avatar_Radish

South American Rumblings

Started by Radish, June 18, 2006, 10:09:47 AM

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Radish

I can only reasonably build a few Fokkers and Camels, SE5s for Europe before they look samey.
So....let's introduce instability (ha, ha!!) into South and Middle America.

Mexico had Bristol Fighters (I had fun building the Airfix thingy in silver plastic when it first came out....Latin instructions!) and so did Peru.
There were lots of others of course....

What if Guatamala had Camel variants?
What if Hondurus had Fokker D.VIIs? or Nicaragua??

What d'ya think?
Once you've visited the land of the Loonies, a return is never far away.....

Still His (or Her) Majesty, Queen Caroline of the Midlands, Resident Drag Queen

dragon

Why not?  I know of at least one Latin American born pilot who actively flew the Fokker D. VII during WWI while flying for Von Richtoffen and Ernst Udet.

However since the Germans lost during WWI, most of the Latin American nations got their Air Forces started with non-German designs (Stearmans, Caudrons, Fiats).
"As long as people are going to call you a lunatic anyway, why not get the benefits of it?  It liberates you from convention."- from the novel WICKED by Gregory Maguire.
  
"I must really be crazy to be in a looney bin like this" - Jack Nicholson in the movie ONE FLEW OVER THE CUCKOO'S NEST

NARSES2

Quote

Mexico had Bristol Fighters (I had fun building the Airfix thingy in silver plastic when it first came out....Latin instructions!) and so did Peru.
There were lots of others of course....
I knew you were "strange" Rad but to have "fun" with that old thing  :P

And no the instructions wern't in Latin but in a very old, nowadays seldom seen form of English called "Grammar all present and correct"  ;)

As an idea I think it's great, the only problem is you start wiffing a S American subject and find out it's a real one. Information on S American AF's is hard to come by in the UK.

However it all fits in with the 1930's Cold War scenario as you can see the US & European Powers vying with each other to sell their latest goodies. I've done some Mexican Alternatives and one Colombian set around 1940.

Chris
Do not condemn the judgement of another because it differs from your own. You may both be wrong.

Radish

But they won't have operated "box-tailed" Camels, or V-tail fokkers, or Triplanes, etc..
Fiat CR32.....yes, I reckon RAF might be up for a few, as might Belgium, Finland, and the Bulgarians.....if in doubt, give the Bulgarians a few. :lol:  
Once you've visited the land of the Loonies, a return is never far away.....

Still His (or Her) Majesty, Queen Caroline of the Midlands, Resident Drag Queen

jcf

Introduce instability into the region in the twenties and thirties? No need, it was unstable.
One of the elements that drove the US back into Nicaragua in 1927...only two years after they had pulled out of pretty much direct control, was the left-leaning Mexican governments's support, with arms and rhetoric, of the Liberal side in the civil war between the Liberals and Conservatives that had broken out soon after the US left.
The war was settled by May of 1927, except for one commander who refused to disarm...Augusto Sandino. The US Marines fought the Sandinistas until 1933 with little real result, even with the use of airpower...starting with DH-4s and later moving to Vought Corsairs and Curtiss Falcons.


HONDURAS
The article in the link mentions a near war between Guatemala and Honduras caused by competing fruit companies.

A Chiquita bomber anyone? :party:

Also German coffee companies had much power and influence in Guatemala.

Private air forces supporting puppet government troops might be the way to go...it would provide the requisit financing for aircraft and pilots.

Of course you'd have to find a way to not have the US involved in the area, because in real history the US was THE major power player and kept full scale conflicts from erupting.

BTW,the words  Liberal and Conservative in the context of 19th and early 20th century Central American politics have next to nothing to do with modern "popular" definitions of the terms.

Cheers, Jon  

NARSES2

QuoteOf course you'd have to find a way to not have the US involved in the area, because in real history the US was THE major power player and kept full scale conflicts from erupting.

Cheers, Jon
Very true of "Central America" John, but in S America the intervention was more "political/Financial" then "militaristic" ? Must admit I know very little about the history of S America during the last century, have read some on the Wars of Liberation and what followed. Trying to get readable primers on S American history in English is difficult in the UK. Some good articles in "Mllitary History" occasisionally but whish Osprey would produce one of their Essential History books on some of the S American conflicts of the 19th C

Chris
Do not condemn the judgement of another because it differs from your own. You may both be wrong.

jcf

Quote
QuoteOf course you'd have to find a way to not have the US involved in the area, because in real history the US was THE major power player and kept full scale conflicts from erupting.

Cheers, Jon
Very true of "Central America" John, but in S America the intervention was more "political/Financial" then "militaristic" ? Must admit I know very little about the history of S America during the last century, have read some on the Wars of Liberation and what followed. Trying to get readable primers on S American history in English is difficult in the UK. Some good articles in "Mllitary History" occasisionally but whish Osprey would produce one of their Essential History books on some of the S American conflicts of the 19th C

Chris
Hi Chris,
I was only speaking to the Central American issues and while the US was directly involved to some extent in South American politics, particularly on the Pacific coast...most of the unrest was internal in the 20s and 30s.

But here's a What-if? for ya...what if the current Neo-Bolivarist movement and the dream of recreating and then expanding Gran-Columbia had sprung onto the scene in the 1920s instead of now? First you have the War of Re-Unification and then possible wars against Brazil and other states.

Cheers, Jon

NARSES2

QuoteHi Chris,
I was only speaking to the Central American issues and while the US was directly involved to some extent in South American politics, particularly on the Pacific coast...most of the unrest was internal in the 20s and 30s.

But here's a What-if? for ya...what if the current Neo-Bolivarist movement and the dream of recreating and then expanding Gran-Columbia had sprung onto the scene in the 1920s instead of now? First you have the War of Re-Unification and then possible wars against Brazil and other states.

Cheers, Jon
I realised you were refering to Central America John (apologies if I didn't make that clear)

As for your What If scenario for the 20's I have a similar scenario for the late 30's stemming initially from a Mexico/Colombia alliance, which then see's all sorts of alliances formed to "right old wrongs". Still very much in draft form and I have to write the second part of my article on it for the SIG Newsletter

Chris

Do not condemn the judgement of another because it differs from your own. You may both be wrong.

Radish

Germany had to give up its Fokker D.VIIs as part of the Versailles Treaty.
What If? (and yes, I know that some were shipped to Poland, Ukraine etc., and the Allies had a stash....especially the US,  as did the Dutch) the Allies had sold them on?
Say to South America?
The US taking even more and re-exporting them.

Bolivia, Argentina, Columbia, El Salvador, Guatamala, Chile, etc..??
Ex-German/Austrian AF pilots emigrate??
Really FANCY markings like in the Jastas, but with silver wings/golden wings?
South American insignia??

It's just that I've a lot of Fokkers and liable to get more.

An interesting variety might be a D.VII as a sesquiplane or even dare I say it, "Parasol Winged" fighter?
There was also a twin-seat variety, quite rare though.

What about Camels, SE5as?? etc..
SPADS, of course, and Nieuports :P

Can you imagine, among all those lovely bright pretty colours, a rather different El Salvador aircraft in full 4-colour camouflage (like the Corsairs they had) with yellow identification bands :P  :P  :P
Once you've visited the land of the Loonies, a return is never far away.....

Still His (or Her) Majesty, Queen Caroline of the Midlands, Resident Drag Queen

NARSES2

QuoteAn interesting variety might be a D.VII as a sesquiplane or even dare I say it, "Parasol Winged" fighter?


Now there's an idea - Fokker D.VII fusalage with the D.VIII's wing ?

In the Eduard D.VIII you get two complete wings, one normal and one moulded to show the plywood wood of the real thing. So cheap Revel D.VII and away we go ?

Chris
Do not condemn the judgement of another because it differs from your own. You may both be wrong.

Radish

Thinking.....
Camels and SE5As, etc., in German-type colours...ie, BRIGHT
while...
Fokker D.VIIs in camo colours but with bright trim.

Could be fun....no WILL be fun. :lol:  
Once you've visited the land of the Loonies, a return is never far away.....

Still His (or Her) Majesty, Queen Caroline of the Midlands, Resident Drag Queen