Russian Sabres

[Geoff]

In 1952 Vladimir Kondratiev proposed serial production of the reverse engineered F-86E Sabre. Stalin OKed this idea and he went to OKB-1 (Mig's).
Skipping a long political sing song - they got to a full scale mock up stage when they ran out of time, Kondratiev was replaced by Pavel Sukhoi and the Sabre project was cancelled on19/09/53.

What if? Would it have been an Su-?

[Geoff]

Russian reverse engineered F-86EYou cannot view this attachment.

[Rick Lowe]

Imagine them squaring off against US Sabres... very like the Op Downfall US/Japanese 262 builds on here...

[Geoff]

Imagine them squaring off against US Sabres... very like the Op Downfall US/Japanese 262 builds on here...

    

[Charlie_c67]

Have to wonder how they'd stack up considering the difference in technological levels between the two countries. One faster and heavier whilst the other more nimble with extra bells and whistles?

[PR19_Kit]

I wondered how long the Russian-ised J-47 would last too.

[Charlie_c67]

I guess with the difference in metallurgical abilities between the two countries, not long if they could make it at all. More likely some sort of Soviet-fied version akin to the VK-1 and Nene.

[Rick Lowe]

I guess with the difference in metallurgical abilities between the two countries, not long if they could make it at all. More likely some sort of Soviet-fied version akin to the VK-1 and Nene.

So more like a Soviet Avon Sabre, or Fury?

[zenrat]

The thread title makes me think of Cossacks.

[Geoff]

I guess with the difference in metallurgical abilities between the two countries, not long if they could make it at all. More likely some sort of Soviet-fied version akin to the VK-1 and Nene.

The VK-1 was too wide so the AM-5 was slated for the clone according to the video

[Geoff]

I was also wondering about the armament  and settled on 3x 23mm. Thoughts?

[Charlie_c67]

I guess with the difference in metallurgical abilities between the two countries, not long if they could make it at all. More likely some sort of Soviet-fied version akin to the VK-1 and Nene.

The VK-1 was too wide so the AM-5 was slated for the clone according to the video

Knew I'd heard of the Russkie alternative, just couldn't think where, probably this video!

I was also wondering about the armament  and settled on 3x 23mm. Thoughts?

On each side or in total?

[Charlie_c67]

I guess with the difference in metallurgical abilities between the two countries, not long if they could make it at all. More likely some sort of Soviet-fied version akin to the VK-1 and Nene.

So more like a Soviet Avon Sabre, or Fury?

Or Sapphire. Not sure where the Soviets....acquired their axial engines from, other than the German Jumo's which they had trouble with too I believe.

[Geoff]

I guess with the difference in metallurgical abilities between the two countries, not long if they could make it at all. More likely some sort of Soviet-fied version akin to the VK-1 and Nene.

The VK-1 was too wide so the AM-5 was slated for the clone according to the video

Knew I'd heard of the Russkie alternative, just couldn't think where, probably this video!

I was also wondering about the armament  and settled on 3x 23mm. Thoughts?

On each side or in total?

In total, I decided the clone was to match the F-86 not a bomber destroyer, so the slow firing 37mm was no good - so 2x 23mm to starboard and 1x 23mm to port. The option would 6x 13.5mm MGs.

[Geoff]

I guess with the difference in metallurgical abilities between the two countries, not long if they could make it at all. More likely some sort of Soviet-fied version akin to the VK-1 and Nene.

So more like a Soviet Avon Sabre, or Fury?

Yep, could be the way they went. Also if you did enlarge the fuselage and give it reheat and the 3x 23mm guns you might get an F-86H clone?