Discussion Mk II

[Weaver]

I found a little something about two programs that are definitely part RW.
The Dynasoar X-20 space plane.
The X-15 delta wing proposal.
Both are available from Fantastic Plastic and could be whiffed a number of ways. More to follow.

The X-15C delta was a looker too, but then I do like deltas...

[Weaver]

1. Von Braun Retriever Rocket(s).
I have two of these. Not sure what the what-if would be, possibly making them more real-world practical (attitude jets, replace the nose-mounted reactor+shadow-shield with solar panels and radiators, bigger engine bell, put the comms dish on a tower so that half it's arc isn't blocked by the tanks).

Good mods. It's a pretty good kit for its age, too. The bottle suit in the airlock is a bit awkward.

Yes, I've test-fitted quite a lot of it and it seems to go together nicely as far as I can tell. Both mine are the Glencoe re-pops not original Stombeckers too, so that's even more impressive from decades old molds.

By awkward, do you mean the design of the bottle suit or the fit of the parts in the kit?

I actually really like the concept of the bottle suit, although I'm not keen on the small thruster mounted on top of the clear dome! Astronauts on EVA do most of their work with their hands, but they're really awkward because of the thick gloves, and even then, their fingers end up freezing cold after a few hours because the gloves just can't be made thick enough. Meanwhile, their legs present all the suit articulation problems of the arms, but are hardly used. The bottle suit puts the astronaut in a shirt-sleeve environment, in a craft which is not much bigger than an EVA suit, but which has gyros, maneuvering thrusters and is MUCH easier to heat and cool. A real one might need a bit more volume for systems than the Von Braun one, being more cylindrical than cone-shaped, but I still think it's a good idea.

2. Willy Ley Space Taxi.
Got one, but it makes so little sense to me that I'm struggling to come up with a scheme for it, and there's WAY less info online about this than there is about the Von Braun projects.

I enjoyed this one - the surface is covered in bolts and the thrusters on each end are rudimentary. Maybe a bigger thruster at one end, attitude thrusters and manipulator arms?

What I don't get is the logic of the basic concept:

If the cargo can stand being in the vacuum of space for loading/unloading, then why does it need to be enclosed for the journey? Couldn't you just strap it to an open frame or cage?

Why do the passengers, who DO benefit from an enclosed environment, have to travel in the open cages, wrigging their way past the engines to get in and out?

How does the shirt-sleeves pilot get in and out of the craft? It seems incapable of making an airtight docking at any face: does he have to put a space suit on just to enter and leave? If that's so, then that's a real PITA: we know now from real-life spaceflight that putting an EVA suit on takes hours, not minutes.


My thoughts are much the same as yours:

Bigger engine at the back with bigger spherical tanks in the rear cage.

Attitude jets.

Scrap the front cage (a shame, 'cos it's nicely molded) and replace it with manipulator arms and a docking hatch for the pilot.

Make the cabin door airtight so that astronaut passengers can at least take their helmets and gloves off in the cabin and replenish their suit supplies.
Make

[Mossie]

This has potential for this GB.  Sunbird, a fusion drive that has the potential to decrease travel times markedly through the solar system. It accelerates slowly, so the further you travel, the more your journey time is improved.

Fusion has a had a difficult time here on earth but using it in space within a vacuum is less problematic.

The idea is to have them docked in orbit, they'll then attach to a spacecraft and propel it to wherever you want to go.

https://pulsarfusion.com/sunbird-fusion-propulsion/

[frank2056]

There's also TFINER, which uses a thin film of a nuclear isotope to generate up to 150 km/s delta-v. This is close to the speeds in "The Expanse" and it doesn't require new technologies

[frank2056]

By awkward, do you mean the design of the bottle suit or the fit of the parts in the kit?

I like the bottle suit design, but the location on the outside of the ship looks odd. I would either bring it all the way into the airlock, or put the hatch on the rear and "dock" the suit parallel to the main body of the ship

The Space Taxi would need to be modified like you suggested. I think the design was based on using discarded rocket parts, but that doesn't make much sense, either. The pilot also has to exit through his hatch, even though there's a "door" going to the front cage.

[kerick]

If you search lunar hopper or lunar rover all kinds of things show up. There is or was a serious proposal for a "hopping" vehicle to explore hard to reach lunar polar regions. I believe it uses small thrusters instead of jumping grasshopper legs. But that could look pretty wild. Lots of references to rovers past, present and future.

[Weaver]

By awkward, do you mean the design of the bottle suit or the fit of the parts in the kit?

I like the bottle suit design, but the location on the outside of the ship looks odd. I would either bring it all the way into the airlock, or put the hatch on the rear and "dock" the suit parallel to the main body of the ship

In effect, the bottle suit IS a flying airlock. In the Disney film, you can see the commander arriving on-board via bottle suit. There's a single, domed hatch over the suit docking port. You're right about it being off-axis: whether it's present or absent changed the centre-of-mass of the craft and thus whether the thrust line of the main engine still goes through it. This is all another good argument against the top-mounted rocket too: it's pointing into the main crew compartment when the suit's docked and the inner hatch is open! Imagine if it fired accidentally...

This is all making me think that maybe a rotating solar panel+radiator array should be on the bottom of the craft where the bottle-suit port is, and the latter should be on the nose. That would entail replacing the ogival nose cone with a tubular one containing an access tunnel with the avionics wrapped around it. With a pressure door at each end, that would give it an airlock that still worked even if the bottle suit wasn't docked. Makes sense for a pure spacecraft, but there isn't much left of the original spaceplane fuselage once all this has been done.

[Weaver]

Loads of stuff on Bottle Suits and Space Taxis here on Atomic Rockets (scroll down near the bottom of the VERY long page):

https://projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/spacesuits.php#bottlesuit


And also about the Von Braun craft (here called the RM-1, about a quarter of the way down):

https://projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/realdesigns4.php#rm1

[Mossie]

Aha! Found it!

There were some proposals for minimalist Moon landers along those lines. Basically one man in a space suit, straight down, plant flag, straight back up again.

It's a lot like the Ma.K Hornisse.
You cannot view this attachment.

[Weaver]

It's a lot like the Ma.K Hornisse.
You cannot view this attachment.

Definitely got the same vibe, and since all the Ma.Ks were basically very good kitbashes, it's very doable too. I can see even at a quick glance that a Saturn V kit donated it's five F1 engines to that. Also, the top half of the suit is a Hughes 500 helicopter cabin.

[Mossie]

MPC's Pilgrim Observer is a good kit for this GB. I've got one in the stash but its part started, probably not eligible.









Plus a Paragrafix etch sheet thats available for it.


Simon

[McColm]

MPC's Pilgrim Observer is a good kit for this GB. I've got one in the stash but its part started, probably not eligible.









Plus a Paragrafix etch sheet thats available for it.


Simon

I need to contact my  co-moderator ,a PM would be appropriate.

[Mossie]

MPC's Pilgrim Observer is a good kit for this GB. I've got one in the stash but its part started, probably not eligible.









Plus a Paragrafix etch sheet thats available for it.


Simon

I need to contact my  co-moderator ,a PM would be appropriate.

Hi Steven, you can hold off for now, I'm not intending to build it (I may change my mind, if so, I'll PM you). Posted it for inspiration.

[Weaver]

Whoa, that was a catch Mossie!   

[Mossie]

Whoa, that was a catch Mossie!   

Nice isn't it? Round 2 re-popped it about 10 years ago and I picked one up at Telford and got the etch set later. It comes with two nose cones, the clear set are missing as I gifted them to a friend who immediately coveted them when I opened the box!

I started it, putting some of the tanks together and painted the base but got no further.