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SAC Keeps the Hustler

Started by Spino, August 24, 2025, 07:47:35 AM

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Weaver

Quote from: jcf on November 01, 2025, 12:19:44 PMA J58 powered B-58 would be silly as it would have an even shorter range than the four
J79 engined regular B-58.
🤣

Hence why the fuselage stretch and the redundant third cockpit position were filled with extra tankage on the interceptor version.

I haven't seen detail on the B-58C bomber version, but I'd hazard a guess it could carry big drop tanks under the outer wings, so maybe a subsonic cruise followed by a supersonic dash.

Also, I'd be amazed if the J-58s used in the Hustler were exactly the same as the ones in the Blackbird. More likely they'd be a heavily modified version.
"Things need not have happened to be true. Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."
 - Sandman: A Midsummer Night's Dream, by Neil Gaiman

"I dunno, I'm making this up as I go."
 - Indiana Jones

jcf

Quote from: kerick on November 01, 2025, 09:50:40 PMThere was something I read about the last time B-52s had major upgrades and the miles of wire pulled out of each one. Probably boosted fuel economy with all the saved weight too.
It was an extensive rewire, which happens every time a major upgrade is done on an aircraft. The old is removed and replaced with new. All large aircraft contain miles of wire and it's doubtful that it made much difference in terms of weight or performance.
The engine swap process that's now underway, the first airframe has been disassembled and trucked to the mod-centre and will serve as the prototype for the conversion process, is much more than an engine "swap". They'll be using it to develop and define the process, which includes a rewire, systems replacement/upgrades and any necessary structural mods. The work is going to be time consuming on both the engineering and modification sides of the program. It's not going to be quick, especially on the first one.
Then there will all of the updating
and redo of the manuals, systems schematics, wire diagrams, hydraulic system diagrams etc., will need to be heavily revised to incorporate all of the changes etc. Then of course there's the material and parts lists for the work and the versions that will go into the manuals. It's going to be a huge amount of work just on the paperwork side.
The old beasts weren't plug 'n play and to a large extent neither are
the ones of today.

steelpillow

#17
Don't know how much a stickler you are for aerodynamic detail but, like all the operational Convair deltas and the Mirage III, the Hustler had a pronounced conical camber or droop to the leading edge. Apex at the root, fattest at the tip. On the Hustler, this pretty much countered the tightening of the leading edge radius outboard as the aerofoil shrank, approximating to a constant upper leading-edge depth, visible in the pic below. The underside is more subtly sculpted. If you find a shot of the trailing edge tip, you can see more clearly how it turns down to form the end of the cone.
This lowered its stalling speed and was critical to the handling at high AoA, allowing slower takeoff and landing speeds, and a higher ceiling. Even so, takeoff at full load was marginal and a highly skilled operation. Given your bigger, and presumably heavier, turbofans, some extra wing area is called for. Harking back to the Avro Vulcan B Mk 2's leading-edge glove and the lessons of the Saab Draken's double-delta, maybe a triangular leading-edge fillet from mid-span to forward of the existing tip would be about right? Some modest camber might be appropriate, or even leading-edge flaps as on the Mirage 2000.

Cheers.

Pellson

Quote from: steelpillow on November 02, 2025, 09:30:25 PMDon't know how much a stickler you are for aerodynamic detail but, like all the operational Convair deltas and the Mirage III, the Hustler had a pronounced conical camber or droop to the leading edge. Apex at the root, fattest at the tip. On the Hustler, this pretty much countered the tightening of the leading edge radius outboard as the aerofoil shrank, approximating to a constant upper leading-edge depth, visible in the pic below. The underside is more subtly sculpted. If you find a shot of the trailing edge tip, you can see more clearly how it turns down to form the end of the cone.
This lowered its stalling speed and was critical to the handling at high AoA, allowing slower takeoff and landing speeds, and a higher ceiling.

This was actually introduced mid-production in the F-102 production run, as the Case XX wing, in contrast to the earlier Case X wing. Both wing tips can be seen in this photograph, the nearest being an XX wheereas no 2 is an X etc. Older F-102's were however never rebuilt.

Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition!

steelpillow

Quote from: Pellson on November 03, 2025, 04:57:20 AMThis was actually introduced mid-production in the F-102 production run, as the Case XX wing, in contrast to the earlier Case X wing.
Was introduced on the first YF-102A, after problems with the original YF-102. The initial Case X had modest conical camber, the later Case XX more, and the F-106 and B-58 more still.
(By the way, these are "Case Ten" and "Case Twenty" in Roman numerals, not grades of alcohol strength!)
Cheers.