Author Topic: DynaSoar spaceplane  (Read 12282 times)

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Offline Archibald

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DynaSoar spaceplane
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2006, 01:00:35 am »
Here's the Titan II with dynasoar in CIA "colors"  
King Arthur: Can we come up and have a look?
French Soldier: Of course not. You're English types.
King Arthur: What are you then?
French Soldier: I'm French. Why do you think I have this outrageous accent, you silly king?

Well regardless I would rather take my chance out there on the ocean, that to stay here and die on this poo-hole island spending the rest of my life talking to a gosh darn VOLLEYBALL.

Offline Archibald

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« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2006, 01:16:24 am »
Alan Glenn was a USAF pilot, flying RF-84F and RF-4C in europe. He went to the CIA in 1967, when the service discretely recruted pilots for the dynasoar.
Its testimony...
"on 25th may 1967, I join the CIA as dynasoar pilot. I was transfered from Langley to Edwards AFB, were I flew  F5D skylancers. The aim was to learn how landing a dynasoar in emergency. we climbed at 600fts over Rogers Dry lake, cut the engine and landed. This was not easy because of the delta wing bad low-speed caracteristics. Then , the CIA send us in Groom lake in a Sabreliner. Here was the flight simulator for Dynasoar. when i discovered the fly-by-wire system I was astonished. Control was much easier than in a Phantom and I remember thinking "this system would be great in airliners"... :P
after 6 months of intensive training in Groom lake I was ready for my first USSR overflight, a big suborbital jump over the planet. My landing site was in White Sands, New Mexico.
On the night of November 22th 1967, I was transfered to Vandenberg AFB on a Jetstar from the CIA. Before the Lockheed landed I saw the Titan II rocket on the SLC-6. The rocket shined on spots lights. My dynasoar was fitted on top of it. It was totally dark, not only a single american roundel on it. I was longly briefed, about my targets. I must overfly the baikonour launch site to monitor the Zond and N-1L3 program. Other target below my flight past was the nuclear test center. My flight was coordinate with a nuclear test of 5 mt.
After that, an elevator send me to the cockpit of my spaceplane. The hatch was closed by two men and I wait the launch.
first stage was lighted, and I left the planet quickly...
King Arthur: Can we come up and have a look?
French Soldier: Of course not. You're English types.
King Arthur: What are you then?
French Soldier: I'm French. Why do you think I have this outrageous accent, you silly king?

Well regardless I would rather take my chance out there on the ocean, that to stay here and die on this poo-hole island spending the rest of my life talking to a gosh darn VOLLEYBALL.

Offline Archibald

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« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2006, 01:35:32 am »
I rapidly left over the atmospher below me. As my rocket climbed, the Sky was more and more dark. After 139seconds, at 80km and 9000km/h the rocket get ride off its first stage. Turning my head, I saw it tumbling in the atmosphere. I was now near space, and I could saw the earth, particularly the California coast and pacific ocean. The second stage light, sending me higher and higher. Suddenly the sun rose on the atmosphere- it was an incredible sight I will never forget- My flight was now horizontal and I overflew the pacific ocean at 16000km/h and 150km height. the second stage left me just before japan, sending me over USSR at 20000km/h and 180km height. I concentrate in my mission. I could modified my trajectory but carefully, because each change meant a loss in speed. after two minuts I entered USSR airspace, heading for the Kazakstan space and nucelar test sites. I heard a biiiiiiiiiip meaning that the soviets followed me with their radars. That's all they could made, as with U-2 in 1956. Just before overflying Baikonour, I light the camera in the bay behind my back. The entire launch site was mapped in some seconds and then I modified my trajectory. As exepcted my speed fall, but I was still flying at some 15000km/h and 165km. I arrived in the nuclear test site seconds later, just to see the enormous mushroom cloud below me. Even from 160km height, it was very impressive.
 Then I followed my path, leaving USSR above turkey. I overflyed europe at 10 000km/h, following the spanish coast to Gibraltar. then I cross the atlantic; labeit decreasing rapidly my speed was sufficient to send me to New Mexico.
I re entered the atmospher over the Acores, heading at full speed to the florida coast. I landed smothly in white sands, with F-104 chases planes watching carefully my spaceship before that. My flight had only laste one hour, but it was the longer I have ever lived..."
 
King Arthur: Can we come up and have a look?
French Soldier: Of course not. You're English types.
King Arthur: What are you then?
French Soldier: I'm French. Why do you think I have this outrageous accent, you silly king?

Well regardless I would rather take my chance out there on the ocean, that to stay here and die on this poo-hole island spending the rest of my life talking to a gosh darn VOLLEYBALL.

Offline Archibald

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DynaSoar spaceplane
« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2006, 01:04:17 am »
I will never forget my first sight of the Earth. I was at 80km height, and turning my head I looked out the windows cockpit... it was incredible and so beautiful!!!  
King Arthur: Can we come up and have a look?
French Soldier: Of course not. You're English types.
King Arthur: What are you then?
French Soldier: I'm French. Why do you think I have this outrageous accent, you silly king?

Well regardless I would rather take my chance out there on the ocean, that to stay here and die on this poo-hole island spending the rest of my life talking to a gosh darn VOLLEYBALL.

Offline Archibald

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« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2006, 06:22:09 am »
In fact two versions of the Dynasoar were adopted by the CIA and USAF. The spaceship was the same, but the laucher was different.
- for spy missions, suborbital flight was better than orbital, because the trajectory can be modified much easily. (Of course, if the target was missed, there would be no second chance).
In this case, The titan II rocket would be used (name Titan IIM). for orbital flight, only the Titan IIIM with SRB could be used.
At the end, the USAF and CIA created three squadrons of spaceplanes (SPS)
- The 4447th SPS was the CIA unit. Based in Vandenberg AFB on the SLC-6 launch complex, it used Titan IIM for suborbital flights over USSR.
- the 4415th SPS was also based in Vandenberg. It was one of the two space unti of the USAF, using Titan IIIM rockets for orbital recon, inspection and satellites repairs.
- the 4417th SPS was based in underground Titan II silos in Davis Monthan. The aim of this squadron was the same as the 4447th of the CIA : suborbital overflies of the USSR
A fourth squadron was in charge of the logistics of the three : the 4485th Transport Squadron had 8 C-141D starlifters.Based in Groom lake (albeit temporarily dispatched in Edwards or  White Sands).  They were modified to carry  rockets stages, ferrying DynaSoar and the like. Three C-39 Sabreliners were used to carry the pilots from one base to another. All these planes were blacks and whithout markings.
All the logistics from Dynasoar was finally moved from Edwards to Groom Lake in 1968, including the F5D skylancers used for land training.
Dynasoars from the USAF and CIA regularly overflew the USSR in conjonction with SR-71 / A12 penetrations and border flights from TR-1.  The aim was to destabilize the Soviets...
The MOL space station for the USAF was scrapped in 1966 as too expensive. The Apollo program pumped all funds at the time, so there was no money for this project.
 
King Arthur: Can we come up and have a look?
French Soldier: Of course not. You're English types.
King Arthur: What are you then?
French Soldier: I'm French. Why do you think I have this outrageous accent, you silly king?

Well regardless I would rather take my chance out there on the ocean, that to stay here and die on this poo-hole island spending the rest of my life talking to a gosh darn VOLLEYBALL.

Offline Archibald

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« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2006, 05:25:07 am »
After the triumph of apollo in 1969, NASA turn its mind on fully reusable spaceplanes. From july 1969 to july 1972, every configuration was carefully watched. At the time, only rocket motors were sufficiently evolved to launch a heavy payload in space, but they suffred from fuel weight penalty. NASA finnally understood that a fully reusable shuttle would be a kind of monster in the actual state of the technology. NASA renounced to it, and in spring 1972  studied various low cost shuttle alternatives with expendable parts -including one with an external tank full of Hydrogen, and two SRB along it-. this last configuration was finnaly rejected as too dangerous. further studies of the concept show that
- SRB were difficult to recover at sea
- the enormous fuel tank would be very dangerous if a leak occured. More, due to low temperature of the Hydrogen, parts of isolant would fall on take off and could break thermal protection tiles, leaving to catastrophic failures during reentry
- SRB were, too very dangerous.
- as the shuttle was heavy, it was on the side so no escape was available for the astronauts in case of failure!
As one of the NASA officials said later "this configuration was like seating astronauts on a big gas bottle with  high explosives strapped around it - a real flying bomb!"
Fortunately, the project was quickly dropped. To save money, NASA was forced to chose  DynaSoar in 26th July 1972. Heavy payloads would be launch by expendable rockets, waiting the technology to be more effective.
NASA reluctantly agree. so the service had 10 mini shuttles. As the type  was in service with USAF and CIA, first flight occured in 1975.
Modifications asked by NASA were as follow
- first, wheels instead of skids
- a bigger bay for the satellites
- Inflated bags for waters landings
- ejectors seats for emergency
- solid rocket motor for escape of a failed rocket during ascent
- a bay which culd be open in orbit to launch small satellites with a mechanical arm
- a tunnel,sas, and docking module on top of the cockpit (for space stations visits).
with such modifications, the NASA model was heavier, and a new rocket was needed - Titan VI.
for the abandonned shuttle, thiockol had studied big SRBs, so they were fitted to a Titan III, boosting in LEO payload to 30 tons.
 
which such changes, the spaceship was now Dynasoar II.




 
King Arthur: Can we come up and have a look?
French Soldier: Of course not. You're English types.
King Arthur: What are you then?
French Soldier: I'm French. Why do you think I have this outrageous accent, you silly king?

Well regardless I would rather take my chance out there on the ocean, that to stay here and die on this poo-hole island spending the rest of my life talking to a gosh darn VOLLEYBALL.

Offline Madoc

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« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2006, 12:19:48 pm »
Archibald,

Interesting stuff here!

Throughout the 60's NASA was hard at work developing a fully resusable launch system.

Among other things proposed was a shuttlecraft launched atop a Saturn 5 main stage that was outfitted with wings and landing gear.  The idea was for this huge beast to lift off vertically and power the shuttle up through the most expensive portion of its ascent.  Then separate when its tanks ran dry, turn around, and glide back to the Cape for a landing.

There would've been no parts thrown away and it could've been done with 1960's technology.  At the time, the NASA folk saw the expense of building this system and testing it out and found they didn't have enough money to do that _and_ to do the Moon landing.

Oh well...

Madoc
Wherever you go, there you are!

Offline Archibald

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« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2006, 11:42:29 pm »
For some years I studied carefully the history of the space shuttle, particularly the beginning. I found a fascinating website (try in google INTRODUCTION TO FUTURE LAUNCH VEHICLES PLANS or Markus Lindroos). this website deals with the concepts which led to the actual shuttle.
The program started right from July 1969, to july 1972. During these three years, NASA studied all configurations possibles. The Fully reusable shuttle (only two stages , one enormous booster+one big orbiter with internal tank) lasted until June 1971; then, for one year, cheaper alternatives were studied, following two ways
- the Shuttle tank was move out of the orbiter; this reduced weight and size of the orbiter from 60m and 180tons to the actual 80tons and 37m.
- the booster was the main problem.
At the beginnig, it was effectively what you describe; after that, to eliminate the pilot and the rest, they studied retrorocket and parachutes; then they cut the booster in two elements.
After they choose two separate boosters, the problem was now : what fuel for them? Liquid and solid rocket motors were watched... and the SRB were chose.
As you know, this decision led to the Challenger disaster  14 years later...
I made a model of the original shuttle in 1/144 scale : even at this scale, this is an enormous beast! The actual shuttle is really a dwarf  compairing to that... I will post photos if you want...  
In fact the only way of making a fully reusable shuttle in 1970 was : two stage, both with rocket engines. the problem was the first stage was gigantic, and this gigantic plane (= A-380 length) was to come back to the launch site flying like a plane... with a pilot of course!  
King Arthur: Can we come up and have a look?
French Soldier: Of course not. You're English types.
King Arthur: What are you then?
French Soldier: I'm French. Why do you think I have this outrageous accent, you silly king?

Well regardless I would rather take my chance out there on the ocean, that to stay here and die on this poo-hole island spending the rest of my life talking to a gosh darn VOLLEYBALL.

Offline Archibald

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« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2006, 11:45:33 pm »
I found the link for the website http://www.abo.fi/~mlindroo/SpaceLVs/Slides/sld001.htm
It's not easy to read that, but all the concepts for the space shuttle are here
3.The Space Shuttle (1968-72)
King Arthur: Can we come up and have a look?
French Soldier: Of course not. You're English types.
King Arthur: What are you then?
French Soldier: I'm French. Why do you think I have this outrageous accent, you silly king?

Well regardless I would rather take my chance out there on the ocean, that to stay here and die on this poo-hole island spending the rest of my life talking to a gosh darn VOLLEYBALL.

Offline elmayerle

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« Reply #24 on: April 13, 2006, 11:51:28 pm »
If you've not seen it, I can recommend this site and the animations it has:

Deep Cold
"Reality is the leading cause of stress amongst those in touch with it."
--Jane Wagner and Lily Tomlin

Offline Archibald

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« Reply #25 on: April 14, 2006, 06:55:25 am »
Thanks you very much elmayerle! In one word :FANTASTIC
King Arthur: Can we come up and have a look?
French Soldier: Of course not. You're English types.
King Arthur: What are you then?
French Soldier: I'm French. Why do you think I have this outrageous accent, you silly king?

Well regardless I would rather take my chance out there on the ocean, that to stay here and die on this poo-hole island spending the rest of my life talking to a gosh darn VOLLEYBALL.

Offline Archibald

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« Reply #26 on: April 17, 2006, 08:57:35 am »
I like the idea of NASA buying dynasoar in 1973, because the enormous budget wasted (well, not totally, but the cost of the shuttle was so enormous that some sacrifices had to be made) in the space shuttle permit
- to launch three more Apollo capsules (CSM-102, CSM-105 and CSM-119 with Saturn 209, 211 and 212 if a remember well)  after Apollo-Soyouz in july 1975
- this mean continuous american space flights between 1975 and 1981
- to launch the last two Saturn V (514 and 515) one with Skylab 2, the other with a big  international module (after the Helsinki conference in 1975)  
King Arthur: Can we come up and have a look?
French Soldier: Of course not. You're English types.
King Arthur: What are you then?
French Soldier: I'm French. Why do you think I have this outrageous accent, you silly king?

Well regardless I would rather take my chance out there on the ocean, that to stay here and die on this poo-hole island spending the rest of my life talking to a gosh darn VOLLEYBALL.

Offline Archibald

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DynaSoar spaceplane
« Reply #27 on: April 18, 2006, 06:06:08 am »
NASA received 10 DynaSoar launched by an upgraded Titan III with two big SRB, the Titan V, with two enormous SRB on the flancs...
 
King Arthur: Can we come up and have a look?
French Soldier: Of course not. You're English types.
King Arthur: What are you then?
French Soldier: I'm French. Why do you think I have this outrageous accent, you silly king?

Well regardless I would rather take my chance out there on the ocean, that to stay here and die on this poo-hole island spending the rest of my life talking to a gosh darn VOLLEYBALL.

Offline Archibald

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DynaSoar spaceplane
« Reply #28 on: April 19, 2006, 02:33:48 am »
In 2005, NASA replace the titan V by a fully reusable launcher. To obtain that, they use the Kistler K1 rocket (reusable using Airbags and parachutes) and add two Starboosters reusable flyback boosters. The Kistler engines are replaced by reusable engines; the competition opposed the new SDME (Space Dynasoar Main Engine) and the RD-701 from the MAKS shuttle (competitor of the DynaSoar since the late 80's). The RD-701 are chosen because of their tripropellant technology (Ie they used a mix of Hydrogen (lot of energy, but nighmare to handle) and Kerosene (easy to handle, but low energy) along with Oxygen oxidiser). The mix of the two fuels permit to save weight, as demonstrated by robert Salked in the 70's.  
The new launcher is named the StarKistler. Combination of Kistler, Starbooster, MAKS engines and Dynasoar space plane permit to have for the first time a fully reusable launch vehicle (albeit multistages)  
King Arthur: Can we come up and have a look?
French Soldier: Of course not. You're English types.
King Arthur: What are you then?
French Soldier: I'm French. Why do you think I have this outrageous accent, you silly king?

Well regardless I would rather take my chance out there on the ocean, that to stay here and die on this poo-hole island spending the rest of my life talking to a gosh darn VOLLEYBALL.

Offline Archibald

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« Reply #29 on: April 19, 2006, 02:38:22 am »
Here's the 4 elements the NASA combined to have its fully reusable launcher...  
King Arthur: Can we come up and have a look?
French Soldier: Of course not. You're English types.
King Arthur: What are you then?
French Soldier: I'm French. Why do you think I have this outrageous accent, you silly king?

Well regardless I would rather take my chance out there on the ocean, that to stay here and die on this poo-hole island spending the rest of my life talking to a gosh darn VOLLEYBALL.