"The Dam Busters" - Movie aircraft.

[buzzbomb]

Looks to be a good choice of colour scheme.
Of the myriad of options for Olive Drab that you have these days... that Tempest version appears to be one of them   

[zenrat]

Just Vallejo Olive Drab.  I was going to quote a number then but checking my paint app it seems I have 3 different bottles and no idea which one I used.

I found this pic on line.  A period kodachrome exposure which purports to show how badly Olive Drab faded - the paint round the cheek window is supposed to be fresh OD.


https://generalaviationnews.com/2018/03/08/kodachrome-captured-world-war-ii-color/

I say "purports" and "supposed" because obviously we have no idea how the original negs have stood up or what adjustments have been made to the digital images.
The new paint for example looks very dark to me (viewed on my laptop screen through my eyes in the lounge room at 2225 with the light off and the TV on).,,

[scooter]

The new paint for example looks very dark to me (viewed on my laptop screen through my eyes in the lounge room at 2225 with the light off and the TV on).,,

0850-ish, in the office with the lights on and the blinds open on a 32" screen, and it looks pretty dark to me as well.

[zenrat]

If you look at the bloke cleaning the nose transparency you will notice that he appears to have a mobile phone in the back pocket of his overalls...

[scooter]

If you look at the bloke cleaning the nose transparency you will notice that he appears to have a mobile phone in the back pocket of his overalls...

Could be a field guide.  Its too big to be a mobile, but too small to be a tablet

[NARSES2]

Olive Drab over USAF Light Grey with darker green blotches.  I wish I could remember which green I used for this as it is the one I want to use again.

<edit.  I think it's Gunship Green.  We shall see.>

RAAF Foliage Green ? My Lifecolor RAAF set quotes FS 24092

[jcf]

Just Vallejo Olive Drab.  I was going to quote a number then but checking my paint app it seems I have 3 different bottles and no idea which one I used.

I found this pic on line.  A period kodachrome exposure which purports to show how badly Olive Drab faded - the paint round the cheek window is supposed to be fresh OD.


https://generalaviationnews.com/2018/03/08/kodachrome-captured-world-war-ii-color/

I say "purports" and "supposed" because obviously we have no idea how the original negs have stood up or what adjustments have been made to the digital images.
The new paint for example looks very dark to me (viewed on my laptop screen through my eyes in the lounge room at 2225 with the light off and the TV on).,,

Not a "negative" it's a transparency and the Kodachrome transparencies are known for being very stable in terms of retaining colour fidelity. The image is also scanned from the original in the US archives.

When dealing with WWII USAAC/USAAF aircraft there were two official OD paints for aircraft (Ordnance Department OD Green for armoured and softskin vehicles is a separate issue and colour), Olive Drab No.41 and ANA 613. No.41 is a prewar colour, ANA 613 is part of the 1943 Army-Navy standardization program, which was across everything not just paints. They're not the same colour and the USAAF actively resisted adopting ANA 613. Olive Drab No.41 is a brownish olive and notorious for its unstable pigments and it rapidly changed to various brownish, sometimes reddish, hues. The speed and degree of the change very much depended on the operating environment.

Being as the photo is of a field repair, and depending when, it's possible the aircraft was originally finished in OD 41 and the touch up done with ANA 613, which would result in a very different appearance. Heck for all we know it could be Ordnance Department vehicle Olive Drab, which is very much a darker colour, because it was what was to hand.

The standard USAAF scheme for a B-17E was OD 41 over Neutral Gray 43, not Light Grey, Neutral Gray being specified as 50% black and 50% white pigment. The splotches were Medium Green 42. Note that in the USAAC/USAAF documentation OD 41 is not referred to as "green".

[kerick]

Even the rivets are silver from the paint being wore off. I wasn't that far off when as a kid I would drag a brush with a little bit of silver on it over the softball sized rivets to make them stand out. I didn't know I was dry brushing.

What's up with the chin turret? Is it turned all the way backwards?

I think the ground crewman has a deck of cards in his pocket!

[jcf]

Even the rivets are silver from the paint being wore off. I wasn't that far off when as a kid I would drag a brush with a little bit of silver on it over the softball sized rivets to make them stand out. I didn't know I was dry brushing.

What's up with the chin turret? Is it turned all the way backwards?

I think the ground crewman has a deck of cards in his pocket!

The turret is rotated all the way to starboard: You cannot view this attachment.

[zenrat]

If you look at the bloke cleaning the nose transparency you will notice that he appears to have a mobile phone in the back pocket of his overalls...

Could be a field guide.  Its too big to be a mobile, but too small to be a tablet

Looks about the same size as the Samsung A13 mobile phone I had which was too big for my jeans pocket.

...The image is also scanned from the original in the US archives.

And then who knows what "adjustments" might have been made to it once it was released into the wilds of the interweb.

...When dealing with WWII USAAC/USAAF aircraft ...The standard USAAF scheme for a B-17E was OD 41 over Neutral Gray 43, not Light Grey...

When dealing with my collection of paints the scheme for this aircraft will be  USAF light grey, whichever of the 3 Olive Drabs has most in the bottle, and for the splotches probably Gunship Green (I do have Foliage Green but only in lifecolor and didn't have that when I painted the Tempest).

But thanks for the info Jon.  Interesting and informative as usual.   

[Rick Lowe]

Yup, all helps with the minefield that is WW2 OD...

Interesting to see a painted G, too - we're so used to them being bare metal.

[jcf]

A pair of B-17F on the way to bomb a target in Germany in the summer of 1943, it's a pretty good guide as to typical appearance.

B-17F-10-BO 41-24453 was accepted at Boeing Field Seattle 6 July 1942. Arrived in Britain 10 October 1942, lost Schweinfurt raid 17 August 1943.

B-17F-15-BO 41-24497 was accepted at Boeing Field Seattle 21 July 1942.
Arrived in Britain 2 December 1942, ditched in the Channel 6 September 1943 returning from a mission to Stuttgart. Due to local weather conditions the bomb group had spent too long over the target area and the aircraft ran out of fuel while over occupied France. Crew rescued by the crew of a nearby fishing boat, they were ferried to shore and given a bottle of scotch while they warmed up and dried off. The aircraft washed up on shore a couple of days later and was hauled off and scrapped.
You cannot view this attachment.

[zenrat]

Thanks Jon.

Anyone got any tips on the best thing to add to Olive Drab paint to make it look faded like the pics?  Not white i'm thinking.
Possibly a light brown or sand?

[Old Wombat]

Thanks Jon.

Anyone got any tips on the best thing to add to Olive Drab paint to make it look faded like the pics?  Not white i'm thinking.
Possibly a light brown or sand?

If the paint manufacturer you're using has it, I find "Buff" is a good colour for fading browns & greens.

Interesting to not the significantly greater weathering/fading of the cloth control surfaces compared to the metal or everything else.

[jcf]

Thanks Jon.

Anyone got any tips on the best thing to add to Olive Drab paint to make it look faded like the pics?  Not white i'm thinking.
Possibly a light brown or sand?

If the paint manufacturer you're using has it, I find "Buff" is a good colour for fading browns & greens.

Interesting to not the significantly greater weathering/fading of the cloth control surfaces compared to the metal or everything else.

The difference between enamel or lacquer and coloured dope. Technically both OD 41, but
the difference in the chemistry of the coating means they wear and weather differently.
Also control surfaces were finished and balanced before being mounted to the aircraft.