Author Topic: Naval COD & AEW options  (Read 15169 times)

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Offline elmayerle

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Naval COD & AEW options
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2007, 11:51:20 pm »
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The Lear 25 can carry 8 passengers, say a 640 kg payload. That's not much. And that's for the civilian version. A naval version would be heavier (stronger structure) which would reduce the payload.
What about a lear-45?
The Lear 45 carries more passengers, but has a civilian (2-spar) wing structure as opposed to the 10-spar structure of the others.  Learjet took an "interesting" approach on the wings for the different models.  The basic structure is the same for all those I listed (at least inboard of where the tip tanks are on the 23/24/25) and the IML of the wing is fixed.  When they need thicker skins for heavier aircraft, all the thickness changes affect, slightly, the OML of the wing.  There may also be some internal beefups of some structural components, but I was doing powerplant and fuel system installations, not structure.  In any case, a navalized Lear 24 or 25 using skins and heavier structure from, say, the Model 55 or 60, would be quite, IMHO, doable.
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Offline upnorth

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« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2007, 12:47:01 am »
One of my favorite bizjet designs has always been the Lockheed Jetstar:


According to information I could find out about its dimensions, it could (theoretically) be navalized and put on carriers.

Those big wing tanks could have some of the fuel space given over to ECM or ELINT gear, possibly cameras or all kinds of other mission specific equipment.

Offline elmayerle

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« Reply #17 on: March 21, 2007, 01:19:28 am »
Given both its ancestry and it's general ruggedness, I'd be tempted to look at navalizing a Learjet.  What you might do is what was one of the original Model 31 proposals, essentially use a Model 25 airframe but fitted with the aft fuselage and engine fit of the Model 35/36.  *wicked smile* If you needed more power, the TFE731-2s of the Model 35/36 could be replaced by the TFE731-3s of the Model 55 with no external contour changes, the nacelle lines are the same (though there are internal structural and systems differences).  I'd have to check engine dimensions, but you might even be able to fit later, more powerful and less thirsty TFE731 variants.
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Offline Archibald

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« Reply #18 on: March 21, 2007, 01:46:34 am »
I would say TBM-700 / Pilatus PC-12 on board small carriers (like the CDG).

For lucky guys having Nimitz  ;)  I think all bizjets would fit on their deck, including big, intercontinental Gulfstreams :wub:  (but you'll need folding wings :wub: )

Anyone is in for a group build ? Build a bizjet /small airliner in Navy (country of your choice) colors, with naval features (arrestor hook, CATOBAR, bigger undercarriage, folding wings)

Even if the navy has no true carrier (spain, GB, australia). Otherwise choice would be too limited (only france GB and USN)

Hmmm.. blue angel Falcon 20... naval Carreidas (already have swing wings just like the Tomcat, so why not ?)

I try to imagine a Falcon 20 on Aeronavale colors with wings folded ala Hawkeye  :wub:  

Now I know there's some 1/72 scale bizjets


 
King Arthur: Can we come up and have a look?
French Soldier: Of course not. You're English types.
King Arthur: What are you then?
French Soldier: I'm French. Why do you think I have this outrageous accent, you silly king?

Well regardless I would rather take my chance out there on the ocean, that to stay here and die on this poo-hole island spending the rest of my life talking to a gosh darn VOLLEYBALL.

Offline Hobbes

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« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2007, 01:49:01 am »
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I think it was Fokker proposed a Fokker 90 as a COD/tanker at one point.

That was the F-28, yes. I've got a drawing here somewhere.  

Offline upnorth

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« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2007, 01:52:09 am »
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Even if the navy has no true carrier (spain, GB, australia). Otherwise choice would be too limited (only france GB and USN)
 
I don't know about that.

Unless you think trying to put a Yak-40 "Codling" on a Kuznetzov might be stretching things just  a  bit. :rolleyes:
« Last Edit: March 21, 2007, 01:57:16 am by upnorth »

B777LR

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« Reply #21 on: March 21, 2007, 09:17:33 am »
Pilatus PC-6 for puting ashore special forces? Those things take off on just 10 meters in powerful head wind (so cool!)

Offline AeroplaneDriver

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« Reply #22 on: March 21, 2007, 09:29:59 am »
While the thought of a navalized Lear/Falcon/etc is really cool I dont think it would be practical.  The LR24/25/31/35 is a pretty short legged (as in range) machine as it is.  By the time you add the weight (a lot of weight) for stronger structure, landing gear, arrestor gear and all the other little odds and ends that go into making an aircraft carrier capable you're going to end up with a pretty heavy bird, with little left for fuel/payload.  

It ceratainly woldnt be impossible, but probably impractical.  IIRC at one point De Havilland or Hawker proposed a COD version of the DH/HS125 (as recently modeled by someone on here I think).

The TBM is a nice idea, but again there isnt much room for added weight to start with.  The PC12 is pretty rugged to start with and has a huge useful load, so that one may not be such a challenge.
So I got that going for me...which is nice....

B777LR

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« Reply #23 on: March 21, 2007, 09:44:12 am »
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It ceratainly woldnt be impossible, but probably impractical.  IIRC at one point De Havilland or Hawker proposed a COD version of the DH/HS125 (as recently modeled by someone on here I think).
Yup, that was merlin jones who did one (was a masterpiece)

Ocean

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« Reply #24 on: March 21, 2007, 09:51:08 am »
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It ceratainly woldnt be impossible, but probably impractical.  IIRC at one point De Havilland or Hawker proposed a COD version of the DH/HS125 (as recently modeled by someone on here I think).
Yup, that was merlin jones who did one (was a masterpiece)
Bruce did the COIN Jetstream.

Think you might find it was Nigel Bunker and is in the Milton Keynes 2007 photo's.

The HS Andover and the Fokker F-28 were both offered as USN COD aircraft for use on the supercarriers.

The HS-125 weas porposed for both COD & AEW for the UK Carriers, the Jetstream was also propossed as a COD aircraft. The actual design intended for the CVA-01 was the rather ugly Blackburn P139 that had the GEV nose and Tail radars on a rather short fat round fuselage.

 B)  

Offline elmayerle

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« Reply #25 on: March 21, 2007, 09:57:34 am »
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While the thought of a navalized Lear/Falcon/etc is really cool I dont think it would be practical.  The LR24/25/31/35 is a pretty short legged (as in range) machine as it is.  By the time you add the weight (a lot of weight) for stronger structure, landing gear, arrestor gear and all the other little odds and ends that go into making an aircraft carrier capable you're going to end up with a pretty heavy bird, with little left for fuel/payload.  
 
Well, I'd probably go with a Lear 24 or 25 fuselage (for capacity, the 25) with the tail section from a lear 35/36 and the Lear 55 engine nacelles.  I'd probably also go with a few mod center packages that improve the performance/range of the Lear.  Beefing up the wing isn't that difficult, in several cases all that's needed is to go back to the origina machined parts from the P-16 instead of the bent-up sheet metal parts the Lear uses.  The fuselage is already fairly sturdy and likely wouldn't take too much to upgrade it.  Since it has a "keel" beam already, fitting an arresting hook isn't that complicated.
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Offline AeroplaneDriver

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« Reply #26 on: March 21, 2007, 10:00:31 am »
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.

The HS-125 weas porposed for both COD & AEW for the UK Carriers, the Jetstream was also propossed as a COD aircraft. The actual design intended for the CVA-01 was the rather ugly Blackburn P139 that had the GEV nose and Tail radars on a rather short fat round fuselage.

 B)
Ocean,

Do you have a source for the Jetstream proposal?  

Every Jetstream pilot in the world seems to be told that the Jetstream was a proposed COD aircraft, but no one seems to be able to back it up.  I wrote an article for Airliners magazine on the Jetstream a few years ago and when I was researching I couldnt find anything on a COD Jetstream, even by contacting BAES.
So I got that going for me...which is nice....

Offline Maverick

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« Reply #27 on: March 21, 2007, 01:37:13 pm »
The Starship & Avanti have to be two of the most gorgeous planes ever!!

B777LR

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« Reply #28 on: March 22, 2007, 07:33:43 am »
http://www.zap16.com/images/PC-6%20V-631.jpg

Think youve mistaken it for a PC-7  ;)

 :tornado:  

Offline Jennings

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« Reply #29 on: March 22, 2007, 07:52:39 pm »
Douglas proposed a COD version of the DC-9 (yes, the DC-9!).  There's a painting of one in the "Great Airliners" book on the DC-9.

Big tall nose gear strut and a tail hook!

J
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