Breguet Br.482

[Archibald]

Here's a French prototype bomber of 1940, the Breguet Br.482. In fact, it was ready in june 1940, but was only achived in 1947. At the time, the french air force was studying jet-powered bombers such as the SO-4000 (which failed in 1951). Later the Vautour and the Mirage IV took the role...
I think about a line of French bomber starting with the Halifax of the "Guyenne" squadron in 1945, replaced by Breguet 482 in 1948, SO-4000 in 1953, Vautour in 1956 and Mirage IV in 1964...  

[Archibald]

or maybe a turboprop powered Breguet, with the TB-1000 of the late 40's...  

[GTX]

Archibald,

Very interesting - at first glance, the top/front views could almost be mistaken for a Lancaster or Hallifax.

How about a Maritime Patrol version for the late 1940's/early 1950s?

Regards,

Greg

[Brian da Basher]

I like it a lot Archie! The side view reminds me of a Caproni Ca 314 beefed up with two extra engines! It's fun to imagine how this aircraft might've changed things had it come on line a year earlier. A French bombing raid on Berlin? You can call me Meyer!

Brian da Basher

[dogsbody]

Or a Vichy raid on Gibraltar.

[Archibald]

Or a Vichy raid on Gibraltar.

I agree with you, the Vicky regime was crap. But no remark like this on this forum please...
Concerning the first raid on Berlin, it was in june 1940 by a 4-engines Farman 222 (name Jules Verne). This plane dropped the first bombs on the german capital (many followed!!!). This was quite ridiculous, only 4 bombs were dropped, on the suburbs. but well, it was the first WWII raid on Berlin!!
There was plenty bomber design at the time, particulalry in bloch (future Dassault)
- MB-175 light bomber
- MB-134 medium-bomber
- MB-140 4-engines medium bomber
- MB-162 heavy bomber (Languedoc derivative)

Just look here...
http://forums-fr.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/.../3891014553/p/1

[NARSES2]

Or a Vichy raid on Gibraltar.

Unfortunately Archie it actually happened in retaliation for Oran & Mers el Kebir.  A very sad period of history but we must never deny it  

Chris

[Archibald]

Don't want to deny that!! The way it was said looked like a provocation...but never mind.
concerning this raid, a short story...
The crew of a DB-7 must bomb Gibraltar from Tunisia, which is out of the range of the Douglas. solution found by the chief of the squadron : "the DB-7 can perfectly fly on one engine so you light the second engine for the return"    :dum:  

[dogsbody]

I meant no provocation. I meant it as NARSES2 suggested

[Archibald]

eeeeeerh..ok!
Well the Vichy regime is a pain in the donkey for the French. These guys were particularly disgusting... For example, when the Germans asked all the Jews living in Paris (in July 1942) they precised that they were not interested by the children. Its hard to believe, but the french police gave the jews to the germans, INCLUDING the childs...  f.cking bastards... hate this period!!!
Lets go back to the Breguet, I'm getting sick just thinking about this period...

The plane was much smaller and lighter than a Lancaster, and had amuch better top speed, around 550km/h. this mean less vulnerability to the 109s, like the Mosquitos...  

[elmayerle]

Other than the fact that it appears totally lacking in defensive aramament, the Br.482 looks to be quite an attractive aircraft.  I'd love to see what the proposed armament fit was as it looks idea for a good tail gun position similar to the twin-vertical gun position evaluated during the design evolution of the B-17E.

Do you have drawings of those Bloch aircraft you mention?  I'd definitely be interested in seeing them.

[Archibald]

The story of the Bloch bombers in the 30's is very complicated, with a pile of prototypes. At the beginning were three families
- Bloch 131 a slow, vulnerable recon plane of 1934
- Bloch 160, high speed four-engine commercial plane
- Bloch 170, high speed recon/ bomber

From these 3 families were derived

- Bloch 134 : twin-engine, high speed bomber (similar to the 174 at first glance, but bigger
- Bloch 135 : four-engines, conventional bomber (rejected in favor of the LeO-451 nad Amiot 351)

- Bloch 162 heavy bomber, 485 km/h (a kind of french B-17)

- Bloch 175 high speed light bomber
- Bloch 140 high-speed four-engine bomber

In the end, the most promising bombers were
- Bloch 175 (light)
- Bloch 134 (medium)
- Bloch 140 (heavy)
The bloch 140 has become a legend : with 4*1100hp radail engines, its top speed was to be superior to 600km/h, with 4 tons of bombs at 3000km. First prototype was destroyed in June 1940, with all the documents, photos and the like. Apparently few things subsisted...(including 3-views)

I join the 3-view of the MB-175

and MB-134

[Archibald]

I was thinking : at the end of WWII, the gnome Rhone 14R (1580hp) was to be the main piston-engine. Many aircrafts were draw around it.
But it ended in failure, leaving some planes in the dust. At the same time,  first french turboprop the TB-1000 was developped. It had 1600 hp, too... so i thought : why not replacing the 14R by the TB-1000?
Here's some projects
The SO-30R Bretagne was a small airliner for 25 passengers... if you replace its 14R by TB-1000, you have something similar to an ATR in 1950!
Bloch 174 : the famous fast bomber of 1940 was used for maritime patrol after the war (Bloch 175). Once again, TB-1000 would be great on this plane...
And the subject of this topic, the Breguet 482...
Just imagine that a TB-1000 Breguet 482 replaced the Halifax of the GB 1/91 Guyenne, waiting for the Vautour in 1955...
There was also the Latécoère 631, an enormous flying boat powered by R-2600. Once again, TB-1000 turboprops would have change many things (I dream of a Late 631 heavy cargo for the AdA and Aeronavale)