I must be a glutton for punishment. So while I'm still in the middle of designing the ER.103C (and I'm most of the way through the Shorts P.17D also), I thought I'd "just" take a look at what would be involved in getting Fusion set up for knocking these 3 out. @Thorvic ruthlessly suggested I was planning to do a new P.1121 after I bought an S&M kit recently. I actually wasn't tbh, however, like the Evil Kit Finder Git that he is, he planted the seed and it just wouldn't go away. 

So, I've not actually done much as yet, only adding the accurately scaled 3-views into Fusion to get an idea of how much carryover I can keep between them. The answer? Its complicated. 

Before I go any further, let me add that my reference material is a mix of everything shared on SecretProjects forum, British Secret Projects 1, Cold War Interceptor, and the fantastic Project Tech Profile - Camm's Last Fighters by @overscan 

Now, as I was saying, its complicated. Lets start with the P.1103 vs P.1116.



One led directly to the other, so in side profile, pretty damn close! I aligned them at the intake, and nibbled the height by about 1% to align the dorsal profile. Straight-away we can see that the nose, cockpit and stabilizer will be different, but otherwise a lot of the Sketches I'll need to do can be shared when it comes to creating the 3d Bodies. Lets, look at them in Plan....



Since the plan drawings don't contrast quite so well I've highlighted the more difficult tasks. Wings and Area-Ruling. I can get away with sharing the same lines for the front half of the fuselage (allowing for the radome), but will need to do two different rear sections. However, this does lend itself to accommodating the wing differences, namely the trailing edge where it meets the body. Handily, the same elevators can be shared too.

Finally, lets look at them head-on....



Now, ignoring the tyre differences the most obvious thing is the anhedral on the P.1116 wings, but otherwise all the differences we already know about. I think its fair to say we will obviously be sharing the inlet, exhaust & nozzle, elevators, undercarriage, wheels, bays, doors and so forth. Cockpit for the pilot may have a couple of differences due to the Interceptor vs Strike Fighter tasking, but I don't know if I will bother going to those lengths. Front fuselages will be basically the same allowing for cockpit location (plus cannons and radome etc). Completely different will be the canopies, rear fuselage, wings, stabilizer and ordnance (obviously). There is some detail lacking from the P.1116 drawings, so I'll be making a lot of assumptions, such as low airbrake location, panel lines and vents etc etc. Since there is so little I'm kind of free to take what I want from the P.1103 and P.1121.

The main thing is that a lot of the difficult stuff, i.e. the profile sketches and section views can be shared up to a point. This will make it a low less repetitive when creating the 3d Bodies.

I'll do a comparison of the P.1121 vs P.1116 shortly, but right now the smell of roast chicken is wafting around the house so it must be dinner time!

  

It's such a happy looking plane from the front.
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And after all that writing I've just dug around on SecretProjects forum and found Barrie's P.1116 CAD drawing. Mint.

Quote from: scooter on May 25, 2025, 11:32:44 AMIt's such a happy looking plane from the front.
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Indeed 

You might be able to use your Gyron engine exhaust with these as well as your FD2.

For some reason when I first saw that it reminded me of the early F-100B/F-107 mockups that still had the intake under the fuselage instead of on top.

Now then, pay attention at the back! Where were we? Ah yes, P.1116 vs P.1121 differences. Lets jump right in. Lots is different, in a nutshell.


Nose is longer, canopy slightly higher, rear fuselage is deeper and longer, stabilizer is different with a bullet fairing at the base, elevators are low mounted on the fuselage, Inlet has a less tapered angle/sweep, air brakes are high up on the fuselage too. Then there's the dorsal air intake. However, the nose from the tip of the radome to the trailing edge of the canopy is almost identical, so there's just a short plug to be added into the P.1121. Landing gear and their bays & doors can likewise be shared. The shape of the fuselage from around the trailing edge of the inlet to the base of the fin is also basically identical for drawing purposes.


Handily in plan view the fuselage profile is almost identical, meaning drawings can be sectioned, copied and stretched. Obviously the wings are significantly different; and the elevators, while probably almost the same size, will be different enough in a couple of places that they'll need to be fresh designs.


From the front the difference in wingspan & shape, and air brake & elevator location is most apparent. Otherwise its very. very close. Undercarriage, again, can be shared, plus the air brakes themselves.

So in summary, not the end of the world. Still, not that easy either. When I get started I think this time I'll attack all the shared components first and then work around those. But for now I have the small FD3 to crack on with.

I think I may need to have words with my bank manager 

Gondor

Quote from: Gondor on May 29, 2025, 01:47:26 PMI think I may need to have words with my bank manager 

Gondor

You're not the only one    This and the FD3 look utterly fabulous!

Quote from: Accidental Loggie on May 30, 2025, 12:18:09 PM

Quote from: Gondor on May 29, 2025, 01:47:26 PMI think I may need to have words with my bank manager 

Gondor

You're not the only one    This and the FD3 look utterly fabulous!

Yup, Stuart is producing some fabulous stuff. So far, I have his A.W.169, yet to start, I'm partway through one of his P.8's, and I have recently ordered another one. Superb stuff, I will be dancing around in anticipation for these.

Gondor

Did you scan the the three views?

I can give you Barrie's original vector drawings, might be better?

There's also the side-byside naval P.1121, two seat P.1121, P.1123...

Quote from: overscan on June 01, 2025, 08:36:50 PMDid you scan the the three views?

I can give you Barrie's original vector drawings, might be better?

There's also the side-byside naval P.1121, two seat P.1121, P.1123...

I remembered the area on the SecretProjects forum where you stuck all the additional reference material. I have what I need for now (or at least for when I finish what I'm currently doing and get started in earnest). As far as the other variants..... all in good time

I can see someone earning a nice living from producing fake invoices for various spouces and "other halves" perusals 

Quote from: NARSES2 on June 02, 2025, 08:41:43 AMI can see someone earning a nice living from producing fake invoices for various spouces and "other halves" perusals 

That's something you or I need not worry about, nor a few others from this forum.