Main Menu
avatar_RAFF-35

FFN Surcouf

Started by RAFF-35, May 03, 2026, 11:03:19 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Weaver

#15
Special ops would be good because the hanger could be filled with a variety of James Bond goodies, from assault boats to mini-subs.

Could also be good for harrasment or distraction raids, to confuse the Japanese as to where a landing might take place. Surface at 4am, fire four salvoes of 8" at some random target, then vanish into the night, leaving the Japanese scratching their heads wondering where the hell that came from... :wacko:  :wacko:  :wacko:
"Things need not have happened to be true. Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."
 - Sandman: A Midsummer Night's Dream, by Neil Gaiman

"I dunno, I'm making this up as I go."
 - Indiana Jones

jcf

Quote from: Weaver on May 06, 2026, 05:39:14 PMSpecial ops would be good because the hanger could be filled with a variety of James Bond goodies, from assault boats to mini-subs.

Could also be good for harrasment or distraction raids, to confuse the Japanese as to where a landing might take place. Surface at 4am, fire four salvoes of 8" at some random target, then vanish into the night, leaving the Japanese scratching their heads wondering where the hell that came from... :wacko:  :wacko:  :wacko:
The Japanese already knew where the landings were going to take place because, unlike
France, the geography determined where one could and couldn't land. The Surcouf could
take part in the already planned harassment campaign, but it wouldn't have caused any
confusion as to where the landings were going to take place.

Joe CalPo

It would be confusing having cruiser-sized shells landing yet no cruiser to be seen.

A commando in the hangar with boats.

Or one of the US's Loons.  I learned the US produced copies of the V-1 during WW2! Imagine launching a KGW-1 (USN designation) from the hangar and rail against Japanese targets!
In want of hobby space!  The kitchen table is never stable.  Still managing to get some building done.

RAFF-35

Quote from: Joe C-P on May 08, 2026, 06:54:00 PMIt would be confusing having cruiser-sized shells landing yet no cruiser to be seen.

A commando in the hangar with boats.

Or one of the US's Loons.  I learned the US produced copies of the V-1 during WW2! Imagine launching a KGW-1 (USN designation) from the hangar and rail against Japanese targets!

I absolutely love the commando idea! I wonder how many commando boats could fit in the Surcouf's hanger? 🤔

I didn't realise the US made Loons during WW2  :o  That would also be a really cool concept  :lol:
Don't let ageing get you down, it's too hard to get back up

RAFF-35

I haven't got much experience with photo etch parts, so you can imagine how much fun I've had installing the railings and ladders etc today 😬 Just don't look too closely!
Don't let ageing get you down, it's too hard to get back up

buzzbomb

Well I reckon you have done a great job. :thumbsup:

Old Wombat

Your PE work looks better than anything comparable that I've ever done! Good job!  :thumbsup:
Has a life outside of What-If & wishes it would stop interfering!

"The purpose of all War is Peace" - St. Augustine

veritas ad mortus veritas est

Old Wombat

The first part of this video has significant relevance to this project:

Has a life outside of What-If & wishes it would stop interfering!

"The purpose of all War is Peace" - St. Augustine

veritas ad mortus veritas est

RAFF-35

I've had some time to start painting, the idea behind this scheme is that as part of the refit by the Royal Navy, a new camouflage was applied. The camouflage was designed,  not to hide the submarine entirely,  but to obscure what sort of vessel it was and which direction it was headed.
My inspiration for this is drawn from the 1942 HMS Hermes scheme.

I've only done a first pass and will need to go over everything again to neaten it all up. Then I will paint in some details, followed by decals and weathering.
Don't let ageing get you down, it's too hard to get back up

sandiego89

Quote from: Weaver on May 06, 2026, 05:39:14 PMCould also be good for harrasment or distraction raids, to confuse the Japanese as to where a landing might take place. Surface at 4am, fire four salvoes of 8" at some random target, then vanish into the night, leaving the Japanese scratching their heads wondering where the hell that came from...

I agree, I was about to suggest the same type of harassing fire. 

I too have a soft spot for the Surcouf as I had this model as a young teen and devoured the Strike From the Sea novel about her. 

What's not to like?! submarine with big guns, neat lines and a float plane! 
Dave "Sandiego89"
Chesapeake, Virginia, USA

NARSES2

Camo scheme is looking good  :thumbsup:
Do not condemn the judgement of another because it differs from your own. You may both be wrong.

buzzbomb

Like it... works well

RAFF-35

#27
Weathered and finished! Although for some reason in the finished shots you can't see the difference between the PRU blue and the dark grey???  :o 

Here's the full backstory,  with the part pertaining to Operation Downfall towards the bottom and titled as such.

When France collapsed under the weight of the German Blitzkrieg in June 1940, the giant submarine cruiser Surcouf narrowly escaped a similar fate. Incomplete and undergoing refit when the invasion began, she was hurriedly made seaworthy and slipped from a French port under the threat of advancing German forces. Damaged and carrying only essential stores, the massive submarine limped across the Channel through waters prowled by German aircraft and E-boats before finally reaching the safety of Britain.
Recognising the unique potential of the world's largest submarine, the Royal Navy offered to complete and expand the refit already underway in France. British engineers worked closely alongside Free French sailors, transforming the vessel into a formidable commerce raider.
The work included enlarging the rear diving planes, fitting larger ballast tank valves to improve diving times, and adding substantial bilge keels to improve stability during surface operations. The vessel's most important improvement was to her fire-control system. The massive twin 203 mm gun turret was linked to a Mk. IX Admiralty Fire Control Table through a modified telescopic rangefinder. This ingenious arrangement allowed firing solutions to be calculated while submerged at periscope depth, enabling the guns to be trained onto a target before the submarine even surfaced.
The aircraft hangar, originally intended for the Besson reconnaissance seaplane, was stripped of aviation equipment. By 1941 the vulnerable aircraft concept was considered obsolete, and the space was converted into a flexible storage compartment. Initially, it was used to house fuel and supplies.
A modern British wireless suite dramatically improved communications and coordination with Allied naval forces. Finally, the submarine received a new camouflage scheme designed for helping break up her large silhouette when operating on the surface.
The extensive collaboration fostered a strong bond between the Free French crew and their British counterparts. Once formally assigned to the Free French Navy, Surcouf was released from impoundment and entered active service.

For nearly two years, Surcouf served in the North Atlantic. Though hardly suited to traditional convoy escort duties, her immense range and endurance proved valuable. She escorted convoys through dangerous waters, and transported critical cargoes in her spacious prisoner compartments and converted aircraft hangar.
Several German supply ships and auxiliary vessels fell victim to her unusual tactics. Approaching submerged, she would surface unexpectedly, unleash a devastating barrage from her twin 8-inch guns, and disappear beneath the waves before escorts could react. The psychological impact often exceeded the physical damage.
By late 1942, however, Allied fortunes were improving in the Atlantic, while the Pacific demanded every available asset.

In early 1943, Surcouf transited through the Panama Canal and joined Allied forces in the Pacific.
There, she found her true purpose.
The Japanese Empire had overrun numerous French possessions across the Pacific and Southeast Asia. To the Free French sailors aboard, the war became deeply personal. Surcouf embarked upon a relentless campaign of harassment and disruption against Japanese shipping and isolated island garrisons.
Operating alone for weeks at a time, she became a nightmare for Japanese commanders. Her large guns could destroy merchant vessels without expending valuable torpedoes, while her submarine nature allowed her to vanish before retaliatory forces arrived.
Japanese naval intelligence often struggled to determine whether attacks had been carried out by submarines, surface raiders, or aircraft. This uncertainty became one of Surcouf's greatest weapons.
As Allied forces began their island-hopping campaign, Surcouf pioneered a new role.
Using intelligence from coastwatchers and reconnaissance aircraft, she would approach Japanese-held islands under cover of darkness. Remaining submerged until the final moments, the submarine would suddenly surface within range of coastal installations.
Her massive turret would already be trained onto predetermined targets thanks to the British fire-control modifications.
Without warning, the night sky would erupt with flashes from the twin 203 mm guns.
Shells would crash into supply dumps, artillery batteries, headquarters buildings, fuel stores, and communications centres. After firing only a handful of carefully aimed salvos, Surcouf would immediately dive.
By the time Japanese searchlights swept the sea and coastal batteries opened fire, their attacker had vanished.
The submarine repeated these surprise bombardments throughout the Solomon Islands, New Guinea, the Marianas, the Philippines, and Okinawa. Japanese commanders frequently overestimated the size of the forces attacking them, sometimes diverting troops and artillery to defend against nonexistent surface fleets.

The removal of the aircraft facilities unexpectedly opened an entirely new mission.
The converted hangar now housed two powerful motor-launch boats equipped with quiet engines, collapsible masts, and reinforced hulls for beach landings.
Beginning in 1944, Surcouf became one of the Pacific's most unusual special operations vessels.
Approaching hostile coastlines submerged during daylight, she would surface at night a few miles offshore. Crews would open the hangar doors and launch the motor boats carrying teams of Free French Commandos, U.S. Marine Raiders, Army Rangers, naval beach reconnaissance units, and later OSS operatives.
These teams performed a variety of missions including; reconnaissance of future landing beaches, destruction of radar installations, capture of Japanese documents, sabotage of fuel depots and supply dumps, insertion of coastwatchers and resistance agents and the rescuing of downed Allied airmen.
The submarine's size allowed it to carry far larger raiding parties than conventional submarines. Several operations inserted over fifty commandos at a time.
Japanese forces rarely suspected a submarine cruiser as the source of such attacks.

Operation Downfall
The culmination of Surcouf's wartime career came during preparations for Operation Downfall, the planned invasion of the Japanese Home Islands.
Before the projected landings, the submarine operated continuously off the coasts of Kyushu and Shikoku.
Night after night she slipped through Japanese patrol lines and launched reconnaissance teams from her motor-launch boats. These commandos surveyed beaches, measured tides, sampled sand for vehicle trafficability, mapped obstacles, and monitored Japanese troop movements.
Many of these missions took place within sight of Japanese positions.
On several occasions the commandos narrowly avoided capture, returning to the submarine with invaluable intelligence that later shaped Allied invasion planning.
Simultaneously, Surcouf conducted an aggressive campaign of deception.
Appearing unexpectedly along different stretches of coastline, she would surface briefly and bombard selected targets. Sometimes she attacked military facilities; at other times she deliberately struck secondary positions to create confusion.
A few rapid salvos would crash ashore before disappearing beneath the waves.
The unpredictable bombardments forced defenders to disperse troops and artillery along vast stretches of coastline, complicating their preparations against the anticipated invasion.
American planners later credited these operations with creating significant uncertainty within Japanese regional commands and helping to ensure the successful landings of Operation Downfall.
Don't let ageing get you down, it's too hard to get back up

DeeBob

Absolutely magnificent!
Perfect is the enemy of Finished. I presume. I've never achieved either.

buzzbomb