Panam Orions Spaceships

[Archibald]

July 1969 was a bright month for NASA. Budget cuts threats were scrapped, and the service received at least decent fundings for its shuttle concept.
30 months of concepts review later, in early 1972, NASA anounced definitive concept of its shuttle program. First generation shuttle would have SSME and expendable drop tank, plus booster for take off. According to technological breaktrough, a signle stage orbiter would be built in the next 15 years, using the same booster.
Problem was the definition of the booster itself had yet to be fixed. 3 options were studied, a Saturne V S-1 derivative, a pressure-fed (no turbopumps) "big dumb booster" or SRBs.
After fierce debates the pressure-fed option was elected. It had both advantages of SRB (a simple and very powerful booster) and Saturn V liquid-fed boosters (shut them if there's a problem). Even better, its thick-walled casing made it easy to recover at sea.

So a huge, liquid propellant booster was mated at the rear of the Shuttle external tank. The pressure-fed technology was a major breaktrough in diminishing costs of space launch. After the Shuttle first missions to Skylab in late 1978, pressure-fed boosters demonstrated their abilities.

At the same time PanAm lobbying managed to avoid deregulation of air transports. The project was pushed aside in 1978.

After the introduction of the 2707 in 1974, PanAm passengers asked for even more speed. Answer to this could only be a spaceplane, but this was a very, very long haul.
In May 1981, PanAm announced the creation of PanAm Galactic Express, which aim was to set up an orbital spaceplane in the year 1999. First step on this road was called the Orion I.
Using the Big dumb booster as basis, Lockheed ingeneers created the first suborbital spaceplane. On a parabolic, 50 mn flight the spacecraft was to top at 110 km height, giving passengers 4 minutes of Zero-G.

The Orion was basically a cross between a shuttle booster and a Falcon 20 bizjet, a bizjet PanAm knew rather well. In fact Orion I wings, and jets pods were basically  scaled-up Falcon 20 stuff. The machine first flew in 1992, commercial flights started in 1995. Orion II and III beneficiated of commercial success of Orion I, but also of a major propulsion breaktrough in early 90's... Orion II was a near-orbital (mach 22) airliner which flew between Tokyo and LA. The Orion III which followed in 1998 was a bigger variant which replaced the Shuttle for flights between Cap Canaveral and space stations...  

[Spey_Phantom]

i remember airfix released an orion spaceshutlle kit a few years ago.
i think there still available  B)  

[Archibald]

i remember airfix released an orion spaceshutlle kit a few years ago.
i think there still available  B)

Yes it is, I saw it every time I go to the shop    They mention it is 1/144 scale, which is rather fun in itself (who knows thue dimensions of this thing ?).

Number of projects on my my bench now increase dangerously...  

[StephenMiller]

Good stuff.  Anymore to add for the Orion backstory?  Pan Am also operates
the Earth orbit to moon Aries 1b lunar shuttle.  How about a backstory for that one?
I am sure the Orion III is also operated by the USAF and USAA and also even foreign operators such as Qantas and Lufthansa and British Airways.
I recall in the novel that the Russians had the Titov-V shuttle.  This would also be operated by Aeroflot.
Any backstories on the orbital nukes seen in the film?

[Archibald]

Good stuff.  Anymore to add for the Orion backstory?  Pan Am also operates
the Earth orbit to moon Aries 1b lunar shuttle.  How about a backstory for that one?
I am sure the Orion III is also operated by the USAF and USAA and also even foreign operators such as Qantas and Lufthansa and British Airways.
I recall in the novel that the Russians had the Titov-V shuttle.  This would also be operated by Aeroflot.
Any backstories on the orbital nukes seen in the film?

Stephen, I had written a story called "Skyliout" 3 years ago.

It started circa 1974.
It implied recycling intelligently ALL APOLLO STUFF LEFT
(I mean, two Saturn V, three Saturn I, three CSM, and Skylab 2).

I'd ended with the two Skylab, a Saliout, and an "international module" docked together to form a pre- ISS in the early 80's!

alas, I've lost it during a hard-disk change    

I'm a great fan of 2001, but I've red the book before seeing the movie. I like both, the book give more details about the whole SSTO/ Space-station/ lunar base stuff...  

[Archibald]

Good stuff.  Anymore to add for the Orion backstory?  Pan Am also operates
the Earth orbit to moon Aries 1b lunar shuttle.  How about a backstory for that one?
I am sure the Orion III is also operated by the USAF and USAA and also even foreign operators such as Qantas and Lufthansa and British Airways.
I recall in the novel that the Russians had the Titov-V shuttle.  This would also be operated by Aeroflot.
Any backstories on the orbital nukes seen in the film?

Well according to the novel it seems that Orion III use a kind of catapult, plus a TSTO layout. Not a bad idea in itself, having two stages + an help at take-off would make things much more easier. In fact what is described in the book is a flyback booster...

Clarke's Orion III would be (in our world) a combo of X-33, Starbooster, and Skyramp concepts!

And Clarke also mention that Orion III has a "V-tail" which don't appear in the movie (I would add this V-tail to the Airfix Orion III based on the movie model).

In the book it seems that the Clavius moon base is established circa 1994.

So alternate time line would be
- First lunar landing in 1969.
- End of first phase in 1975.

The Apollo method is considered as too limited and risky, so its better having a big "relay" in LEO. First step in that way is Skylab, which is given a high priority. Later three Skylabs are docked together to create a huge space station.

The Space shuttle itself is less flawed than in OTL, having smaller E.T, SSME lightened in flight (not a take-off!!) and a MUCH MORE EFFICIENT BOOSTER, no those bloody SRBs  
The big-dumb-booster is chosen instead in early 1972.

The shuttle is more efficient, even with delays, last Apollo CSM fill the gap until the early 80's.
In fact the Shuttle is used to ferry a new generation of Lunar modules (dubbed the Ares 1B) to the LEO station.

Thanks to that, Ares 1B is a 28 ton ship    allowing much longer missions on Lunar soil.

But reasearch on Shuttle successor start right from the 80's. After examining propulsion breaktrough, NASA conclude that these technologies are not mature enough, so exotic solutions are used to improved rockets.

Composites materials now allow internal fuel storage, but that's still not sufficient to create a SSTO (single stage to orbit). So a winged flyback booster is used, along a electromagnetic catapult.

These first and second generations of shuttles are first used by NASA. Then, after the concept proved successfull, USAF, CIA, USN and others military operators enter the space race.
Third generation of users are Airlines such as Panam  .

After the Orion III enter service, the old generation of Shuttle are left to
second-hand companies such as Hugo Drax spacelines, Drax also building the machine under Rockwell licence in its plants.  

the 1963 space treaty was banned by the Reagan administration at the climax of Cold War, in 1983. This was part of the "Star Wars" strategy, Shuttles were used to load nuclear warheads into orbit...  

[StephenMiller]

Here are additional thoughts on the orbital nukes:  The first one we see in that historic moment in cinema history after the ape-man throws that bone in the air
is one with the USAF insignia.  The second one has the German flag and Luftwaffe symbol.  The third one is French  Armee de l'Aire and the last one appears to be a laser cannon platform with either Chinese PLAAF or a stylized Soviet Red Star.
We can assume the RAF and even Israel have orbital nukes too.
The US and NATO nukes are deployed from military Orion II shuttles and from the Cape and Vandenberg AFB and the Russian and Chinese nukes are launched from Baikonur, Plesetsk, and Jiuquan.
Interesting thought-how would the Germans develop nukes in the 2001 mythos?
Would they dust off their old notes from WW2 and get US and NATO assistance in developing theirs in time to have an orbital one by 2001?

[philp]

I heard the Airfix kit wasn't very accurate (as far as that goes).
Used to have the old Aurora kit which had a better shape.
There is also a resin kit out (there were a couple at Wonderfest) that looks very nice.  Following image from Culttvman.

[Archibald]

Here are additional thoughts on the orbital nukes:  The first one we see in that historic moment in cinema history after the ape-man throws that bone in the air
is one with the USAF insignia.  The second one has the German flag and Luftwaffe symbol.  The third one is French  Armee de l'Aire and the last one appears to be a laser cannon platform with either Chinese PLAAF or a stylized Soviet Red Star.
We can assume the RAF and even Israel have orbital nukes too.
The US and NATO nukes are deployed from military Orion II shuttles and from the Cape and Vandenberg AFB and the Russian and Chinese nukes are launched from Baikonur, Plesetsk, and Jiuquan.
Interesting thought-how would the Germans develop nukes in the 2001 mythos?
Would they dust off their old notes from WW2 and get US and NATO assistance in developing theirs in time to have an orbital one by 2001?

I've never realised that there was orbital nukes in 2001... you never end discovering again  this movie    

Well, had the shuttle been successful enough, we can assume that US allies would have had their hands on some.

Don't forget that Clarke mention there's 38 (!!!) nuclear powers, plus the fact that the Chinese sell a kind of nuclear package to many others countries...

We can imagine a different Cold War, on one hand you have no "detente" between USSR and USA (seems that crisis similar to the Cuban thing repeat nearly every year, as described in H.Floyd feelings) and there's no EEC / EU block... in fact its a bit of "multipolar cold war", not only USA and USSR face each others.

We can imagine that in such tense world, even medium-powers want a huge nuclear arsenal. This explain why the nuclear club include 38 countries, not the 8 we know today... we can say that every "advanced" country has nuclear forces, in the same way as today every country has an air force, ground troops and a navy.

A rather dangerous world to say the least...

[dragon]

I've never realised that there was orbital nukes in 2001... you never end discovering again  this movie    

Well, had the shuttle been successful enough, we can assume that US allies would have had their hands on some.

Don't forget that Clarke mention there's 38 (!!!) nuclear powers, plus the fact that the Chinese sell a kind of nuclear package to many others countries...

We can imagine a different Cold War, on one hand you have no "detente" between USSR and USA (seems that crisis similar to the Cuban thing repeat nearly every year, as described in H.Floyd feelings) and there's no EEC / EU block... in fact its a bit of "multipolar cold war", not only USA and USSR face each others.

We can imagine that in such tense world, even medium-powers want a huge nuclear arsenal. This explain why the nuclear club include 38 countries, not the 8 we know today... we can say that every "advanced" country has nuclear forces, in the same way as today every country has an air force, ground troops and a navy.

A rather dangerous world to say the least...

Actually, Clarke goes further into this in 2010.  He also mentions that David Bowman was the son of an Astronaut who had died in one of the early shuttle accidents.  There is a nice bit of dialogue about this in 2010- the Russians do not own up to the orbiting nuke and Heywood Floyd puts the ownership sarcastically on the Vatican. B)  

[Archibald]

Aye, I've to read 2010 one day Seems that's the story keep on until year 3000 or so ?    

[StephenMiller]

I was intrigued to see a German Luftwaffe nuke in the film, which is seen after the USAF one.  How would Germany develop nuclear capability in the 2001 world after the end of the war in 1945?  Any thoughts?

[Archibald]

I was intrigued to see a German Luftwaffe nuke in the film, which is seen after the USAF one.  How would Germany develop nuclear capability in the 2001 world after the end of the war in 1945?  Any thoughts?

Got the answer to your question. France will help! De Gaulle and Adenauer officially started what we call "la reconciliation franco-allemande" circa 1962. Interestingly, that's more or less the moment when France detonated its first nuclear weapons. Maybe after the cuban crisis and Soviet threats on Berlin, Germany decided to have its own nuclear weapons ? Then it depend if these weapons are within MATO or not.
Things could have been very different had Franco's Spain developed its own nuclear weapons. Add to that Carrero Blanco not assasinated by ETA this day of 12/1973, you have a longer dictatorship in a nuclear Spain... european local Cold War ?

And you can use Ariane rockets to ferry nuclear weapons into LEO...  

[StephenMiller]

Good thinking!  We can assume that the Franco-German orbital nuke programme
was a joint effort and it also explains both the German Luftwaffe and French Armee de l'Air nukes we see in the film.
What about the Chinese PLAAF laser cannon platform we see just before cutting to the Orion shuttle in the film?

[Archibald]

Good thinking!  We can assume that the Franco-German orbital nuke programme
was a joint effort and it also explains both the German Luftwaffe and French Armee de l'Air nukes we see in the film.
What about the Chinese PLAAF laser cannon platform we see just before cutting to the Orion shuttle in the film?

In its book Clark explain than Chinese population is now circa 2 billion people, the country economy is near bankrupcy. So the chinese sell their nuclear weapons to others countries, because they have more efficient weapons such as radio-hypnotic satellites, virus or things like that. China probably managed to create a huge orbital laser with Soviet help (no Sino-USSR relation breakout in the early 60's), something like a reverse-engeniering IDS (the Reagan thing, I only know the french acronym)...

As USSR and China managed a breaktrough in space lasers, only ressources for the rest of the World consist in space-base nuclear weapons, a huge arsenal is now necessary to the free world, because the Sino-Soviet laser is able to target and destroy MIRV rather easily.
As a consequence, the USA have 40 000 nuclear warheads, France had 3000, Germany 2500, GB 4000, in brief NATO countries have nearly 60 000 nuclear warheads (others NATO countries also have smaller number of nuclear bombs). Over those 60 000, no less than 45 000 are space-based.
Moscow and Beijing are permantly targeted. Nato space nuclear warheads are stockpiled in 45 huge depots circling earth in LEO. These automatic depots (guess why they are unmanned ?   ) are regularly monitored by Shuttle crews.

USSR and China amount 35 000 nuclear warheads, but their laser give them the edge.