1s coming ashore during Operation Torch anyone?

Obviously there's the excellent (but pricey) Tamiya kit in 1/35, but what about braille scale?  Didn't Matchbox do one?

[GTX]

Interesting idea - maybe the Americans decide to simply produce the Char B1 instead of the M3 Lee.  Of course upgrade would be interesting too.  Maybe a French General's name too.

Regards,

Greg

[philp]

Matchbox did one in 1/76 that came with a Renault FT-17.
ROG has rereleased this if I recall.

Think the Char would look neat in the British tricolor camo used in the desert or in Torch markings.

Neat idea.

[Archibald]

You really have to try FFO "France Fights On" ("La France continue.org" in french).

Also included in the list was the Char B1. Now of course that never happened as France fell, but what if....?

Just try to type "France Fights On" on Google and have a look to this alt-history.

France decide to keep fighting from its Northern African empire  instead of capitulation.
Petain is ousted by a coalition led by Paul Reynaud, which is backed by Blum, Mendes-France, De Gaulle, Mandel...

And well, French armies receive lot of military hardware from the USA... but there's also some french tanks produced in the USA.    

Btw in the late 30's  successive french governements  were not very confident about the military industry, so they decided that best solution was to ask the USA to the rescue.

Best example being french aircrafts having subvariants powered by american engines.
The D-520 was to become the D-522 with an Allison V-1710.

[Thorvic]

Char 1 B in Modelzone Sale

Nev

Its currently on clearance at Modelzone

G

[elmayerle]

Interesting idea - maybe the Americans decide to simply produce the Char B1 instead of the M3 Lee.  Of course upgrade would be interesting too.  Maybe a French General's name too.

Lafayette, perhaps?

[GTX]

Works for me - the M3 Lafayette perhaps?

Regards,

Greg

[nev]

Good call, so what about upgrades?

[NARSES2]

Not only Char B Nev (I have at least 2 Revel/Matchbox ones) but how about an R-35 in the light tank role and the S-35 in the medium ? The S-35 was possibly the best tank in it's class at the time. So with US automotive parts and radios could have been used through 1943 at least. Now I swear there is a 1/72/76 S-35 - Heller ?

Chris

[Jschmus]

Good call, so what about upgrades?

For starters, replace the 47mm pop gun with an American 37mm pop gun, or maybe a 40mm Bofors for rapid-fire infantry support.  The 75mm howitzer (did I read that right?) in the hull could be swapped for a proper 75 or 76mm tank gun, with follow-on versions sporting 90mm or 105.

For operations in areas where the Allies did not have air superiority, the turret could be replaced with the Maxson M45F AAA mount, with 4 .50 machine guns.  Then, once air superiority/supremacy was achieved, these could be used to great effect in the infantry support role.

[NARSES2]

Not sure the 47mm/37mm or 75mm/US 75mm swaps would have any advantage - have to find my AT capability charts (no idea where they are). As for any other high velocity gun don't think the suspension would take it ? However a heavier infantry support gun should be no problem.

The main problem with most French tanks was the one man turret. The commander had to command the tank and load/aim/fire the main AT weapon. That's the problem that need addresing.

So the Char B! in the infantry support role and an improved S-35 in the tank v tank role

Chris

[JC Carbonel]

In "Ailes Françaises" there have been mention of the Amiot 351 being built in the US, too. It sure would look nice in US markings too ...as B25 replacement ...

JCC

[Archibald]

Interestingly in the "France fights on" scenario the B-25 replace the Amiot 351  

[Joe C-P]

The commander also had to operate the radio. That could have been corrected by moving the radio to the hull, putting the antenna "aft". I don't know about the internal arrangements, if a crewman could have at least helped by loading and firing the gun after the commander aimed.

Free French units could have been so armed. They could have been equipped with a range of such equipment built in the US - tanks, planes, small ships.

How about the Far East? Say the Vichy end up fighting in Indochina; the Royal Navy become reluctant to prevent them resupplying troops there after the events of Mers-el-Kebir, plus the presence of French forces distracts the Japanese, who want those territories but are unwilling to fight a "friendly" nation's forces. Maybe the RN even allows French naval units and transports to travel there (escorted by RN units, for their own safety, of course), getting them away from Nazi hands and adding a deterrent to Japanese attempts to offer "aid".