Author Topic: Whittle's idea was a bust!  (Read 2298 times)

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Offline AeroplaneDriver

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Whittle's idea was a bust!
« on: September 09, 2005, 02:14:33 pm »
I have a lovely little Academy typhoon that I put together a few years ago, but never painted.  While thinking of whif potential it occured to me to think up a world where Sir Frank Whittle's jet engine was a failure, as were the experiments of his contemporaries in Germany, USA, etc.  In short, the jet engine concept failed.

While rockets, avionics, weaponry etc progressed roughly the way we know it, the WW2 generation fo aircraft ended up being the ultimate designs.  With modern electronics making piston engines more efficent and powerful the world's air arms slogged on with updated versions of the old airframes.

My Typhoon will eventually wear the colors of an RAF machine during the 1991 Gulf War, carrying a LGB on centerline, designator pod under a wind and an AIM9L under the other wing (tentative loadout).

Anyhoo, this led me to the concept of a "Jets never were" group build.  Modern weapons, modern markings, WW2 aircraft!

Think o fthe possibilites...B-25 in Euro I, Desert Pink Mozzie, Falklands Corsair, Modern USN/USMC Avanger carrying Harpoons..



Any comments??
So I got that going for me...which is nice....

Offline rallymodeller

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Whittle's idea was a bust!
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2005, 02:56:10 pm »
Quote
Think o fthe possibilites...B-25 in Euro I, Desert Pink Mozzie, Falklands Corsair, Modern USN/USMC Avanger carrying Harpoons..

 
Avenger wouldn't be carrying Harpoons -- they're powered by little jets.

I do like the idea, though. Some Luft 46 planes might be apropos. Gives it a more "modern" look.
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Offline AeroplaneDriver

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Whittle's idea was a bust!
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2005, 04:11:08 pm »
Quote
Quote
Think o fthe possibilites...B-25 in Euro I, Desert Pink Mozzie, Falklands Corsair, Modern USN/USMC Avanger carrying Harpoons..

 
Avenger wouldn't be carrying Harpoons -- they're powered by little jets.

I do like the idea, though. Some Luft 46 planes might be apropos. Gives it a more "modern" look.
Ooopsss...think before typing.... :D  I guess most stand off missiles will be out!

I wa thinking the same thing abouthte Luft 46 stuff...some of the later allied prop stuff too, like a piston powered Wyvern or something.
So I got that going for me...which is nice....

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« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2005, 03:22:14 am »
An AW 52 as a twin Griifon/Sabre powered pusher medium bomber  :wub: Griffon Mossies and Hornets, or a Centauras powered metal skinned Hornet for Far East service ?

Some of that "lost" generation of Allied 46 stuff - I love this idea Aeroplane Driver -thankyou, thankyou, thankyou  :wub:

Plenty of kits out there albeit a lot in resin.

One question if no turbojets - would there have been turbo-props ?

Chris
 
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Offline Hobbes

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« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2005, 04:04:00 am »
No new airframes for 50 years? It's your Wif of course, but I'd expect new designs to be pumped out at the same rate as IRL, just with props rather than jet engines. New materials and a better understanding of aerodynamics would have changed the way the planes looked.

Engine advances were also interesting. The last generation of piston engines (like the  Napier Nomad) used turbochargers, superchargers and/or turbocompound drive in an effort to become more efficient. Extrapolate for 50 years, and as much as 6000 shp may be available for a 30-litre engine. To get close to Mach 1 with  a useful payload, you'd need two engines (also leaves the nose free for radar...)
« Last Edit: November 02, 2015, 06:14:47 am by Hobbes »

Offline AeroplaneDriver

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Whittle's idea was a bust!
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2005, 07:02:17 am »
I thought about turboprops, and I'm fine with a scenario where only pure-jet propulsion never worked.

As for aerodynamic advances...I think something like a combat version of the Pond Racer that raced at Reno for a few years before its tragic destruction might have been the ultimate expression of a propeller driven warplane.  The prop itself is going to be the limiting factor when it comes to Mach 1, so nifty designs with scimitar blades might have appeared to nudge a fraction closer to that magic number.

I think the big advance in propulsion would come with FADEC-type (Full Authority Digital Engine Control, basically fly-by-wire throttles) engine controls.  Some of the brand new rivate aircraft are using this technology and it should make a huge difference in pilot workload, engine life, and operating cost.  These are all factors that could be used to pump every available HP from the avialable cu.in.!

I know it would be unlikely to soldier on with the same airframes for 50 years....but then again how long has the B-52 been around now?  The Canberra PR.9 is retiring this year after how long..?  Sure, there would have been new designs like the Pond Racer, but its also not too far fetched to imagine WW2 airframes remaining in production well into the 50s and serving into the 90s.

The thing that got me thinking about this as a GB is the fact that it leaves so much room for interpretation.  One person can build an OOB Mustang and paint it Euro 1 while the next can scratchbuild a version of the aforementioned Pond Racer with a brace of Mavericks.
So I got that going for me...which is nice....

Offline The Rat

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Whittle's idea was a bust!
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2005, 03:34:58 pm »
This carries all sorts of possibilities! Obviously the Martin Baker MB-5 would figure in the new scenario, and derivatives.

And how about this; the centrifugal and axial flow jets failed, but the Caproni idea of using a radial engine as a compressor actually worked!  :o

Pulse-jets and ram jets too?
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« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2005, 01:53:51 am »
The idea of modern control systems in aircraft powered by "ultimate" piston engines is fascinating. You also have to factor in the advances in fuel technology etc.  I just have these thoughts of heavily loaded Wyvrens and Sky Pirates etc being escorted to target by Spitefull's MB 5's and Bearcats.

As I said previously some of the Allied piston engined projects that never made it because of the advent of the jet engine could have been fantastic given time to iron out the wrinkles.

Douglas Mixmaster armed with 2/4 ram jet powered stand off weapons ?

Now a piston engined pusher Vampire light strike fighter  :wub:

Chris
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Offline Hobbes

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« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2005, 05:14:29 am »
Flying Flapjack-style STOL aircraft? Boeing 747-sized aircraft with huge piston engines (maybe with 'ducted fan' propellers)?

Offline John Howling Mouse

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Whittle's idea was a bust!
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2005, 07:53:15 am »
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« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2005, 11:07:12 pm »
Seldom has an idea stimulated my modeling buds so much. A lot of my builds are 1940's projects anyway but now I have a "reson d'etre". Now I can get on with some building on the basis of "well the turbojet was 15 years behind it's actual timeline" rather then "well the Wyvren was developed 4 years earlier"

Chris
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Offline lancer

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« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2005, 02:38:33 am »
Good idea 'planedriver. I like it. Now to start thinking.  
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