What if

GROUP BUILDS => The Captured G.B. => Topic started by: PR19_Kit on November 01, 2020, 07:01:30 am

Title: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti SM-77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on November 01, 2020, 07:01:30 am
Here's the kick-off pic for my build, my ONLY build I expect, for this GB.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/8669/tnR7AB.jpg)

Patently obviously it's a Delta SM.55 paired with a Revell Lancaster, actually two of the latter as I'll need a few extra bits and bobs from another Lanc kit, and I had a pair of Revell ones in The Loft.
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: tigercat on November 01, 2020, 07:35:57 am
This should be interesting
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: Old Wombat on November 01, 2020, 08:24:57 am
Hmm, I have that Lancaster boxing, only mine has a pair of Airfix Typhoons co-located with it. ;)
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: kitbasher on November 01, 2020, 10:27:44 am
What do plan to do with the Lancaster leftovers, Kit?
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: ericr on November 01, 2020, 11:40:36 am
 :o :thumbsup: ;D
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on November 01, 2020, 11:50:20 am

What do plan to do with the Lancaster leftovers, Kit?


Good question Dave. I'll have most of both fuselages left and one complete wing/engine setup.

Maybe a VERY long Lancaster?  ;D
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: tigercat on November 01, 2020, 01:27:25 pm
Sort of  halfway between Lancaster and Lincoln . An Avro  Clifton
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: Leading Observer on November 01, 2020, 02:51:20 pm

What do plan to do with the Lancaster leftovers, Kit?


Good question Dave. I'll have most of both fuselages left and one complete wing/engine setup.

Maybe a VERY long Lancaster?  ;D

Tophe?
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on November 01, 2020, 03:37:11 pm
Erm, two fuselages and only one wing?  ;)

I don't think so. :(
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: McColm on November 01, 2020, 09:55:54 pm
Erm, two fuselages and only one wing?  ;)

I don't think so. :(
One above and one below the wings!
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: zenrat on November 02, 2020, 02:04:02 am
Erm, two fuselages and only one wing?  ;)

I don't think so. :(
One above and one below the wings!

Wing.  Singular.
Are we looking at three push/pull double Merlin engine nacelles Kit?
I do like the sound of this.
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on November 02, 2020, 03:49:51 am

Are we looking at three push/pull double Merlin engine nacelles Kit?
I do like the sound of this.


Maybe, it depends how well my strut manufacturing goes really.

Certainly there'll be a minimum of two Merlins, and with the HUGE wings it's going to need LOTS more power.  ;D
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: zenrat on November 02, 2020, 03:58:05 am
Consider solid mounting towers.  That way aircrew could climb up inside them to make in flight adjustments.
And with two Lancs you'll have six turrets to sprinkle over it...
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on November 02, 2020, 04:01:44 am
That's a good idea Fred, thanks. MUCH more sensible with 2000 hp worth of Merlins stacked on top!

And with two hulls to defend, that's EXACTLY the reason why I've got two Lanc kits as donors.  ;)

One of the Lancs already donated its mid-upper turret to my time warp Eagle B1 some time ago though.
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: NARSES2 on November 02, 2020, 06:38:43 am
This should be interesting

Slight understatement I think  ;) ;D
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: loupgarou on November 02, 2020, 08:11:28 am
I cannot imagine how those parts could go together. :o
Very curious,waiting  for developments.
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on November 02, 2020, 09:11:58 am
Actually the outer Lancaster wings are EXACTLY the same thickness and chord as the S.55's inner wing section. Amazing really, and it surprised me when I tried it a few weeks ago.

And it makes for a SERIOUSLY large span too. :thumbsup: ;D
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: joncarrfarrelly on November 02, 2020, 09:13:58 am
The two Fiat-engined Italian Dornier Do X had the engine nacelles mounted on pylons.

(https://i2.wp.com/www.fromtheskies.it/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/aeroblub_como_dornier-dox-at-como-spb.jpg?ssl=1)

When the first Do X was originally engined with Jupiter radials, they were also mounted on pylons.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-z5m_CNP2XhY/VGsqhURGcyI/AAAAAAAACQI/-imPyHCN244/s1600/Siemens_Jupiter_Test_Setup_at_Altenrhein.jpg)
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on November 02, 2020, 09:17:48 am
Oh yes, I do like the look of that setup.  :thumbsup:

Thanks for the pointer Jon.

Hm, a section of tailplane would work quite well for the pylon, maybe thickened a bit for crew access as Fred suggested?
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: joncarrfarrelly on November 02, 2020, 09:28:20 am
Your notion sounds a bit like a super S.66.  ;D

(http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/cw1/s66/s66-1.gif)

(http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/cw1/s66/s66-3.jpg)
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on November 02, 2020, 09:33:49 am
It is, which is why it's called an S.77...............  ;)
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: joncarrfarrelly on November 02, 2020, 10:21:16 am
 :thumbsup:

The radiators for the Fiat A.22 engines were in the leading edge of pylons behind
movable covers. The air intakes (oil cooler and carb air?) were below the fwd
propellers.

(https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/italian-flying-boat-umberto-maddalena-picture-id542936241)
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: Tophe on November 02, 2020, 12:23:57 pm
I'll have most of both fuselages left
Tophe?
Two remaining fuselages/hulls is a good inspiration for what-ifers, yes ;D
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: joncarrfarrelly on November 02, 2020, 12:32:48 pm
The Merlin XX of the Lancaster is only slightly larger (3" longer, 1" wider, 5" taller) than
the Fiat A22-R used on the two Italian Do X, so the nacelle layout of those aircraft is a
good guide for designing your installation.
 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: joncarrfarrelly on November 02, 2020, 12:46:32 pm
Oh yes, I do like the look of that setup.  :thumbsup:

Thanks for the pointer Jon.

Hm, a section of tailplane would work quite well for the pylon, maybe thickened a bit for crew access as Fred suggested?

Both the Jupiter and Fiat pylons had access hatches on the sides, you can see one on the
photo of the Jupiter test installation, and two open doors on the second photo I posted
of R.I. Umberto Maddalena.
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on November 02, 2020, 02:05:48 pm
I like the idea of doors in the sides of the pylons. Something very 'Empire Boat'-ish about that idea somehow.  ;D

I've started on the construction of this monster now, gluing the Lanc wing pairs together and cutting out the Lanc cockpit parts to enhance that of the S77, not that it's that difficult. The stock cockpit of the S55 kit has two vestigial seats and a paired control column that would do credit to a steam powered battleship!  :o

The sprues for the S55 are HUGE, fully 7 mm in dia in many places, and the whole thing makes a Mach2 kit look delicate!

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/552/CCB0ie.jpg)

 Trying to cut out the twin control wheels of the S55 reduced them both to scrap, the sprue gates were larger than the parts themselves, so I decided to use the ones from the two Lanc kits. Having cut them both out I've managed to lose them both to the Carpet Monster  :banghead: but maybe they'll show up later. The Revell Lanc BIII is remarkably well detailed, and must have been the leader of the pack before the current Airfix kit came out. It has two complete Merlins included, and I think I'll probably have one 'on show' in the S77 when it's finished off, it'd be rude not to.  ;D The Revell sprues are much more conventionally sized, but there's a LOT of them!

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/7821/MsizUM.jpg)

This is just a sample, as with the ones of the S55 above, as I've already cut large chunks off the other sprues.

The main centre section of the S55 has had its outer wings sawn off, later to be mated with the Lanc wings of course, and there'll be a little work needed to fair the upper and lower surfaces together, but not that much, they look like they were designed to go together.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: joncarrfarrelly on November 02, 2020, 03:15:01 pm
What was that you were saying about a 'steam battleship'?  :wacko:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/6129/5931139703_14203d201d_b.jpg)
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on November 02, 2020, 03:34:42 pm
That's about what it looks like in model form too! Luckily the Lanc bits make it look much neater and more aeroplane like.....  ;D

Both hulls are glued together now, and bring new meaning to the term 'fit problems'. The lower planing surface of the starboard hull has a HALF INCH gap between it and the upper hull!  :o

I strapped it up with numerous lengths of tape, and it should be OK later on. I've left off the numerous 'clear' portholes as I think they were moulded by Mach2, and I'll use Kristal Kleer, or its equivalent on them. The two larger rectangular hatches  will remain open, and will probably have guns added, if I can find some to suit.

It's going to be a LARGE aeroplane when it's complete, nearly 20" span. Just how I like them.  ;D
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: zenrat on November 03, 2020, 02:04:10 am
When I built my Sky Pirates Kawanishi H6K5 I placed the wing mounting struts with a pylon. 
(https://live.staticflickr.com/4555/38749142912_0e889a006f_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2238ubU)Kawanishi H6K5 WIP 2-12-17 01 (https://flic.kr/p/2238ubU) by Fred Maillardet (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156376527@N06/), on Flickr
I built it by wrapping styrene sheet round a tube, gluing and clamping the rear end with clothes pegs and then cutting it to shape when dry.
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: tigercat on November 03, 2020, 02:24:38 am
https://www.sgtsmess.co.uk/shop/artillery/gn9-qa-oerlikon-20mm-aa-with-pedestal-mount/

How about a 20mm  if not the site does lots of other interesting bits
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on November 03, 2020, 05:59:51 am

I built it by wrapping styrene sheet round a tube, gluing and clamping the rear end with clothes pegs and then cutting it to shape when dry.


That's a neat idea Fred, thanks. I'll give that a try when it comes to engine mounting time.  :thumbsup:


https://www.sgtsmess.co.uk/shop/artillery/gn9-qa-oerlikon-20mm-aa-with-pedestal-mount/

How about a 20mm  if not the site does lots of other interesting bits


Maybe, but they fail to mention which SCALE the 20 mm are! :(
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on November 03, 2020, 07:21:01 am
I checked the two glued up hulls after their overnight setting, and the 1/2" gap hasn't re-appeared as I feared it might. That's STRONG glue, that Revell Contacta.  :thumbsup:

But each hull will be a putty queen for sure, the small gaps are numerous, and the sterns of both hulls are totally different to each other. Mucho filing was called for before they started to even look symmetrical. Sadly, it seems the large hatches on one side of each hull are on the INSIDE of the hulls, which means that using them as gun hatches will be a waste of time. However they could be used to arm the two torpedoes that will he carried under the centre section I guess. maybe I'll cut gun hatches on the outsides too....

I keep forgetting that this is a 1980s repop of a 1973 moulding, and the mould quality is NOTHING like today's kits. Thus I'm having to SAW various parts of the kit off the sprues, and use a hefty file to clean each part up as well.  :o

The cockpit's coming on quite nicely, both pilot's seats and the panel are in place, Revell give you two different pilot's seats in the Lanc kit, so I just used both of them. And there's a rearward facing flight engineer's seat at the back facing an engine controls panel. I've pinched the control wheels from my recently purchased Eduard Sikorsky S-43 for the S77, they're the correct oval shape and should look OK. I'll sort the S-43 wheel problem out later, when I get to build it. The captain's seat is too tall for the canopy at the moment, but I'll chop the top part of it later.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/5684/6Ch2xZ.jpg)

The two hulls aren't glued to the centre section yet, and the centre section is in two halves. The bits are all just placed in position in the pic.
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: tigercat on November 03, 2020, 07:25:17 am
They're 20mm scale for War games which is 1:72

It is a bit of an oversight :(
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on November 03, 2020, 07:28:40 am
That's a very neat casting at that size then.

It's almost worth all the hassle of cutting new gun hatches just to use the cannon!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: Tophe on November 03, 2020, 08:16:20 am
Looking good! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on November 03, 2020, 08:34:53 am
I haven't got as far as the booms yet Tophe.  ;D
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: tigercat on November 03, 2020, 09:44:36 am
https://www.sgtsmess.co.uk/shop/modifications/gm2-six-50-cals/

They also have 50. Cal
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on November 03, 2020, 11:56:50 am
They might work better actually, thanks for the link.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on November 04, 2020, 03:19:37 am
This has to be the silliest looking cockpit I've ever built!

It's like building one on a tea tray, the lower centre section of the S77 being so wide. But it's done now and I can start the difficult stuff of getting the Lanc wings attached to that centre section with a strong enough joint.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/240/LkqxWE.jpg)

The S-43 control wheels can just be seen mounted on the bizarre T-shaped column that the Savoia flying boats used, and the engineers panel can be seen at the rear.

The nice little Merlin engine in the foreground comes with the Revell Lanc kit, and there's TWO of them in each kit, each with eight parts! Handy to know for future builds, and I'll be displaying the S77 with one of them open to view. That is if I can ever figure out to build the engine nacelles. This Revell Lanc kit is one of the most complicated kits I've ever seen, just finding where the bits are on the umpteen sprues is difficult enough, never mind getting them all glued together! Revell's method of allowing the props to rotate isn't all that good to my mind so I'll be making appropriate mods.

Talking about props, the rear engine of the stock S55 kit is a pusher of course, so that means the prop's different to the front one. Which means I'll have to make pusher prop(s) for my S77, and I'm not all sure what to do to the Lanc props to do it! Do I need to twist the blades the other way round, file them to a different section, glue them on back to front, or all of the above? I've looked at the props in the original S55 kit and can't figure out which is the back and which is the front, both sides have the same size 'rod' sticking out of them.  :banghead: :banghead:
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: zenrat on November 04, 2020, 03:47:26 am
I thought I might have a close up of a built nacelle with the engine exposed.  But I don't.  Sorry.
IIRC it isn't possible (easilly - anything is possible if you go to enough trouble) to build the nacelles without the engines inside.

As far as the pusher prop goes you "just" need to mount them backwards (so the blades are the same direction and angle as the front blades) and then tell us in the back story that the rear engines rotated in the opposite direction to the front ones (or they were double ended V24 Merlin developments - Rolls Royce Gandabherunda maybe?).

Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on November 04, 2020, 05:06:46 am
Delving deeply into the Revell instructions, the Merlins are meant to be installed in the #2 and #3 engine nacelles, and if you don't do that the exhausts have nothing to hang on to, and you can't see the Merlins if you don't do all the cutting and trimming that they suggest etc. :(

However, I have a cunning plan to install the exhausts without the engine being in there...............  ;)

Also on the engines front, the S55X has its engines mounted back to back, and with a large amount of upthrust, 11 degrees as I measure it, and the question is, why?

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/8619/k3lCBh.jpg)

The thrustline doesn't go anywhere NEAR the CG or the aerodynamic centre, and the larger, 3 engined, S.66 doesn't have anywhere near the same amount of upthrust. The VAST Dornier DoX, which also has its engines well above the wing and fuselage, has no upthrust at all, so why does the S.55X  need it?

I think my four Merlin engined S.77 may do away with upthrust altogether unless someone comes up with an irrefutable reason why I might need it.

Thanks for the thoughts on the props Fred, perhaps the Merlins they found in the scrap dump at Heliopolis were experimental opposite rotation versions with an extra idler gear in the transmission, like the ones on the starboard engines for a DH Hornet? Then they could use standard camshafts etc.  ;)
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: Old Wombat on November 04, 2020, 05:39:07 am
However, I have a cunning plan to install the exhausts without the engine being in there...............  ;)

Yes, I'm sure you do, Baldric ... I mean, Kit! :angel:


Actually, that shouldn't bee too difficult, I would have thought. Although that'll mean you'll have 2 Merlins without exhaust stubs, however they're quite plentiful in aftermarket resin.
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on November 04, 2020, 01:23:09 pm
All sorts of progress on many fronts on the S77 today. Here's a pic of quite a few areas as they'll look eventually, maybe.....

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/7366/nZXBsA.jpg)

Both Lanc wings have been fettled so they mate (almost...) with the S55 'fuselage' and the dihedral brace that Revell supply has been cut in half and one half used on each wing. It works of a fashion and will work better when they're packed out to size. The cockpit top is now glued in place, but the hulls aren't as yet. There's LOTS of work to do on them before they're added.

I've sorted the engine nacelles, and there'll be four of them, mounted back to back in pairs, and you can see a rough assembly in the foreground. Lots of work to do on them still of course. I have figured out how to get the exhausts to fit on an engine-less nacelle, it's just a case of blanking off the hole where they protrude from and glue the stubs to the blanking plate. I've done one as a test and it works fine, so I'll do the rest later.

The Merlin's mounted in its cradle now, but only after filing flats on the supercharger's sides as otherwise it's too wide for the mounting cradle. :(

'Test Build'? I don't think so.  :banghead:

Lots still to do, but at least the main idea seems to work.

Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: joncarrfarrelly on November 04, 2020, 02:07:26 pm
From the N.A.C.A. Aircraft Circular #35: "Savoia" S.55, Military or Commercial

It will he observed that the engine nacelle is inclined so that the line of thrust of the engines is
about 8 degrees out of the horizontal, and a slight upward null or push is exerted. No doubt this
is done in order to direct the slip stream on to the tail, the engines, necessarily, being fairly high
in this seaplane.


https://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metadc279584/m2/1/high_res_d/19930089827.pdf
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on November 04, 2020, 03:21:23 pm
Ahah, that makes some sort of sense I guess but I'm not sure that anyone else did that, or did they? Thanks for that Jon.  :thumbsup:

The engines on my S77 will be almost in line with the fins, and maybe the tailplane will be higher too, so I may not bother with it.  ;)
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: ericr on November 05, 2020, 12:16:18 am

now that is wings ...  ;)
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on November 05, 2020, 06:09:09 am
That's why I'm building it.  ;D

The RW S.66 did have much longer wings than the S.55X, but the S.77 takes them to new 'lengths'.............  ;)
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on November 05, 2020, 07:23:33 am
While building the first S77 engine pod, two Merlins back to back, I found an interesting facet on Lancaster engines. Not only are the inboard engine nacelles longer (they would be, they've got the main landing gear in them....) but they're wider too. The sawn down outer nacelle fits neatly inside the inboard one, making life a lot easier as there's more gluing area to deal with.  ;D

Of course it means there'll be more PSR to deal with as well, but that's life in WhiffWorld...... :(

[Note to self] I MUST remember to put the rear engine exhausts on backwards!
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on November 06, 2020, 06:05:49 am
The original plan for the S77's armament was for it to carry a couple of torpedoes under the centre section and for some gun turrets to be added where they fitted, but when I'd taken in how much wing area it would have I decided to increase its lethality by adding some bomb and depth charge racks.

So I carved a hefty hatch into the side of the hulls to make room for a couple of slide-out bomb racks like a Sunderland. Here's the starboard one with a chunk of the Lanc's bomb bay acting as the slide-out rack, but with only one bomb in position so I could get the hatch size correct.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/9461/MTuUav.jpg)


Even more plastic engineering took place to ensure the wings stayed at the correct dihedral angle as I was dubious that the Lanc's wing braces would work without some positive location inside the centre section. Accordingly I measured the gap between the top of the wing brace and the underside of the roof of the centre section and made up some packing pieces to fill the gap. NOT an easy task as it meant peering in one side of the centre section at the wing that was in position on the other side, and taking a wild guess.  :o

Luckily I guessed right, and the gap turned out to be 4mm. Here's the wing in position with the carefully shaped hole cut in the centre section to match the wing brace.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/4254/9lyxAW.jpg)


And here's the packing piece glued inside the centre section. Don't ask how I got it in there.............

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/8798/z4o8Iv.jpg)
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on November 06, 2020, 06:57:29 am
The various bits and pieces of this build were getting out of hand, and I kept on losing some of them so I got a biggish box to put all the bits I've worked on so far in the one place.

I know I prefer the 'engineering' part of such a build, but this lot's starting to look RIDICULOUS!  :o So many small parts and a hefty number of big ones too, EVERYthing in there's going to have some part to play in eventual S77, maybe not the whole Lanc fuselage, but chunks of it anyway.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/2043/FRZ65e.jpg)
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: NARSES2 on November 06, 2020, 07:08:41 am
This is going to be amazing Kit  :thumbsup:

Must admit I use boxes to separate various sub-assemblies on my builds and then I'll use milk container (they're not bottles anymore) tops to keep the small parts in. Comes in useful especially when painting.
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on November 09, 2020, 03:43:06 am
Using Lancaster wings for the S77 gave me one BIG problem. Because the main wheels retract into the inner engine nacelles, I've ended up with two HUGE holes in the underside of each wing. So I added some support plates around the edges of the holes and plated them in with handy styrene I had that was just the right thickness. Then it was a few PSR sessions, and at last it's looking smooth again.

Here's the before and after construction pics of the holes.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/2796/WkCiHp.jpg)
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on November 10, 2020, 03:01:42 pm
I don't think I've built such a complicated model in ages, lots of small parts, all of which are meant to come together to make the whole thing, and they already do in my head.....  ;)

But now they're starting to come together, both wing halves are now glued onto the centre section, and it's looking to be quite a large model eventually.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/841/zXTxbV.jpg)

Because the thickness of the S55 centre section is quite bit more than the Lancaster outer wings, I've added some stepped padding at the roots, and you can see that's already glued in place onto the port wing.

What you can't see is the ASV radome that's scabbed onto the underside of the starboard wing.  ;)

It looks a bit like a Sunderland Mk 5, but the radome is the Lanc's H2S dome that's been filed down to fit the wing curvature.

In the process of all this wing work I managed to knock all THREE seats out of the cockpit. :( I've found the Captain's and First Officer's seats, but the Flight Engineer's has vanished. I've got some spares knocking around somewhere though.

The first twinned engine nacalle is making progress too, lots of PSR and bits of Lanc fuselage top grafted in to fill in the gaps. The rear engine will need a cooling air intake and that's being donated by one of the spare fuselages that come with the AZ MB6s that I've got.

No, I haven't figured out how to mount the nacalle on a pylon with the intake underneath it, but I'm working on it...... ;D
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: zenrat on November 11, 2020, 02:10:04 am
I think you are missing a trick Kit.
The inner section of the Lanc wing - from the outside edge of the inner nacelles to the root - is constant chord and as you are cannibalising two aircraft you could extend the span by adding the inner section of the spare set of wings...
 ;)
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on November 11, 2020, 04:48:09 am
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I actually thought of doing that too, but it looked WELL OTT, so I stuck with one wing set per side.
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: Gondor on November 11, 2020, 11:17:18 am
I think you are missing a trick Kit.
The inner section of the Lanc wing - from the outside edge of the inner nacelles to the root - is constant chord and as you are cannibalising two aircraft you could extend the span by adding the inner section of the spare set of wings...
 ;)

Tha's what I am doing with My Lancaster XL (https://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php?topic=28781.msg434515#msg434515)

Gondor
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on November 11, 2020, 12:48:12 pm
You may recall I was having to think about how to get the engine cooling air into and out of the paired, back-to-back Merlins a while ago. Last night I had a brain wave at around 1 am, as you do  ;D and this is what I came up with.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/8013/hCB3Gh.jpg)

The outline of the paired Merlins is in black of course, and the pylon plan is in red (thanks for the idea Fred.  :thumbsup:) Now the cooling air exhaust from the front engine will go down into the pylon and will be directed out from a port on the INBOARD side of the pylon itself (shown in green) The intake cooling air for the rear engine will be sucked in from a duct (an AZ MB6 fuselage cooling duct turned on its side) from the OUTBOARD side of the pylon, into the rear of the pylon and from there up into the radiator (shown in blue)

So what do you think of that do you see any problems?
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: Gondor on November 11, 2020, 10:18:11 pm
You could just mount the rear engines radiator on the top of the engine and back to front. Don't forget the make sure that the propellor for the rear engine is faceing the right way.

Gondor
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: zenrat on November 12, 2020, 02:13:03 am
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I actually thought of doing that too, but it looked WELL OTT, so I stuck with one wing set per side.

shock! horror! gasp!
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on November 12, 2020, 03:51:41 am

You could just mount the rear engines radiator on the top of the engine and back to front. Don't forget the make sure that the propellor for the rear engine is faceing the right way.


I could, but then it would lose the inherent 'Merlinness' of the engines. The idea was to keep the original intakes and radiators but working in reverse.

The prop issue still has to be sorted, and the engine would have to run in reverse if I kept the prop with the same pitch angles.
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: joncarrfarrelly on November 12, 2020, 09:43:05 pm

You could just mount the rear engines radiator on the top of the engine and back to front. Don't forget the make sure that the propellor for the rear engine is faceing the right way.


I could, but then it would lose the inherent 'Merlinness' of the engines. The idea was to keep the original intakes and radiators but working in reverse.

The prop issue still has to be sorted, and the engine would have to run in reverse if I kept the prop with the same pitch angles.

An idler gear in the reduction box to reverse the prop rotation, just like they did with
the handed Merlins on the Hornet and the P-82 etc.
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on November 13, 2020, 04:00:02 am

An idler gear in the reduction box to reverse the prop rotation, just like they did with
the handed Merlins on the Hornet and the P-82 etc.


That's the current plan, yes. There may be a wafer thin spacer between the prop and the front face of the engine to accommodate the idler.

Was the opposite rotation Merlin in the Hornets longer than the other one? I seem to remember seeing that somewhere..............
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on November 14, 2020, 03:34:53 pm
Faring the thick S55 wings into the relatively thin Lancaster wings is quite a hefty job, and it's needed lots of filing and eventual PSR sessions. I'm on the 4th of the latter so far, and only on the port wing too, but it's getting there.

Thank goodness I've got a tank kit to play with while I'm waiting.  ;D
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on November 17, 2020, 03:16:08 pm
At LAST I've got the port wing fairing fully PSR'd and primed. It took SEVEN PSR sessions in the end!  :banghead: :banghead:

The only problem is I've now got to do the starboard side. :(

The first engine pair is together and the props shafts are aligned. There's going to be a brass tube going all the way through from one end to the other to ensure the props are parallel. No, they won't both rotate at the same time, but it would be possible, and logical as the props are both clockwise rotators.
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on November 19, 2020, 06:53:49 am
Work's proceeding apace on the S77, but there are SO many bits and pieces that need work on them that it takes an age before any progress is obvious.

The wing assembly's looking promising with the port side just needing its panel lines re-engraved, and I'm about to start the endless PSR on the faring between the inner and outer halves of the starboard side. You can see the layered styrene in the pic below.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/5210/oRcXP2.jpg)

The engine assemblies are also coming along, I'm in the middle of PSRing one pair, and I've been drilling them to take the prop mounting tube. The other engine pair only consists of the front half so far, but that has a Merlin visible, thanks to the Revell Lanc kit providing two of them.  :thumbsup:

To get the prop tube in place on that engine I had to drill right THROUGH the Merlin.  :o Not an easy job as it's pretty fragile, but it's done now.
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on November 29, 2020, 08:57:14 am
At last the tedious multiple PSR sessions on the S77's wings are about done. Just a little fine finish putty on some of the scratched areas should see the end of it, thank goodness. You can see the multi-layered styrene I used to fair in the two different wing types below, but it's been primered again now so they're not so visible.

The first engine pair is also on its last PSR stages too, so some progress is being made.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/8508/6xzAef.jpg)
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on November 30, 2020, 05:54:29 am
It's starting to look like a Savoia Marchetti now I've glued the two hulls in place.

The word 'place' is used here in its WIDEST possible sense as fit they don't!  :banghead:

The undersurface of the wing is curved and the upper surfaces of the hulls are curved as well, but they're two different curves! They meet here and there, just about enough to make a reasonable gluing surface, but they're both going to need OODLES of PSR to fill in the gaps. You can see the amount of tape I had to use just to get some worthwhile gluing area!

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/5163/1uRrN7.jpg)

The rather skeletal booms will have to be test fitted before I start the PSR on the hulls as I'd hate to have to chop some of the putty away and then re-apply it.

A terrible job really, but someone had to do it I suppose.....
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on December 01, 2020, 02:51:38 pm
In its intended anti-shipping role Middle East Command determined that the S77 needed some forward facing armament, which was sadly lacking in its Regia Aeronautica period, so Flt. Lt. Baker, (Yes, the same Flt. Lt. Baker who produced the six Wellesley B(PR)IIIs... ;)) decided to fit a couple of forward facing turrets, one in each hull.

So here's the first one in position, still needing some PSR etc. but you can see the general idea. Yes, there will be one on the other hull too.

(Well, I've got two Lancaster kits so there's two forward gun turrets, why waste one?  ;D)

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/4602/LsG2xw.jpg)

Pretty it isn't, but then neither was the S77 originally, and the Lancaster wasn't actually a thing of beauty either.
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: Flyer on December 02, 2020, 08:48:25 am
the Lancaster wasn't actually a thing of beauty either.

One of the better looking heavy bomber's IMO...
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on December 02, 2020, 08:54:46 am
the Lancaster wasn't actually a thing of beauty either.

One of the better looking heavy bomber's IMO...


True, but it's a job making one of that period look good. To my mind maybe only the B-29 succeeded.
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: Flyer on December 02, 2020, 09:53:28 am
the Lancaster wasn't actually a thing of beauty either.

One of the better looking heavy bomber's IMO...


True, but it's a job making one of that period look good. To my mind maybe only the B-29 succeeded.

:P yuck, a capped off tube with wings, at least the Lancaster had an interesting shape to it.  ;D
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: Old Wombat on December 02, 2020, 03:28:18 pm
The B-29 has always looked like a flying dildo, to me. :angel:
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: Flyer on December 02, 2020, 03:38:39 pm
I was trying to think of a non offensive PC way of saying just that, but couldn't so I went with the capped off tube remark, cheers Guy.  ;D :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: buzzbomb on December 03, 2020, 01:45:31 pm
.. have to agree with Guy.

Back on the S77.. the work going into this is very nice. Appreciating the effort
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: Flyer on December 03, 2020, 02:21:53 pm
Back on the S77.. the work going into this is very nice. Appreciating the effort
Agreed :thumbsup:

Got sidetracked by Lancaster's and totally forgot to comment on the progress... :rolleyes:
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: kitbasher on December 03, 2020, 02:25:34 pm
the Lancaster wasn't actually a thing of beauty either.

One of the better looking heavy bomber's IMO...


True, but it's a job making one of that period look good. To my mind maybe only the B-29 succeeded.

B-24J Liberator for me, Halifax III then the B-29.

Halifax III stretched forward of the wings with tricycle u/c would be a looker.
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on December 03, 2020, 02:45:42 pm
Work's almost complete on the starboard hull's nose turret, and I'll start on the port hull tomorrow. Weirder and yet more weird.  ;D

One engine pair is done now, complete with the prop tube that goes all the way through and helps keep the two halves aligned while the glue is setting. All the props have been built too, with two of them assembled the opposite way round to act as pushers. (The rear engine runs in reverse remember...)

I've started on the engine pylon, thanks to a genius idea by Fed Zenrat who suggested wrapping some styrene sheet round a tube at the front and letting the rear halves take up a natural curve. As it happens the sprues on the SM-55X kit are SO huge that they made ideal formers for the front end, and here's the first pylon assembly. I put in a smaller spacer toward the rear to fill out the shape a little as the rear radiator cooling intake will be going through the pylon itself.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/2908/CmrTC0.jpg)


Here's the engine pair with its props in position shown in position relative to the pylon. I'll have to cut and trim the top and bottom of the pylon to match the engines and the wing centre section of course.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/9283/p1Er4s.jpg)
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: Old Wombat on December 03, 2020, 04:19:38 pm
 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: zenrat on December 04, 2020, 02:13:31 am
Not sure about genius Kit.
I forgot to mention, if you want to add a bit of a curve to the sides then cut appropriately shaped formers to glue inside.

As far as Bombers go i've always like the Stirling.  It's like a big clumsy oaf.
Fortress is I think better looking than the Lanc but the Dominater tops them all.

Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on December 04, 2020, 04:24:59 am
Yes, a Stirling is pretty impressive, especially with its height!  :o

But it always looks like a 1/48 fuselage married to 1/72 scale wings to me, a problem that I've been trying to resolve for some years now with my everlasting 'Long Stirling' project.

(See what I did then?  ;D)
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on December 04, 2020, 07:10:11 am
The OOB S-55X has two fins and three rudders, the third rudder's just suspended in the centre of the tailplane with no visible means of support, very strange. Sadly one of the outboard rudders has gone walkabout so I've modified the centre rudder to look like an outboard one. They're almost the same, just a bit of trimming was needed, and I'll procure a centre fin & rudder.

It may look as if it came from a Lancaster.....  ;)

The second engine pair is well under way, and this one has a visible Merlin uncowled in the forward position, just because I like the idea.

And the port hull's nose turret is being put together. It's a pretty fiddly job as the turret base doesn't want to stay together until it's in place on the hull and all the filing and trimming has to be done very carefully or it all collapses.

Don't ask me know this, but it's handy that I've got a few Lanc kits with  me.....
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: loupgarou on December 04, 2020, 12:41:00 pm
The OOB S-55X has two fins and three rudders, the third rudder's just suspended in the centre of the tailplane with no visible means of support, very strange. Sadly one of the outboard rudders has gone walkabout so I've modified the centre rudder to look like an outboard one. They're almost the same, just a bit of trimming was needed, and I'll procure a centre fin & rudder.

It may look as if it came from a Lancaster.....  ;)

The second engine pair is well under way, and this one has a visible Merlin uncowled in the forward position, just because I like the idea.

And the port hull's nose turret is being put together. It's a pretty fiddly job as the turret base doesn't want to stay together until it's in place on the hull and all the filing and trimming has to be done very carefully or it all collapses.

Don't ask me know this, but it's handy that I've got a few Lanc kits with  me.....

There is an horizontal strut between the outboard fins that steadies the central rudder, and also a diagonal strut from "that" point to the leading edge of the tailplane.
Parts are included in the kit.
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on December 04, 2020, 01:41:10 pm

There is an horizontal strut between the outboard fins that steadies the central rudder, and also a diagonal strut from "that" point to the leading edge of the tailplane.
Parts are included in the kit.


Yes, but that's for an S.55X. I'm building an S.77.  ;D ;D
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on December 06, 2020, 07:29:49 am
The S77's got its first engine and pylon assembled now, and it's not looking too bad. It'll need some filler on the radiator outlets for the rear engine and I'll have to cut the scoops and outlets in the sides of the pylon, but it fits quite well.

Lots of work to do on the bottom of the pylon to fit it to the wing centre section of course, and I'm not quite sure how to do that yet..... :-\

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/6510/cxOSgd.jpg)

I've assembled the tailplane and fins/rudders now too, and very odd they look, very 1930s, but then that's when the S77s were built anyway.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/504/YajXqk.jpg)

As I surmised earlier, the centre fin did come from one of the Lanc kits.  ;D

Don't worry Dave, there's almost an entire Lanc kit left over for you.  ;D
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: buzzbomb on December 06, 2020, 01:22:33 pm
Still moving along swimmingly, now eagerly awaiting the "put together" part of the build
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on December 06, 2020, 02:11:07 pm
So am I, and there's LOTS of bits!  :o
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: Flyer on December 07, 2020, 01:35:39 am
 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: zenrat on December 07, 2020, 03:33:51 am
...Lots of work to do on the bottom of the pylon to fit it to the wing centre section of course, and I'm not quite sure how to do that yet...

Place some sandpaper on the wing upper surface and rub the pylon from side to side until the profiles match.
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: Flyer on December 07, 2020, 03:47:46 am
That is a very logical suggestion, I must remember that for use on some r/c models, make a template that way for transferring onto drawn plans. Awesome, fixes a long running issue I've had while trying to fit ready made wing's to a scratch built fuselage.  :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Most simple (!) Solution I've used in the past was to saw the wing in half and trace out the section, then re-join and strengthen the wing...  :rolleyes: :banghead:
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on December 07, 2020, 04:04:42 am
Good idea that, thanks.  :thumbsup:

That'll be the 'final solution' (If I can use such a phrase these days...) to get a close match, but the centre section has such a curve on it that the pylon will need some serious scalpel surgery before I get that far.
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on December 08, 2020, 12:28:13 pm
Another 'bits in the box' pic showing all the stuff that has to come together to make up the S-77.

I'm getting there, but it's starting to become tedious, the PSR bits anyway.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/7599/8jWn5R.jpg)
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: ericr on December 08, 2020, 12:31:16 pm
 :o :o :o
 :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
courage !
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on December 08, 2020, 01:11:45 pm
Thanks, I'll need it!
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: loupgarou on December 08, 2020, 01:20:16 pm
I am curious about where the Mustang fuselage will go in your build.  :o
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on December 08, 2020, 02:23:40 pm
The Mustang under belly scoop will be the cooling intake for the rear engines of the two paired Merlins, mounted on the outer side of the pylons. The corresponding radiator exhaust from the front engines will go through the pylon and exit on the inside, keeping the two airflows separate.

At least that's the plan.................  ;)
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on December 09, 2020, 08:39:18 am
After laboriously sawing down the nose of the port hull to take the other nose turret I found that neither hull sits vertically, and cants inwards toward the bottom. :(

So looking from the front the turrets don't sit level, and as I've got the starboard one glued and PSR'd in place the port one will just have to match, so THAT'LL be sitting at a slant too.  :banghead:

The kit comes with two rather basic beaching trollies, and I'm wondering if they'll fit with the hulls canted like that.

I might add that the cant has nothing to do with my lack of building skill, the main wing centre section is the cause of the problem, the two 'beds' that the hulls glue to are canted relative to the upper side of the wing. :(
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: kitbasher on December 09, 2020, 12:05:31 pm
All this PSR - body-building regime?
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on December 09, 2020, 12:09:40 pm
No, my right elbow is wearing out as a result. :(
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on December 19, 2020, 12:30:17 pm
As with the KMD-11, the PSR on the hulls and wing sections are done on the S77.  ;D

Now to replace the seats in the cockpit, and glue the canopy in place before figuring out how tall the engine pylons need to be. That'll be AFTER I've added the booms and tail of course as the engine pods will be in-line with the booms, unlike the S55X, where they were on the centre line.
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on December 19, 2020, 01:51:05 pm
Now it's starting to look like the finished article, but a way to go yet.

Of course there'll be oodles of PSR to do around the boom roots etc. This IS a Delta kit of course, a 1970s version of Mach2............  :banghead:

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/6198/p8xGgx.jpg)
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: Tophe on December 19, 2020, 08:42:00 pm
Good! (seen from a distance I mean) ;)
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: Dizzyfugu on December 20, 2020, 01:29:12 am
While I see Kit's affection with long wings taking hardware shape, seeing this thing in full splendor makes me doubt a little about its handling qualities on water with those long and low wing tips...?  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on December 20, 2020, 04:13:38 am
The SM multi-hulls had a very good reputation for their stability in the RW, and the S77 was no exception.

Helped no end by the travelator running from one hull to the other so that the crew in one hull could rush to the other hull to alleviate any sea swell derived roll.....................  ;) ;) ;)

(Kit's 2nd Law applies  ;D)
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on December 21, 2020, 01:42:20 pm
The booms needed a fair amount of PSR at both ends, predictably, as this IS a Delta kit after all. Equally predictably, the lower joint, where the booms meet the stern of the hulls, snapped while I was doing the 'S' bit of the PSR.  :banghead:

THREE times!  :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

I superglued them the first two times, but I can't be bothered any more, they'll just have to stay snapped until the PSR on the tail is done.

I've built an inner floor for the cockpit as the seats just wouldn't stay glued to the kit floor. Now I've got all three well and truly stuck to the false floor, and it fits nicely without pushing the canopy up too far.  ;D
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: buzzbomb on December 21, 2020, 02:19:58 pm
Very, nice and very worth the effort.
It has a good look and I reckon the engine will nail it
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on December 21, 2020, 03:02:11 pm
That's be engineS, four of them.  ;D Glad you like it, thanks.

The S-77 has a cockpit interior at last.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/4361/i9bJlL.jpg)

Getting this in place was on the 'critical path', as without it I couldn't put the canopy on and without that in position I couldn't check the clearance between the tips of the props and the canopy, wing upper surface, booms etc. so I'm pleased it's in position.

I've got to mask the canopy before I glue that in place, and I just know that's going to be a PITA. There's LOADS of tiny square windows all over the darn thing. :(
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: zenrat on December 22, 2020, 03:01:51 am
At least they are square windows.  Tiny curved windows would be a bigger PitA to mask.
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on December 22, 2020, 04:02:25 am

At least they are square windows.  Tiny curved windows would be a bigger PitA to mask.


I'd rather not even THINK about doing that!  :o
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: NARSES2 on December 22, 2020, 06:29:18 am
I see the RAF have swapped the RAI's "Fetish" seatbelts for something saner ?  ;)
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on December 22, 2020, 06:45:30 am

I see the RAF have swapped the RAI's "Fetish" seatbelts for something saner ?  ;)


They swapped almost EVERYthing for something saner, except the overall shape of the aeroplane.

That includes the engines, the weapons loadout, even the method of deploying the weapons, some of the camo scheme and added some gun turrets as well.  ;D
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: NARSES2 on December 23, 2020, 06:32:40 am

I see the RAF have swapped the RAI's "Fetish" seatbelts for something saner ?  ;)


They swapped almost EVERYthing for something saner, except the overall shape of the aeroplane.

That includes the engines, the weapons loadout, even the method of deploying the weapons, some of the camo scheme and added some gun turrets as well.  ;D

Ah but did they retain the cappuccino machine ?  ;)
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on December 23, 2020, 07:41:02 am
Yes, AND a spaghetti printer!  ;D
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: Rheged on December 23, 2020, 07:41:56 am

I see the RAF have swapped the RAI's "Fetish" seatbelts for something saner ?  ;)


They swapped almost EVERYthing for something saner, except the overall shape of the aeroplane.

That includes the engines, the weapons loadout, even the method of deploying the weapons, some of the camo scheme and added some gun turrets as well.  ;D

Ah but did they retain the cappuccino machine ?  ;)

Swapped it for a tea urn with a heat exchanger on the engine radiator.
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on December 23, 2020, 07:52:02 am

I see the RAF have swapped the RAI's "Fetish" seatbelts for something saner ?  ;)


They swapped almost EVERYthing for something saner, except the overall shape of the aeroplane.

That includes the engines, the weapons loadout, even the method of deploying the weapons, some of the camo scheme and added some gun turrets as well.  ;D

Ah but did they retain the cappuccino machine ?  ;)

Swapped it for a tea urn with a heat exchanger on the engine radiator.


That'll be engineS' radiatorS, there's four of each..............
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: Rheged on December 23, 2020, 07:56:05 am

I see the RAF have swapped the RAI's "Fetish" seatbelts for something saner ?  ;)


They swapped almost EVERYthing for something saner, except the overall shape of the aeroplane.

That includes the engines, the weapons loadout, even the method of deploying the weapons, some of the camo scheme and added some gun turrets as well.  ;D

Ah but did they retain the cappuccino machine ?  ;)

Swapped it for a tea urn with a heat exchanger on the engine radiator.


That'll be engineS' radiatorS, there's four of each..............

OK amend my contribution to "Swapped it for a tea urn with a heat exchanger on an engine radiator."
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on December 23, 2020, 08:16:54 am

I see the RAF have swapped the RAI's "Fetish" seatbelts for something saner ?  ;)


They swapped almost EVERYthing for something saner, except the overall shape of the aeroplane.

That includes the engines, the weapons loadout, even the method of deploying the weapons, some of the camo scheme and added some gun turrets as well.  ;D

Ah but did they retain the cappuccino machine ?  ;)

Swapped it for a tea urn with a heat exchanger on the engine radiator.


That'll be engineS' radiatorS, there's four of each..............

OK amend my contribution to "Swapped it for a tea urn with a heat exchanger on an engine radiator."


 :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: rickshaw on December 23, 2020, 07:40:53 pm

I see the RAF have swapped the RAI's "Fetish" seatbelts for something saner ?  ;)


They swapped almost EVERYthing for something saner, except the overall shape of the aeroplane.

That includes the engines, the weapons loadout, even the method of deploying the weapons, some of the camo scheme and added some gun turrets as well.  ;D

Ah but did they retain the cappuccino machine ?  ;)

Swapped it for a tea urn with a heat exchanger on the engine radiator.

A "Vessel, Boiling, for the use of, Mk.II", I hope? :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: NARSES2 on December 24, 2020, 06:27:24 am

A "Vessel, Boiling, for the use of, Mk.II", I hope? :thumbsup:

When I first started working for British Steel we had a tea lady who still used one of those  ;D One cup of tea in the morning and one in the afternoon. Although me and my mate could normally wangle a refill out of her  ;) ;)
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on December 24, 2020, 08:38:13 am
The centre section of the SM-77 is large enough for a complete, 4 burner kitchen range, sink & draining board, fridge AND a washing machine!  :o

And that doesn't count the space in the twin hulls either.
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: Rheged on December 24, 2020, 08:45:55 am
The centre section of the SM-77 is large enough for a complete, 4 burner kitchen range, sink & draining board, fridge AND a washing machine!  :o

And that doesn't count the space in the twin hulls either.

Is there any truth in the rumour that the NAAFI wanted the aircraft as a beach head canteen?
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on December 24, 2020, 09:01:40 am
The centre section of the SM-77 is large enough for a complete, 4 burner kitchen range, sink & draining board, fridge AND a washing machine!  :o

And that doesn't count the space in the twin hulls either.

Is there any truth in the rumour that the NAAFI wanted the aircraft as a beach head canteen?


Not quite.

Monty wanted it to land at intervals along the Egyptian Mediterranean coast to act has his own personal kitchen as his advance worked its way steadily west, chasing Rommel.

But the RAF wouldn't have it, saying 'We captured it, we re-engined it, re-armed it AND loaded it with tea and spam. Go find your own kitchen!'
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: NARSES2 on December 25, 2020, 04:13:19 am

But the RAF wouldn't have it, saying 'We captured it, we re-engined it, re-armed it AND loaded it with tea and spam. Go find your own kitchen!'

Ah Spam  :wub: I still treat myself to the occasional tin  ;D

Now I've eaten in a couple of aircraft fuselages that have been turned into cafes/restaurants, but you could probably turn that one into a flying one complete with dance floor and cabaret  ;)
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on December 25, 2020, 04:57:44 am

Now I've eaten in a couple of aircraft fuselages that have been turned into cafes/restaurants, but you could probably turn that one into a flying one complete with dance floor and cabaret  ;)


I like it.  :thumbsup:

I may include a speaker and a sound track in the build now.  ;D
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: rickshaw on December 26, 2020, 05:48:08 pm

Now I've eaten in a couple of aircraft fuselages that have been turned into cafes/restaurants, but you could probably turn that one into a flying one complete with dance floor and cabaret  ;)


I like it.  :thumbsup:

I may include a speaker and a sound track in the build now.  ;D

Can you dance to the "RAF March"?  ;) ;)
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on December 27, 2020, 05:13:15 am

Now I've eaten in a couple of aircraft fuselages that have been turned into cafes/restaurants, but you could probably turn that one into a flying one complete with dance floor and cabaret  ;)


I like it.  :thumbsup:

I may include a speaker and a sound track in the build now.  ;D

Can you dance to the "RAF March"?  ;) ;)


Actually I think you can, I've watched my Mum and Dad do exactly that.  ;D They changed step according to the bands rhythm change too.  :o

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=raf+march+past+youtube&&view=detail&mid=3A87D0FD654517F48BB03A87D0FD654517F48BB0&&FORM=VRDGAR&ru=%2Fvideos%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Draf%2Bmarch%2Bpast%2Byoutube%26FORM%3DVDRESM (https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=raf+march+past+youtube&&view=detail&mid=3A87D0FD654517F48BB03A87D0FD654517F48BB0&&FORM=VRDGAR&ru=%2Fvideos%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Draf%2Bmarch%2Bpast%2Byoutube%26FORM%3DVDRESM)
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: dogsbody on January 13, 2021, 04:35:36 pm
I've just found this topic and it looks most interesting.

A question, if I may, regarding the props. Will you be reversing the pitch of the rear pair, or are you going with the rear engines having an opposite rotation to the front engines?




Chris
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on January 14, 2021, 07:30:31 am
The rear engines will have an extra idler gear, and the prop mounted the other way round on my model.

Finding some matching props with the other rotation turned out to be impossible, so now I've got maybe 4-5 sets of wrong props in my spares box. :(
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on January 14, 2021, 03:52:31 pm
Lots of work on the S77 today. I tidied up the main wing-fuselage assembly after mucho PSR etc, and gave it a final coat of primer.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/9228/pLjQKE.jpg)

I'm not quite sure what to do with the dents in the upper wing where the original engine struts went. I could fill them in, using the bottom of the struts themselves and then PSR the hell out of them, or just leave them as they are, suggesting that the RAF at Heliopolis couldn't really bothered be after having more than doubled the horsepower. What's a little form drag with that much muscle, eh?  ;D

I've also sorted the cooling for the rear engine of the starboard Merlin pair, with a cooling exhaust port for the front engine on the inside of the pylon (just a case of cutting the styrene and bending part of the skin inwards) and I added the cooling intake for the rear engine's radiator on the outside of the pylon. That used to be the cooling scoop for an AZ MB5 that I had lying around.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/7653/pxKqA4.jpg)

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/4858/IrjZQT.jpg)

Just doing some PSR on the latter and then the pylon's ready for priming.
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on January 17, 2021, 03:49:34 am
I just spent a 'happy' hour re-scribing a zillion panel lines on the S77. How I HATE re-scribing Panel lines! It's almost as bad as PSR stuff, but not quite.  :banghead:

As most of the wing of this comes from a metal Lancaster there's LOADS of lines on the outboard section, but the inner wing is wooden, so doesn't really need them, so I had to blend them in gradually. Not helped by the fact that the inner wing mostly consists of layers of styrene sheet and a ton of putty, but it's done now.

I don't guarantee that both sides are the same however.....  ;)

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/9813/JPa9Mm.jpg)
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: tigercat on January 17, 2021, 05:07:35 am
Coming along nicely  ;D
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: Old Wombat on January 17, 2021, 06:29:06 am
I don't guarantee that both sides are the same however.....  ;)

Well, that's just not good enough! :angry:





 :wacko: ;D ;D ;D :angel:
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: Rheged on January 17, 2021, 06:45:20 am
I don't guarantee that both sides are the same however.....  ;)

Well, that's just not good enough!

 

This could be part of a cunning plan.......either that, or he's setting out to go for Tophe-type asymmetry to fool us all.
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on January 17, 2021, 07:07:29 am
I just got SO cheesed off with that damn scribing!  :banghead:

The backstory will say that Flt. Lt. Barker's guy's replated some of the S77's wing panels as they'd taken hits from a couple of RAF Gladiators while it was trying to escape from Masawa and that's why the crew surrendered it.  ;D
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on January 17, 2021, 02:27:17 pm
It's got engines!  ;D

Well, two of them anyway. It's starting to look how I imagined it now, but it'll be even better with all four engines of course.

At the moment it's a 'Tophe-like' with only a couple on one side.  ;D

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/586/7hZ6ed.jpg)
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: tigercat on January 17, 2021, 02:31:32 pm
Very Tophesque ;D
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: Rheged on January 17, 2021, 02:36:43 pm
I anticipate that there will be a considerable rush of people keen to nominate this for a Whiffy award  when it is finished .    I'm looking forward to the backstory as much as the model!
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on January 17, 2021, 03:52:22 pm
You wait till you see the colour scheme I have planned for it.  ;D

With the emphasis on 'colour'......  ;)
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: tigercat on January 17, 2021, 04:06:54 pm
Mountbatten pink ?
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: ericr on January 18, 2021, 12:49:55 am
 :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on January 20, 2021, 04:57:17 am

Mountbatten pink ?


Not exactly.  ;D

In fact, not at all.

As the SM-77 was shot up quite badly before its surrender to the attacking Gladiators, it needed a fair amount of patching up having been flown back to RAF Heliopolis on the Nile. Of course the RAF didn't have any paint to match the RA colours, so used the closest they had, thus the Mid Stone patches on the Nocciola  Chiaro 4" upper wing colour. As the entire wing centre section was rebuilt to take the four Merlins, it will all be re-done in Mid Stone and the underside in Azure Blue, and will eventually have some Dark Earth camo patches as well.

That's all before the Italian 'camo' is added, not to mention the RAF roundels overlaid on the RA fasces markings.  ;) ;) ;)

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/1050/f8tiTE.jpg)

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/7796/i0irED.jpg)
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: Tophe on January 20, 2021, 11:26:35 am
it'll be even better with all four engines of course.
At the moment it's a 'Tophe-like' with only a couple on one side.  ;D
At the moment, it is wonderfully asymmetric, thanks! :thumbsup: ;D
(2 engines are enough, according to me, no need of 4) ;)
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: tigercat on January 20, 2021, 12:12:34 pm
I look forward to seeing the finished  visual smorgasbord
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on January 20, 2021, 12:19:58 pm

I look forward to seeing the finished  visual smorgasbord


So do I......................

But it's being a right pain at the moment. :(
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: joncarrfarrelly on January 20, 2021, 01:09:30 pm
How was it to fly ;)
Being so short-coupled it would be interesting, to say the least.  :wacko: ;D ;D
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on January 20, 2021, 01:14:20 pm
I bet it'd have been VERY throttle and trim sensitive, to say the least also.... :-\
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: Tophe on January 20, 2021, 09:28:14 pm
it'll be even better with all four engines of course.
At the moment it's a 'Tophe-like' with only a couple on one side.  ;D
At the moment, it is wonderfully asymmetric, thanks! :thumbsup: ;D
(2 engines are enough, according to me, no need of 4) ;)
I have found the Historical explanation!
Kit you are building the 4-engined S.77 while I was referring to the 2-engined asymmetric S.77A:  <_<
(http://www.kristofmeunier.fr/savoia77a.jpg)
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on January 21, 2021, 02:57:16 am
The wings are a bit short.................  ;D
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: Tophe on January 21, 2021, 03:04:50 am
Yes, I apologize... ;)
(This is not a vector drawing, that could be changed completely as I want, just a bitmap modification, not easy to extend where there is sweep angle) :-\
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: Tophe on January 21, 2021, 03:37:59 am
I have tried to extend as bitmaps but the lines become blurred, sorry... :unsure:
(https://i.imgur.com/qAGk2kA.jpg)
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on January 21, 2021, 04:06:51 am
MUCH more like it!  ;D
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on January 21, 2021, 06:09:27 am
How about this for a camo scheme then?  ;D

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/3849/86jltA.jpg)

That's the RA's 'smoke rings' overlaid on the RAF's repaired wing of the SM-77. The smoke rings are a home printed, re-sized decal scanned from a Taurus original, with the repair areas cut out after the decal was applied. Yes, that's the WHOLE wing covered in a decal, and no, I didn't do it all in one piece!  ;D

Then there's a home printed triple FA fasces decal which has been roughly overpainted with Mid Stone and then an RAF B Type roundel on top of that. It was a bit complicated.....  ;)
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: tigercat on January 21, 2021, 06:13:16 am
My Hat off to your level of Patience good Sir  ;D
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: ericr on January 21, 2021, 08:38:31 am
 :o :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on January 21, 2021, 09:54:39 am
I've got the other wing to do yet. That'll be another whole evening I won't ever get back............... :(

But it does look JUST like I intended a long time ago when I bought the S-55X kit.  ;D
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: buzzbomb on January 21, 2021, 01:27:54 pm
Really well done.

 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: zenrat on January 22, 2021, 03:51:25 am
 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on January 24, 2021, 07:58:54 am
Lots of fiddly, little jobs on the SM-77 today, while the umpteenth layer of Mid Stone paint is drying.

The Delta kit comes with two small beaching trollies, as the aeroplane has two hulls of course, but they're NOTHING like the last beaching trolley I built, the monster, all hydraulic one for the Monetery! But, having built them and tested them under the SM-77, I found it was a full-time tail sitter of course, as the engines aren't real ones to give it the correct CG. So I figured it'd need some jockey wheels under the aft end of each hull, and the Lancaster tail wheels were going spare of course, so they've been pressed into service.  ;D

The job I've been putting off for ages was to build the port engine pylon, but now I've bitten the bullet on that and the glue is drying prior to assembling it under the port engine pair.

I've also done the two sideways sliding bomb  racks, complete with their weapons loads, bombs on the starboard side and depth charges on the port. The depth charges were made by just cutting off the rounded noses of some bombs and filing them flat (-ish...)

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/9407/FStto8.jpg)
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: buzzbomb on January 24, 2021, 03:35:17 pm
Details like that will set this whole build off  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on January 26, 2021, 04:30:46 am
MORE fiddly stuff, but included in that was the last construction work on the port engine nacelle.  ;D With luck that'll be glued in place later today.

But first I've got to paint that wonderfully detailed Merlin that Revell supply in their Lanc kit, TWO of them even! Still, someone's got to do it....

I've painted up the torpedoes and the beaching trollies and finally assembled the gun turrets, with FOUR 0.303s each. You can never have enough fire power.  ;)

The four props are almost done too, just awaiting their yellow tips now.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/2613/j3tZAg.jpg)
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on January 26, 2021, 06:48:48 am
Now it's got FOUR engines.  ;D

Sorry Tophe, it's symmetrical now.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/3277/GqHHbm.jpg)


The engine detail painting was fiddly, and needed some thought to do the various colours in the correct order. It needs a bit of tidying up yet, but it's not too bad.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/439/308pQ4.jpg)
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on January 26, 2021, 07:41:54 am
 :banghead: :banghead:

The painting of the yellow prop tips didn't work worth a light. :(

My previous method was to dip them in a shallow pool of yellow paint poured into the cap of a defunct Humbrol tinlet, but this time the paint seems to have crawled UP the prop blades so there's far too much yellow. Maybe extra surface tension because of the cold?

I've now had to re-do the black and I'll do it the old way, a dab with a brush.
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: kitbasher on January 26, 2021, 07:52:30 am
Great work, Kit  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: ericr on January 26, 2021, 07:55:20 am
 :o :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: Tophe on January 26, 2021, 11:59:51 am
Sorry Tophe, it's symmetrical now.
You are forgiven <_<
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: NARSES2 on January 27, 2021, 06:26:59 am
Great work, Kit  :thumbsup:

'Tis indeed
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on January 27, 2021, 09:06:19 am
Lots of fiddly things being done today. I've camouflaged the centre section and both engines with some Dark Earth in a psuedo-RAF pattern, and then de-masked the canopy, and what a job THAT was! :(

I tried to do the canopy frames with painted tape, but it was a total failure. The stuff wouldn't stay on as the frames are very narrow and there wasn't enough area to stick to, so I painted them. Trying to do that down the gap between the engines and canopy was no fun, so I just daubed it on, and then scraped the excess off with a cocktail stick, which worked a treat.  ;D

I've scratched some brackets for the aft beaching wheels, which look as if they'll fit OK, but the wheels need painting yet, that should be the last painting job on the model with luck.

It's been Kleared all over now as well, prior to decalling, but it's not that wonderful. The camo'd centre section has a very rough finish as the Hataka Dark Earth goes on quite thickly. It only needed one coat, whereas the underlying Mid Stone needed SIX!  :o

I should get there by the weekend with luck. Fingers crossed.
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on January 28, 2021, 12:30:15 pm
ALL the decals are on now, just the small detail painting jobs to do and the final assembly of all the add-on bits, if they fit of course........
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on January 29, 2021, 10:43:34 am
It's almost finished!  ;D

Pics and (lengthy...) backstory later tonight.
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti S77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: tigercat on January 29, 2021, 12:02:36 pm
Yay
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti SM-77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on January 29, 2021, 03:16:13 pm
The RAF's sole SM-77

 The Savoia-Marchetti SM-77 was the ultimate development of the twin hulled flying boat range designed and built by the major Italian aircraft company in the 20s and 30s. Just as the SM-66 was a three engined and larger version of the well known SM-55, so the SM-77 was a four engined and much larger version of the SM-66. The twinned hulls of all three types were essentially similar though, and with a similar cockpit arrangement mounted over the wing centre section. All three types used V-12 engines, some by Isotta Fraschini and some by Fiat, and most producing around 800 bhp per engine. In all cases the engines were mounted on struts above the centre section and in the case of the SM-55 and the SM-77, were paired so that the rear engines drove pusher propellers.

 The spans of the three types steadily increased from 78 ft for the SM-55, through the 108 ft of the SM-66, to the 117 ft of the SM-77, all the while maintaining a similar length of around 54 ft. While originally designed as civilian passenger transports, all three types were pressed into military service with the Regia Aeronautica as bombers or for maritime reconnaissance tasks, the SM-77 being the only one of the twin hulled types to see serious service during WWII. Although mostly operating in the central Mediterranean and the Adriatic, two of the big boats were sent down to the Red Sea to assist with Italian operation in Eritrea and Abyssinia, being based at the port of Masawa at the northern tip of Eritrea. Their tasking was mainly for reconnaissance and anti-shipping patrols in the Red Sea, but there was little traffic for the two boats and one was returned to Italy as there was more need for it around its home country.

  The remaining SM-77 carried on operating from Masawa, but little action was seen until the Allied offensive started in December 1940. Bomber attacks against Masawa, the prime port for the Italian forces, by 47 Sqdn Wellesleys commenced almost immediately and persuaded the RA that the SM-77 should attempt to return to Italy, flying across the Arabian peninsula, Palestine and the Med. In late January 1941 the SM-77 took off on its homeward bound flight and was almost immediately intercepted by RAF Gladiators operating from Port Sudan. As the SM-77 had no defensive armament at the time it suffered a large number of hits in the engines and wings, limiting its power and its range with serious punctures to its fuel tanks. The aircraft's captain, Tenente Ranallo, decided that the only way to save his crew was to surrender the aircraft and with white flags flying from both hulls, the SM-77 was escorted to Port Sudan.

 The wing and fuel tank damage was repaired enough at Port Sudan to get the aircraft as far as Egypt, whence it was flown by Ranallo and his co-pilot with an RAF security crew in the cockpit, and landed on the Nile near RAF Heliopolis, where it came under the care of the redoubtable Flt. Lt. Finlay Barker, Engineering Officer of 216 Sqdn. Barker later became famous for his conversion of time expired Wellesley bombers into the only long range PR force used by the Desert Air Force in the exceedingly long spanned shape of the Wellesley B(PR)III. Barker realised that the Italian aircraft was in very good condition apart from its recent combat damage and suggested to the AoC Middle East Air Force that they restore it to airworthy condition and use it in the anti-shipping role for which Savoia-Marchetti had intended it. As such capabilities were woefully lacking in the area at that time, approval was given, little knowing what was to be the result!

 Barker set about his task with enthusiasm, and finding that parts for captured Italian engines were totally unobtainable, decided to re-engine the aircraft completely. This resulted in the use of four Merlin IIIs, arranged back to back in dual strut mounted pods mounted above each hull. The rear engines were fitted with locally machined idler gears to reverse the direction of their propellers which were then re-installed facing forward. The SM-77 already had twin torpedo racks mounted under the centre section and these were adapted to carry British Mark XII weapons, and dispensed with the Italian manual fusing system, which involved a crew member leaning out of a hatch on the inner side of each hull and setting the fuses by hand, as the Mk XIIs could be fused electrically! Deciding that more versatility in the weapons load would be required, Barker arranged for sliding bomb racks to be installed in each hull, being traversed outward under the wings for an attack, each rack being able to carry up to four 250 or 500 lbs bombs or depth charges. When the racks loads had been expended they would be re-loaded once they'd been slid back inside the hulls.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/6783/hDEplg.jpg)

General 3/4 view of the SM-77 showing the twin podded Merlins each side of the cockpit.


(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/1589/q49kY3.jpg)

Underside view showing the weapons racks either side of each hull, and the centre section mounted Mk XII torpedoes. Note the later ASV radar pod under the starboard wing.


(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/4615/4G6yvP.jpg)

Rear view showing the twin booms.


 As the aircraft had no defensive armament whatsoever, a nose gun turret was fitted to each hull, giving the SM-77 considerable strafing power against ships or submarines, a capability sadly lacking in the 47 Sqdn Wellesleys being used up to then in the MR role in the Eastern Med. The turrets each held twin Browning 0.303 machine guns, later on increased to four guns per turret, matching the firepower of a Hurricane or Spitfire! Later in the aircraft's life it was fitted with an ASV radar dome under the starboard wing, with the plotting screen installed in the adjacent hull. This enabled any shipping to be spotted at much longer distances than previously and increased the number of kills considerably.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/8114/6Qkuhx.jpg)

The twin nose gun turrets, shown in the later 4-gun configuration, and the staggered torpedo mounting.


(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/2180/wWica6.jpg)

Direct underside view showing the weapons load.


(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/7647/qfFvDg.jpg)

Rear 3/4 view showing the RAF added astrodome aft of the cockpit.


 Thus equipped the SM-77 was assigned to 47 Sqdn, being only MR tasked unit in the Eastern Med, and was found to be much better equipped than the Wellesleys for that task. Being such a distinctive shape, there being no Allied twin hulled flying boats, gave the SM-77 crews some advantage of surprise as Axis targets assumed it to be an Regia Aeronatica aircraft rather than being with the RAF. The SM-77 was clearly marked with RAF roundels and fin flashes, although somewhat crudely painted over the RA markings, but these were not visible in a head-on attack of course. The aircraft still maintained much of its RA colour scheme, although the centre section was re-painted with RAF colours being the area which had had most work carried out.

 The SM-77 flew against Axis shipping for a considerable time, and was quite successful, carrying a heavy weapons load and being able to defend itself quite well, at least in the forward sector. Targetting the Axis convoys and coastal patrols, the SM-77 sank a substantial tonnage of shipping, including two U-Boats. During its time with 47 Sqdn. a trials setup of twin 0.303s were fitted to hatches on the outer side of each hull, but these were less than successful as they shipped considerable amounts of water during take-off and landing and the experiment was short lived.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/6263/CZEZ2f.jpg)

The #1 engine undergoing routine maintenance with the access panels lying on the adjacent wing.


(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/7590/TPFJh5.jpg)

The SM-77's rather crude beaching gear, with a trolley for each hull and tail wheels supporting the aft ends.


(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/7303/vOcZqf.jpg)

The SM-77 mounted on its beaching gear.


 It was intended that the SM-77 should be returned to the UK eventually, to be evaluated by the Marine Aircraft Experimental Establishment at Felixstowe, there being no other examples of the design held by the Allies, but it was not to be. Shortly after take-off from Port Said in late 1943 the SM-77 suffered an engine fire in its starboard forward Merlin, and this quickly spread to the aft engine of the pair. Despite valiant efforts by the crew to extinguish the fire, it burnt through the starboard pylon and the entire assembly detached from the airframe, damaging the starboard boom and tail surfaces en route. The aircraft became virtually uncontrollable, but the Captain managed to land reasonably safely, but breaking the port boom in the process. Because of the asymmetric weight loading the port hull started to sink until the sea came over the weapons loading hatch in the port boom and what remained of the aircraft rapidly turned turtle and sank, the crew managing to escape into the dinghies and rafts.

 Thus ended the short but active life of the RAF's only twin hulled flying boat, much loved by her English speaking crews and feared by her German and Italian speaking adversaries.
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti SM-77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: tigercat on January 29, 2021, 04:45:33 pm
Excellent . Very very nice

Let me channel my inner airman

Savoie sounds like Savoy so the Fighting Cabbage as a nickname

Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti SM-77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: joncarrfarrelly on January 29, 2021, 09:19:55 pm
 :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Thankfully the design wasn't forgotten.

 ;D

(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/58a7ce05cd0f68a0820d0997/1608015143077-M817W0A2O8M9EZCCUS89/ke17ZwdGBToddI8pDm48kKfIw-6N2UHLwD0NKXdhfQQUqsxRUqqbr1mOJYKfIPR7LoDQ9mXPOjoJoqy81S2I8N_N4V1vUb5AoIIIbLZhVYy7Mythp_T-mtop-vrsUOmeInPi9iDjx9w8K4ZfjXt2drS68Y6Dqk46EPzGIh_M6Mr6JWA3pQzs0WdW__Cmg0ssG6v6ULRah83RgHXAWD5lbQ/InFlight01gSS.jpg?format=2500w)
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti SM-77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: ericr on January 29, 2021, 11:45:05 pm
 :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

(and there is some asymetry in the torpedoes  ;) )
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti SM-77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: buzzbomb on January 30, 2021, 01:07:08 am
Terrific.. great job getting everything in place  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti SM-77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: kitbasher on January 30, 2021, 01:22:28 am
Gosh!  Very, very well done, Kit, Whiffy nomination shoo-in there.
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti SM-77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: Rheged on January 30, 2021, 01:43:07 am
A magnificent model and a very believable backstory.
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti SM-77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: Old Wombat on January 30, 2021, 01:45:13 am
What a long career for a captured aircraft! :o

Still, a great build & excellent story, Kit! She looks great! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti SM-77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: TomZ on January 30, 2021, 01:48:42 am
Very, very well done!
Great model and story.

TomZ
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti SM-77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: Tophe on January 30, 2021, 02:01:19 am
Rear view showing the twin booms.
In "twin" I hear "two", not several, obviously this model needed a little "improvement"... <_<
(http://www.kristofmeunier.fr/SavoiaRAF77_bip.jpg)
[picture at http://www.kristofmeunier.fr/SavoiaRAF77_bip.jpg if not showing]
More satisfying for me (crazy) but less satisfying/solid for the users (sane)... sorry :-\
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti SM-77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: zenrat on January 30, 2021, 02:25:59 am
Excellent job Kit.
Love it.
 :wub:
 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti SM-77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on January 30, 2021, 04:13:08 am
Rear view showing the twin booms.

In "twin" I hear "two", not several, obviously this model needed a little "improvement"... <_<
(http://www.kristofmeunier.fr/SavoiaRAF77_bip.jpg)
[picture at http://www.kristofmeunier.fr/SavoiaRAF77_bip.jpg if not showing]
More satisfying for me (crazy) but less satisfying/solid for the users (sane)... sorry :-\


Hehehe, but would the pilot be flying the whole Aircraft or just the tailplane?  ;D

Thanks everyone, glad you like it, but it's not actually finished......

I woke up this morning and realised I'd forgotten to glue in the nav lights!  :o
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti SM-77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: NARSES2 on January 30, 2021, 06:17:09 am
Terrific build and story Kit  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti SM-77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on January 30, 2021, 06:37:46 am
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Thankfully the design wasn't forgotten.

 ;D

(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/58a7ce05cd0f68a0820d0997/1608015143077-M817W0A2O8M9EZCCUS89/ke17ZwdGBToddI8pDm48kKfIw-6N2UHLwD0NKXdhfQQUqsxRUqqbr1mOJYKfIPR7LoDQ9mXPOjoJoqy81S2I8N_N4V1vUb5AoIIIbLZhVYy7Mythp_T-mtop-vrsUOmeInPi9iDjx9w8K4ZfjXt2drS68Y6Dqk46EPzGIh_M6Mr6JWA3pQzs0WdW__Cmg0ssG6v6ULRah83RgHXAWD5lbQ/InFlight01gSS.jpg?format=2500w)


Where did that come from Jon?

I like it a LOT!  :thumbsup:

It's got even longer wings too.  ;D
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti SM-77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: PR19_Kit on January 30, 2021, 08:49:08 am
So much for adding the nav lights to the SM-77.  :banghead:

I found them on the Lanc's clear sprues OK, and they're MINUTE! Maybe 1 mm x 0.5 mm, and while cutting them off one of them pinged into orbit.... :(

Of course I have TWO Lanc kits for this job so I cut the nav lights off the other one.

While fetching the model itself from its place of honour on the sideboard, all three vanished.  :banghead:

I've no idea where they went, and there's no sign of them on the floor, so that's Plan  A out the window. I may have a go in doing them with some Krstal Klear or equivalent. On the other hand I may say 'The hell with it' and not bother.
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti SM-77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: joncarrfarrelly on January 30, 2021, 09:09:10 am
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Thankfully the design wasn't forgotten.

 ;D

(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/58a7ce05cd0f68a0820d0997/1608015143077-M817W0A2O8M9EZCCUS89/ke17ZwdGBToddI8pDm48kKfIw-6N2UHLwD0NKXdhfQQUqsxRUqqbr1mOJYKfIPR7LoDQ9mXPOjoJoqy81S2I8N_N4V1vUb5AoIIIbLZhVYy7Mythp_T-mtop-vrsUOmeInPi9iDjx9w8K4ZfjXt2drS68Y6Dqk46EPzGIh_M6Mr6JWA3pQzs0WdW__Cmg0ssG6v6ULRah83RgHXAWD5lbQ/InFlight01gSS.jpg?format=2500w)


Where did that come from Jon?

I like it a LOT!  :thumbsup:

It's got even longer wings too.  ;D

The work of Alex Ries:
https://www.alexries.com/
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti SM-77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: NARSES2 on January 31, 2021, 12:23:39 am
I may have a go in doing them with some Krstal Klear or equivalent. On the other hand I may say 'The hell with it' and not bother.

That's what I'd do. Or just skip the middle man and use "thick" paint ?
Title: Re: The RAF's sole Savoia Marchetti SM-77 - Egypt, 1942
Post by: Dizzyfugu on January 31, 2021, 04:17:37 am
Nice and weird one!  :lol:  :thumbsup: