Avro Vulcan B Mk.4

[Weaver]

replaced the Buccaneer in the anti-shipping role.

H'mm. Not sure the wings would fit on an aircraft carrier?

Engine wise the tried and tested Rolls-Royce Spey but as a whiff why not use the Tornado engines

These engines were underpowered for the Vulcan, severely restricting payload-range and max speed. The Spey with afterburner had enough power but, of course, excessive fuel consumption.

A redesigned Olympus with modest bypass around a smaller core was studied, but rejected as it was effectively a new engine and the remaining airframe life would not justify the development cost.

The RR Conway was the low-bypass turbofan equivalent of the Bristol Olympus. There were plans to put Conways in advanced Vulcan versions. There were also plans to fit the Vulcan's Olympus engines with separate aft-fan units, mounted to the airframe, not the engine, to turn them into turbofans, the advantage being that the Olympus cose wouldn't have to be redesigned.

[McColm]

replaced the Buccaneer in the anti-shipping role.

H'mm. Not sure the wings would fit on an aircraft carrier?

Engine wise the tried and tested Rolls-Royce Spey but as a whiff why not use the Tornado engines

These engines were underpowered for the Vulcan, severely restricting payload-range and max speed. The Spey with afterburner had enough power but, of course, excessive fuel consumption.

A redesigned Olympus with modest bypass around a smaller core was studied, but rejected as it was effectively a new engine and the remaining airframe life would not justify the development cost.

The RR Conway was the low-bypass turbofan equivalent of the Bristol Olympus. There were plans to put Conways in advanced Vulcan versions. There were also plans to fit the Vulcan's Olympus engines with separate aft-fan units, mounted to the airframe, not the engine, to turn them into turbofans, the advantage being that the Olympus cose wouldn't have to be redesigned.

It would have made sense to me to use the the Conways in both of the bombers as the H.P.Victor B.2 had these fitted.

[steelpillow]

The Conway's max thrust was around 15% down on the Olympus, at ca 17,000+ as opposed to 20,000+. MTOW would have to have been significantly reduced, and not all of that could have come from fuel savings. Max speed and altitude would also have been hit.

[McColm]

The Conway's max thrust was around 15% down on the Olympus, at ca 17,000+ as opposed to 20,000+. MTOW would have to have been significantly reduced, and not all of that could have come from fuel savings. Max speed and altitude would also have been hit.

Thanks for the information 

[steelpillow]

The Avro Type 722 Atlantic airliner was a 100-seat plus derivative of the Vulcan. Probably just as well it was canned, if only because access to emergency exits would have been a problem. What if a smaller airliner, created directly as a variant of the basic Vulcan design, had been pursued?

The most visible design change for the rethought Atlantic was the lowering of the engines into underwing fairings, much like the later Concorde. The 2,000 lb thrust Olympus military jets were replaced by 17,000 lb thrust Conway civil turbofans, bringing around 10% improvement in specific thrust. However the 15% reduction in maximum thrust meant that at least a 5% reduction in max weight had to be found, in order to control induced drag and maintain cruise speed. Max weight was reduced from 20,000 lb to 19,000 lb. Unfortunately the Conways weighed another 500 lb each, so a further 2,000 lb had to be found. The 20,000 lb bomb load was reduced to around 13,000 lb civil payload, with airframe weight growth roughly balanced out by the removal of military avionics and reduction of the crew from five to four.
The crew now comprised pilot, copilot and two stewardesses. Seating for 54 passengers was found, based on two significant structural modifications.
First was the raising of the upper fuselage mid and aft decking. Instead of tapering away behind the point of maximum wing root thickness, it maintained a constant diameter back almost to the main undercarriage, and then tapered back to a slightly longer and sharper tailcone. This made room for six rows of four-abreast seating, with a central aisle, behind the main front cross-member, and also improved area-ruling to reduce drag at high cruising speeds.
The leading-edge engine intakes were not closed off, but glazed over. Between the leading edge and the forward crossmember, a triangular cabin seating five passengers was created on each side. Behind the crossmember, a further four passengers could be accommodated in each wing. Further back, over and outboard of the old engine positions, fuel tankage was juggled around to make room for baggage holds. First-class luggage was accommodated in the tailcone, ensuring minimal change in trim with passenger loading.
Finally, the fuel capacity was reduced by removing the central tank between cockpit and bomb bay. In the fore part of this space the galley, and crew and first-class toilets, were fitted, while in the aft part another twelve passengers could be seated. In between, on either side and just forward of the wing roots, were entry/exit doors. Seats in front of the forward cross-member were first class, those behind it second class. This brought the total passenger capacity to 22 first class and 32 second class, making 54 in all.
Aft of the second class cabin, a gently tapering observation corridor led back to low doors just aft of the jet pipes. Although increasingly cramped aft, it proved popular, as the main cabin windows were little more than skylights.
With full passenger complement, the baggage allowance was somewhat limited, so the generous provision of first-class seats would seldom be fully occupied and airlines tended to replace a few with coffee tables, to create a more relaxed lounge atmosphere.

Like most British jets, sales were limited by politics as much as anything. Nevertheless, its low development cost and limited size meant that it could be, and was, sold at an attractive price. A modest fleet of the type, bearing the Atlantic name, delivered a reliable high-speed luxury service to New York and around the world for many years. It is also said to have inspired the supersonic tailless delta form which was ultimately developed into Concorde.

It was the first type acquired by Richard Branson for his new airline, giving its name to Virgin Atlantic. The overflight of Buckingham Palace by The Who, in their psychedelically decorated Atlantic with a rude slogan on the underside and Keith "loony" Moon living up to his name through one of the first class windows, is legendary. The story of the last three Avro Atlantics in service, and their adventures as troop transports and an EW/ELINT platform during the Falklands War, remains to be told.

Although considered, none of the Atlantic modifications, other than a few avionics bits and pieces, would find their way into the later Vulcan B Mk.4. They were both derived from the B Mk. 2, but were redesigns at very different levels, and for very different purposes.

[McColm]

I have tried building the Avro Type 722 Atlantic airliner in 1/72 scale,  using two Airfix kits the old Avro Vulcan for the wings,  engines and landing gear,  and the HS/BAe Nimrod MR.2P Nimrod fuselage. Instead of the six engines I stuck with the four. I was inexperienced at the time and didn't realise that plastic spars would be needed to keep the Vulcan wings in place. I might have overlooked the fact of using too much filler/putty. Cracks started appearing due to the stress on the structure.
I have no doubt that I will attempt this build again, maybe in a different media or something smaller in scale.

[NARSES2]

The overflight of Buckingham Palace by The Who, in their psychedelically decorated Atlantic with a rude slogan on the underside and Keith "loony" Moon living up to his name through one of the first class windows, is legendary. The story of the last three Avro Atlantics in service, and their adventures as troop transports and an EW/ELINT platform during the Falklands War, remains to be told.

  

[steelpillow]

So it haunted my dreams and drove me to burrow through my stash. It has me in its power.

The Trumpeter 1:144 scale B Mk.2 is quite a nice kit. Lots of delicate detail, basic cockpit, pretty accurate. Niggles over the fit of the outer wings and the tailcone, and some overscaled detail such as scale two-inch pipework and upturned saucepans under the wing and brick-width intake splitter plates, nothing that can't be easily fixed.

Topside pic shows marking-out for cutting off the upper decking prior to lowering. Underside has regular bomb door and inter-wing boxes from the kit, one inter-wing box extension laid roughly in place, one intake lip lowered and taken back (other one marked), nose thingummajig removed and blanked off. Nameless excrescences deleted.

Cockpit extended rearwards in case anything can be seen through the planned extra side windows. Not a lot, as they will be rather small and the whole interior will be ENS powder-coated.

[steelpillow]

Hacking about completed, building back up has shaped up the major profile changes. What is it with this Whiff? I get all antsy if I haven't done my daily quota. Anyway:

Upper fuselage cut down, area-ruled and wing root blended in, looks pretty mean from the side:



Interior hacked to lower intake rim and increase area. Had to replace the locator pins with some plasticard:



Top view shows new leading-edge profile taking shape: no upper surface skinning yet. Cockpit rear fairing is a thinned-down Hawker Hunter nose from the spares box:



And a touch of attitude to the tip of the tailcone, still to be faired in:

[steelpillow]

Leading-edge upper skinning supports. I never bend unsupported skinning any more, but always use thick 1mm (40 thou) plastic card in sections, slightly proud of the desired profile. If the profile is not spot on (and my work never is!), then a layer of filler will shrink and cause a thin curved skin to warp, impossible to stabilise. Filing down thick stuff makes a mess but gives good control of the final profile.

[steelpillow]

Much progress. Upper forward section almost ready for main assembly, just needs the cockpit fairing refining before gluing in the cockpit. We won't talk about why it's such a patched-up mess.



Can't be bothered to do a neat job of the cockpit. Will be almost invisible anyway, at best just the odd vague flash of khaki green. Crew seats are rear-facing ejector type, black-backed, so no point in adding three perfectly camouflaged tombstones.



Underside also ready. Engine cross-fairings extended, European Night Sky (ENS) intake ducts (smaller than they look here). Wing outer sections flawed in the kit, precisely the same on both sides, so some kind of hiccup in the CAD model; a mix of whittling and filling required. Also, much scraping down of the mating surfaces on both this and the upper piece, as they are moulded too thick compared to the insets in the other piece, creating steps in the undersurface along the joins. Amazing what a mess scraping down large areas of plastic makes!



Engine intakes assembled. More ENS. Not shown are the nice silver engine compressor discs at the back: defeated my camera. Will glue  these in at the same time as joining the upper and lower fuselage, to ensure alignment.



And finally the tail. Leading extension has to droop to match the area ruling beneath, so cut off and detailed for reattachment. Kit tailcone is angled up too much towards the rear, had to cut down round the fin to separate them, adjust the fit of the tailcone, and extend the fin trailing edge downward. Will have to add the tailcone after joining the main assembly, then sculpt the rear upper decking and wing roots, then add fin.

[Zero-Sen]

....
A few attemps from the past.

Vulcaneer I did a few years ago...


Vulcan B.2 (Dragon 1/200) + 'Su-47 (Revell 1/144) = Vulcaneer PR1 kitbash (big wings deserve to be dressed in PRU blue).

[steelpillow]

Vulcan FB Mk.5? Love it! Where does the black bit come from? Will we ever see it finished?

Thanks for the thread link, I had no idea there were so many Vulcan whiffs on this forum. I am always happy when I find I am in good company.
BTW, back in Reality^TM, they did put a couple of Skybolt ballistic missiles under the odd Vulcan, but then cancelled the idea. And the odd Shrike anti-radiation missile for Black Buck.

[Captain Canada]

Black bit looks like a Berkut. Great idea ! Sure changes the machine !

And bice work on the mk.4 ! Love the LE extension, Can't wai to see more !

[steelpillow]

Cockpit in, ready for the grand assembly.



However, the nose has somehow curled up a touch and has opened up a crocodile mouth. Definitely not the lower half curling down. Most can be accommodated with a little light pressure while drying, but the very tip curled even more and needed a couple of shims; added below to avoid risk of damaging locating pins.



Meanwhile, my 18-wheeler lost one of its tiny 5mm wheels to the carpet monster, so I am having to make another. A piece of 15 thou plasticard with a hole in, glued to a 20 thou piece with no hole. Not sure what I'll do about the spokes on the other side, probably just put it inside back and ignore it.