BAe/Boeing GR.5 / AV-8B wings-span 'What If' question????

[GTX]

I have the skyhook drawing in a couple of my books.

Regards,

Greg

[MAD]

Thanks Greg
To be completely honest - if you know where to find them, it will more than likely be quicker 

M.A.D

[MAD]

G'day Mark (Jonesthetank)
Sorry it's taken me so long to respond to your efforts 

Hey great work...........
My only problem I have with your trailer design is the set of tri-wheel arrangement in the middle of the trailer!
I'm assuming this is there to support the weight of the Harrier itself?
I'm thinking if a modern army trailer like the M747 design can support a 70t MBT – it should be able to support a Harrier.
I am thinking (if possible) for a low-loader trailer arrangement (you know the ones you see carrying heavy excavation machines about on roads!) This will make for a lower design, which should equate to safer and easier platform for the Harrier pilot.

Also heading away from this idea, I have much warmed to the guys idea of a 'road-train-type arrangement, which supports ground-based (as opposed to truck-based Harrier operations!). This arrangement seems much more economical, realistic and workable, than my original scheme!
As suggested by Rickshaw –

'Each Harrier would be assigned three road trains.   Two for operations and one for logistics'.

+

'The logistics road train would carry sufficient fuel and ammunition for 48 hours operation'.

I'm thinking along the lines of a 'B Triple' configuration (see attachment!)
woops for some reasons I can't do 'additional options' and post pics 

M.A.D

[Hobbes]

You can't upload pictures directly to the forum anymore, use Photobucket etc. instead.

I agree, a Harrier is a light load for a lorry; no need for many axles. A low-loader is a good idea, the Harrier is 3.6 m high, so you need a low-loader to be able to pass under bridges. The standard bridge height in the Netherlands is 4.2 m.

You could use a special-purpose lowloader with an open bed (a.k.a. vessel floor), i.e. a beam on each side to support the load, and an opening in the middle. Then add a split at the front or rear of the bed:



Add a hydraulic cradle to the beams to secure the Harrier for transport.

Then the Harrier can be pushed/pulled between the beams, secured, then the trailer can be assembled again and driven.

[Hobbes]

I'm warming up to this idea, the problem is that it'll be hard to build: the only scales that work are 1:24 (which would be huge) and 1:48/1:50 (there are 1:50 trucks but they are all metal, so a bit harder to modify). In other scales you can't get both airplane and trucks. 

[MAD]

G'day Hobbes
Thank you for your interest and contribution 

I'm warming up to this idea

I welcome your enthusiasm and look forward to what you come up with!
The design of low-loader trailer you have posted is a fantastic design (more elaborate and flexible that the M747 military low-loader trailer I was looking at!
I see the upper-forward platform section of this design being utilized for the likes of a axillary power unit (APU) for starting the Harrier and other basic support equipment!
Also its overall width ability of 7.600m (if I read it right?) would take care of much of the wing-folding issue we were original concerned about (as shown by GTX's estimate of 4.5m from outer landing gear) - much easier to modify the wings to fold outside of the wing landing gear!!

P.S could you please take into consideration the well conceived idea of the

'three road trains. Two for operations and one for logistics'

designs!

M.A.D
   

[Hobbes]

This particular trailer can be adjusted between 2.75 and 3.75 m width; the measurements shown in the drawing are a bit odd. There are wider vessel bed trailers, but the question then becomes how wide the load can get before it becomes a major obstruction to traffic. A single traffic lane is 2.5-3.5 m wide; for trucks wider than 2.5 m you need an outsize load permit. Go over 3.5 m and you get into trouble when the road is only one lane or has a central divider: the road signs etc. get in the way and have to be removed. Better to design the transport so that it can be done with minimal hassle.

About the forward platform section; I was thinking that you'd want to be able to service the Harrier on the move, or at least refuel and add the other fluids and gases.

I'll see if I can find a Harrier 3-view drawing to play with.

[rickshaw]

I would be rather concerned about the ground clearance.   The places where MAD is suggested they would be used aren't overly equipped with nice, smooth tarmac roads.   Then, of course, most bush tracks aren't all that wide either...

[Hobbes]

You could use a trailer with this type of suspension:



This example is from Nooteboom, and has 60 cm of axle articulation. If you use a flatbed trailer as in jonesthetank's picture, you get even more ground clearance but at the expense of extra height, which would require either retracting the Harrier's wheels or hinging the tailplane.

[rickshaw]

Interesting.  However still doesn't address the problems of bellying when going over even shallow ridges.

[kitnut617]

Interesting.  However still doesn't address the problems of bellying when going over even shallow ridges.

Not if you use a rig like this one ---  A place I worked at a few years ago used to have rigs like this come and go from the yard quite often, we shipped out huge sections of a plant that were pre-built and assembled in our yard then trucked out to site as modules. All the wheels were steerable on the trailers that came to the yard, they were also self-leveling.



Actually, the trailers that came to the yard looked more like this one below.

[Ed S]

I'm warming up to this idea, the problem is that it'll be hard to build: the only scales that work are 1:24 (which would be huge) and 1:48/1:50 (there are 1:50 trucks but they are all metal, so a bit harder to modify). In other scales you can't get both airplane and trucks. 

Hobbes,

Check out the "O" gauge model railroad vehicles.  They are 1/48 scale and you might find a truck that would work and of course, there are Harriers available in that scale.

Ed

[Hobbes]

Here is a Harrier front view with some measurements to give a sense of scale.



As you see, you'll need a wing fold quite close to the fuselage to get the width down to a reasonable size.
As an alternative, would it be possible to remove the wing altogether? ISTR that the wing is removed to get access to the engine, so perhaps this can be done in a reasonable time frame.

I think it would be wise to put the Harrier in a cradle, to minimise the total height and to provide more stable support than the Harrier's bicycle undercarriage.



This means you need a crane to place the Harrier on the trailer.

Maybe something like this, to combine the crane with the Harrier trailer:

[Weaver]

You can, of course, get military trucks and Harriers in 1/72nd scale, with tank transporters being most interesting. You can also get the old Keilcraft civilian trucks, both in their original boxings and in the Knightwing re-issues. Note that they also do flatbeds:

http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,31216.0.html

http://www.knightwing.co.uk/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?product=OO-HO_Road_Transport_Kits&cart_id=1295576924.985