De Havilland Mosquito

[Archibald]

Forget french engines - radial 14M was 700hp, 14N of the Bloch 174 was 1100 hp only. So you'll actually LOSE power
Well, there was the 14R but this was post WWII, rated at 1580 hp, and this one,too, was "a piece of junk"

I like the idea of As-82 engines    Reverse engeniered Mossies ?    

[Maverick]

And if we're doing things exotically,  how about BMW 801s off the Fw-190A?

Beautifully cowled an compact, could be a post war jigger.


Mav

Actually it was not really all that 'compact' an engine, the installation had a lot to do with the appearance of compactness.

BMW 801; 79" long, 51" diameter, 2,325 lbs.

R-2800 as mounted in P-47D; 75.72" long, 52.5" diameter, 2,265 lbs.

Hercules; 52" diameter (55" as power egg-including cowling), I've been so far unable to locate length data, 1,845 lbs.

From a horsepower standpoint the 801 and Hercules are in the same class, but the 801 is a lot heavier and of a larger displacement: 41.8 liters vs. 38.7 liters.

Cheers, Jon

Damn German engineering!  Making something that big look so small!    

[jcf]

Forget french engines - radial 14M was 700hp, 14N of the Bloch 174 was 1100 hp only. So you'll actually LOSE power
Well, there was the 14R but this was post WWII, rated at 1580 hp, and this one,too, was "a piece of junk"

I like the idea of As-82 engines    Reverse engeniered Mossies ? 

ASh-82s could be a goer, however, they are just as massive as a BMW 801. Again a brilliant job of installation makes them appear smaller.

'Reverse engineer' what exactly? The Russians made wide use of wood and wood-phenolic composite sheeting in their aircraft construction. In terms of general aerodynamic design and theory they were on a par with the other combatants.

Also they had their own 'Mossie', the Pe-2.


Anyhow, a shpon aircraft in the general shape of the Mosquito powered by ASh-82s would be cool.

Cheers, Jon

[upnorth]

Forget french engines - radial 14M was 700hp, 14N of the Bloch 174 was 1100 hp only. So you'll actually LOSE power
Well, there was the 14R but this was post WWII, rated at 1580 hp, and this one,too, was "a piece of junk"

I like the idea of As-82 engines    Reverse engeniered Mossies ? 

ASh-82s could be a goer, however, they are just as massive as a BMW 801. Again a brilliant job of installation makes them appear smaller.

'Reverse engineer' what exactly? The Russians made wide use of wood and wood-phenolic composite sheeting in their aircraft construction. In terms of general aerodynamic design and theory they were on a par with the other combatants.

Also they had their own 'Mossie', the Pe-2.


Anyhow, a shpon aircraft in the general shape of the Mosquito powered by ASh-82s would be cool.

Cheers, Jon

Well, I wasn't thinking reverse engineered Mosquito so much as just a plain old licensed assembly line.

However, I had forgotten about the Russian's own Mossie (Pe-2) so I won't chase that premise further.

Based on whats said here and what I got from Jon in a PM (Thanks by the way Jon) I think I'll not pursue a Francophile Mossie either.

The ASh-82 it is for me (I just picked up an Airfix 1/72 Mossie today) Kopro LA-5 and LA-7 kits can be had for next to nothing around these parts so the engines will be real easy to get.

I think my renewed premise might be closer to the Calquin, that of a nation that could get the airframe but had to look elsewhere for the engines.

Now, what nations could concievably find themselves in such a position and obtain Russian engines for the Mossie?...

[jcf]

Would that Finnish Mossie of fine Baltic Birch ply be in a lovely natural blond finish?

There's a 'what-if?' for ya, what-if Alvar Aalto had designed aircraft?


Cheers, Jon

[Daryl J.]

If comfortable with chopping, channeling, smoothing and the like, one could reprofile the tailplane to be shorter and more round ie He-70-ish.   Watts twin blade props, fewer canopy braces, and perhaps a tail skid instead of a tyre.    Reprofiling the engine nacelles to match the prototype would be very trick, but also very tricky to accomplish.

When whiffing an aircraft, somehow a visual change that's noticeable seems to be a key point in success, even if somewhat subtle.  

Hopefully, the above-mentioned tricks are doable in part at least.  

What a great idea you have!      




Daryl J.

[Radish]

As well as the twin-blader props, add an open cockpit and spatted u/c.
Why not add a rear gunner?

I like this idea.

I have a couple of 1/48th Airfix Mossies too.
Can you imagine the JMNs if you did the necessary to a 1/24th Heritage kit?

Colour scheme?
Earth/Green uppers with white/black undersurfaces?

Silver dope, pre-war squadron markings?

This gets better and better!!  

[Radish]

Hey....cut off the engine nacelle fronts and add some "open" uncowled radial engines courtesy of Aeroclub? Lots of opportunity for oil spils, spraying it around, and weathering!  

[Daryl J.]

Would an open cockpit have twin fairings behind the  crew's heads?  The FB has a flat windscreen yes?   If so, that would make an open cockpit variant easier for a modeler to construct.


If the tail height is reduced, one could introduce some sort of ventral strake in front of the tail skid to enhance surface area.......

Edit:  Do Aeroclub make early exhausts for the Hurricane?   Or, does anyone make the exhausts where the six holes just dump out the sides individually immediately at the aircraft's skin?   That may be a wanted detail....perhaps.

Another penny worth,
Daryl J.

[GTX]

Another change is that it could have retained the turret proposed for the Mosquito - see below for mockups:




Regards,

Greg

[Radish]

turret. Cool.

I prefer a full "retro" though, so it'll be silver dope, A-type roundels, open canopy, no u/c doors and somehow I'll fashion "spats" onto the u/c. Thinking a thin piece of card "curved" around the existing u/c with a LOT of filler to merge it into the nacelle.
All rigged too.....gorra have rigging.
Different fin/rudder....V-tail?

Whooo-hoooooo.......I'm excited by this.

Aeroclub do various engines/propellers in 1/72nd and 1/48th.

Just ordered a pair of Gladiator twin-bladers from Hannants.

[Mossie]

Thanks guys, I'm purely thinking of an early war version rather than going back, so it'd retain the retractable undercarriage & probably three blade props & definately be finished in green/earth, probably night white undesides although skys a possibility.  The turret is nice addition & I only vaugely remember reading about it, thanks for that Greg.  If the Mossie had acquired the turret, would it have been the wonderplane it became?  It seems that it would have watered down DH's original intention, but it wouldn't have been the only time that doctrine had got in the way of a great design.

Does anyone have any more pics of the prototype?  I can only find the odd few on the web, so I'm really going to have to find some good reference books on the Mossie, especially since it's my namesake!

[Leigh]

With night/white undersides, two bladed props would match the Spitfires of the day and give it just that "different enough" look.

[GTX]

If the Mossie had acquired the turret, would it have been the wonderplane it became?

From what I've read, de Havilland didn't want the turret, but the Ministry wanted it.  The turret apparently cut speed by around 20mph.

Does anyone have any more pics of the prototype?

I have a few, but I think they're all B&W - is that ok?  Are there any specific shots/views you are after?

Regards,

Greg

[Mossie]

Black & whites great Greg, apart from a couple the only pics I can find are ones of the prototype in it's later PR guise.  Nothing specific I'm after, just general shots of shape & what have you to see what kind of work would be required to backdate a Mossie kit.

These are the only photo's I've found on the net:


Not sure if this the prototype, looks like a standard NFII to me


Nice detail shot of a complex circular airbrake setup