Heavy Bombers in Isreali service

[Sisko]

I was recently flipping though a book when I saw a picture of a B17 in Israeli markings and I got thinking.

What other WWII bombers could have been begged borrowed or stolen to service the early days of the IAF?

Maybe some ex-Luftwaffe types He111 or He177's maybe re-engined.

Some ex-USAAF types B-25 or 26's.

Discuss.

[Son of Damian]

IIRC they only acquired two B-17s, but considering how well the procurred other aircraft more B-17s, some B-24s, maybe some lancasters, possible even Lincolns later (hey the Argies bought some).

Though if the Israelis got more heavy bombers maybe the Egyptians would have tried to acquire some of there own. Maybe they would have bought some Piaggio P.108Bs along with there Macchi Mc.205's.

[XV107]

That's an interesting question.

In the 'begged/stolen/acquired by interesting means' category, I'd guess that you'd see A-20s, B-25s and perhaps the odd A-26, since there were quite a number still around (obviously so with the A-26) that had been deemed surplus to requirements but which had escaped the scrapman's torch; likewise, the B-24 is a possibility.

I can't see Lancasters making their way to Israel, though, since the British public was rather ill-disposed towards the Israelis at the time of the foundation of the state. However, how about the French passing on some Ju-88s; they did, after all, have a few of those post-war. Also, the Ju-52 might be pressed into use as a bomber.

Post-1956 might be interesting as well. What if the British government (or more accurately the Foreign Office) decided that despite the long-standing relationship with Arab nations, the threat posed by Egypt was such that they had to support Israel in some way? I fancy the prospect of a Canberra B(I)8 in IDF markings... I think we've discussed the propsect of the Buccaneer as an Israeli type before  (and of course, we mustn't forget how the Israeli order for 75 TSR2s saved the whole programme...   )

[Sisko]

That's an interesting question.

In the 'begged/stolen/acquired by interesting means' category, I'd guess that you'd see A-20s, B-25s and perhaps the odd A-26, since there were quite a number still around (obviously so with the A-26) that had been deemed surplus to requirements but which had escaped the scrapman's torch; likewise, the B-24 is a possibility.

I can't see Lancasters making their way to Israel, though, since the British public was rather ill-disposed towards the Israelis at the time of the foundation of the state. However, how about the French passing on some Ju-88s; they did, after all, have a few of those post-war. Also, the Ju-52 might be pressed into use as a bomber.

Post-1956 might be interesting as well. What if the British government (or more accurately the Foreign Office) decided that despite the long-standing relationship with Arab nations, the threat posed by Egypt was such that they had to support Israel in some way? I fancy the prospect of a Canberra B(I)8 in IDF markings... I think we've discussed the propsect of the Buccaneer as an Israeli type before  (and of course, we mustn't forget how the Israeli order for 75 TSR2s saved the whole programme...   )

That was my thought.

There was a lot of surplus air frames after the war and ex-german stuff in Isreali markings would look very cool.

[Jennings]

Though if the Israelis got more heavy bombers maybe the Egyptians would have tried to acquire some of there own.

Uh, you're aware that the REAF flew Lancasters, right?  Not for long, and probably not very well, but they did have them.  I know, because I did decals for them on the Xtradecal sheet I did for the Hasegawa kit.

They were replaced by Il-28s..

J

[Matt Wiser]

B-24s, B-25s, A-20s are all good possiblities. Once the B-29 leaves USAF service, maybe. A big maybe. The A/B-26 Invader is also a good candidate, though not a heavy.  

[Chap]

Great topic!

Here's a link for the Egyptian Lancasters. On the Israeli side, Czechoslavakia was going to sell them a Ju-290 rebuilt from various wrecks however, the deal fell through. Spain could have sold them CASA C-2111B's (He-111) and CASA 352's (Ju-52). Also anything coming out of South America would have been a possibility, the C-46's they operated came out of Brazil, I believe.

~Steve

[Jennings]

Here's what the REAF Lanc *actually* looked like, based on photos, not someone's imagination.  

[Sisko]

What about something like a wellington or sterling.

Maybe some of them could have been purchased post war for conversion as a civilian aircraft only then to be spirited away to Isreal.

So many possibilities.

[Son of Damian]

I can't see Lancasters making their way to Israel, though, since the British public was rather ill-disposed towards the Israelis at the time of the foundation of the state

Maybe some of them could have been purchased post war for conversion as a civilian aircraft only then to be spirited away to Isreal.

I didn't figure that they would be bought directly from the British Government by the Israelis, I figure that they would have been bought clandestinely. A go between buys several surplus lancasters mentioning something about starting an airline. The planes are shipped to America and then onto Israel where they are put into service.

Uh, you're aware that the REAF flew Lancasters, right? Not for long, and probably not very well, but they did have them. I know, because I did decals for them on the Xtradecal sheet I did for the Hasegawa kit.

I am now. I never new Egypt had Lancasters, I new they had some Halifaxes and other British aircraft such as Meteors and Vampires before turning to the Soviets for aircraft but not Lancasters.

Ok so the Egyptians all ready had heavy bombers, hmmm...... Syria bought Fiat G.55's and if her neighbors were buying heavy bombers maybe she would have as well, hmmm..... a Syrian Piaggio P.108B, that would be really sweet!!! B)  B) I all ready have Special Hobby's P.108 kit that demands to be whiffed, I'll put this one on my to do list

[anthonyp]

While not a WWII plane, I've got plans for an AJ/A-2 Savage for Israeli use.

[Archibald]

He-274!  ^_^
Two of these planes were build in France.
They were used as motherships (for SO-4000 flying mockups for example)  until the early 50's !
Now, whatif France produced this aircraft (with piston engines and later turboprops ?) and sold some of them to Israel ?
Grognards, they need grognards ! And Mirage IV (A or the heavier B variant)

B-47 stratojets (after all, Egypt had Tu-16s)
V-bombers  (victors in israeli camo   )

Avro 730 !!!

[Gervasius]

Hustlers! B-58s in IDF/AF service, hitting Syrian airfields in 1973!

Academy B-58 - check
IDF/AF decals - check

hmmm...

Marko

[Radish]

Check the ACIG site and there's stuff on the Egyptian Halifaxes as well as Stirlings. They had Lancasters of course.

Israeli bombers?

The A-20 sounds a lovely idea, as does the B-25 Mitchell and B-26 Marauder.
The Marauder was pretty surplus to requirements after WW2, although the RAF had a squadron in service until as late as '47 in Greece.

The B-26 Invader sounds a fantastic idea and it must have been an aircraft high on the Israeli "wants" list.

The Mosquito, of course, was already in Israeli service and the Canberra would look rather nice......or a more available (Italeri 1/72nd) B-57??

But Hustler???
WOWEEEEEEE      

In the GREATER ISRAEL SCENARIO, which includes Israel's borders extending as far as the western borders of Egypt and east to include Saudi, etc., what about B-52s??
The B-2???  

[nev]

I can't see Lancasters making their way to Israel, though, since the British public was rather ill-disposed towards the Israelis at the time of the foundation of the state.

If however Churchill somehow won the '45 election.......He was pro-Zionist from the mid 20s.  Around that time he was an MP somewhere round Manchester IIRC, with its large Jewish community and was pally with one of the leading Zionists of the time.

On the Israeli side, Czechoslavakia was going to sell them a Ju-290 rebuilt from various wrecks however, the deal fell through

Oooh, now there's an excuse to buy the Revell kit!!  

My favourite Isreali "acquisition" was their Beaufighters.  Bought by a Jewish businessmen, ostensibly for use in a film, they disappeared until they re-appeared sometime later in Israel  


In other news, keep your eyes peeled for an Israeli Avenger, coming soon to a GB near you