Civil War Ironclad

[Daryl J.]

Would it have been possible to cut down the hull of an Elco 80, armor it to a lesser degree than a C.W. Ironclad, and have it still float well enough to provide some highly protected, ''maneuverable'' firepower?        Schnellboot or Vosper type boats would be fine too.

Ye Olde Minde is still a little distorted from watching 'Sahara' the other evening and it got me wondering the above.


Daryl J.

[cthulhu77]

The draft would have to be increased substantially, otherwise it would be too topheavy, but sure, it would be workable.

[dragon]

Obviously it would not be as fast...The other question would be is the thought for this conversion to be a casemate (southern style) ironclad or a turreted (Union Style) ironclad.  Then again you could combine both, or just use the turrets with a "standard" hull (laird ram style).

[jcf]

The problem with increasing the draft would be that the boat would no longer be a planing craft, and the vessel's speed and maneuverability would thus be greatly diminished. Armour + speed in small craft is a difficult combination to achieve and the result is usually of doubtful utility, the casemate style ironclad would be a poor choice of prototype, unless... you were speaking of a modern vessel with composite laminate armour and then you'd end up with something looking like the current generation of small 'stealth' combatants.

Speaking of ironclads and 'stealth' have any of you ever compared the DD-21/DD(X)/DDG-1000 designs and the ram USS Dunderberg?












Cheers, Jon

[Maverick]

Whilst I'll be the first to admit barely no knowledge on all things squiddy, would such a boat be possible with composite or carbon-fibre armour as opposed to traditional metals?  Could this alleviate the weight & draught & inherent maneuverability problems or is there some other factor that would need consideration?  Either way, if it's a worker, I reckon it's a killer idea.  Love the DDG Jon, that thing looks like it should be in space!

Regards,

Mav

[Hobbes]

IIRC composite armour weighs about half as much as steel armour for the same protection. It does take up more volume, but that's not too much of a problem on a ship.

But how much protection do you want? You can probably install enough armour to protect against small-arms fire.

Protecting against heavier weapons would make the ship very heavy, and you end up with a ship that looks like this, and even the EFV is only specced to protect against 14.5 mm ammo.  

[Dork the kit slayer]

Try blocks of "reactive" armour. My thinking is you only ned armour around really sensitive areas......thin skin just lets AP and most high volocity round through.

Heavy armour would be a big worry on anything moving above say 10 knots...so the stability on a schnell type boat wouldnt let you pull any tight turns.
 

[cthulhu77]

like Chobham or the such?  Interesting...you could have skirts of it along the draft.

[Jeffry Fontaine]

IIRC composite armour weighs about half as much as steel armour for the same protection. It does take up more volume, but that's not too much of a problem on a ship.

But how much protection do you want? You can probably install enough armour to protect against small-arms fire.

Protecting against heavier weapons would make the ship very heavy, and you end up with a ship that looks like this, and even the EFV is only specced to protect against 14.5 mm ammo.

You are on a slippery slope when you start adding on armor to a ship hull.  There is a finite space available so you trade space for armor and reduce internal volume which means sacrificing space allocated to store fuel, weapons, living space (habitability), or machinery space.  Designing a ship hull is not much different from designing an aircraft, you have to find a happy medium where everything comes together and works or you have a failed program.  I would recommend reading this nice article from the Federation of American Scientists web page called "Boats for Beginners".  This may help explain a bit more about boat design.  

That EFV is a real cadillac, quite the example of "Pimp My Ride" for what should be an armored personnel carrier...  

[GTX]

Speaking of ironclads and 'stealth' have any of you ever compared the DD-21/DD(X)/DDG-1000 designs and the ram USS Dunderberg?

I guess I'm not the only one who thinks of the ironclad era when I look at the Zumwalt!

As to the use of carbon-fibre composites or similar, I think they definitely have use, though one would need to be careful of water entering the matrix if damage (and not just from battle) were to be sustained.

Regards,

Greg

[Joe C-P]

like Chobham or the such?  Interesting...you could have skirts of it along the draft.

Chobham is partly made from uranium and is extremely heavy.

For examples of this concept in action, check out the USN's brown water navy in the Vietnam War.

JoeP