What if

GROUP BUILDS => The Prototypes G.B. => Topic started by: PR19_Kit on July 30, 2020, 07:25:34 am

Title: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on July 30, 2020, 07:25:34 am
My other build for this GB is a car, a very different car, as it'll be a normal car, but a prototype, but with one of those disguise bodies over the top of it. I'm using parts of three different car kits for the model, one old, one medium old, and one relatively new, and the disguise body shell will be scratchbuilt from styrene sheet. I don't think anyone does a kit of such a shell so I've got no option really.  ;D

The main body shell was moulded in China some years ago, and parts of it are 3/16" thick!  :o I've been hacking large lumps of it away with the aid of my mate Pete's high-power Dremel-like machine, and I was amazed at the thickness of the mouldings. It must have cost them a fortune in styrene pellets!

The engine, from the medium age kit, is assembled, as is the rear suspension from the same kit, and bits of the modern kit will be grafted into the old kit to ensure the more modern stuff will fit.

And no, I'm not going to post any pics until it's done, just for a change. Then I'll post some build pics as well as those of the complete machine.  ;D
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: Hobbes on July 30, 2020, 08:08:20 am
This should be good; I always like those hacked-together test mules  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on July 30, 2020, 08:44:26 am
Hacked is right, the amount of stuff I've sawn away from the chassis of the main car is pretty impressive!  :o
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: kitbasher on July 30, 2020, 08:58:44 am
Lockdown stir crazy build, eh Kit?
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on July 30, 2020, 09:38:27 am
Exactly!

Going way back to my 1960s car testing days.  ;D
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: Gondor on July 30, 2020, 10:08:53 am
Hacked is right, the amount of stuff I've sawn away from the chassis of the main car is pretty impressive!  :o

Is there anything left of it or is that a secret  :mellow:

Gondor
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on July 30, 2020, 01:13:58 pm
LOTS of it left, it's a big car.  ;D

I had to dig out the moulded in engine compartment to fit the new engine and the entire rear suspension too as the setup that it will have there is totally different
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on July 31, 2020, 06:45:59 am
The underframe of this build is now mostly two BIG holes, one at the front to take the new engine and front suspension, and one at the back for the rear suspension.

I wish they wouldn't use black styrene for so many of these type of kits, it makes the very DEVIL of a mess on the carpet while cutting and filing! :(

I've had to re-jig the engine as the sump was at the wrong end and clashed with the front crossmember, but it's sorted now. Goodness knows where the mega-complex exhaust system is going to go though, I see large amounts of plastic rod heated up and bent into strange shapes in my future!
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: Old Wombat on July 31, 2020, 07:52:14 am
Engineers! :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on July 31, 2020, 08:01:00 am

Engineers!


We make the world go round.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: McColm on July 31, 2020, 06:38:08 pm
What scale will this be?
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: kitbasher on August 01, 2020, 01:37:50 am

Engineers!


We make the world go round.  ;D ;D ;D

Ha ha ha!  No.
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: tigercat on August 01, 2020, 02:24:05 am
A big car you say .  Does it have long wings ?
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on August 01, 2020, 03:03:27 am
It's 1/24, and it has got long wings already.  ;D

But 'wings' in the car world, meaning the bits of body that go over the wheels. That's 'fenders' in American....
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: kitbasher on August 01, 2020, 03:37:04 am
It's 1/24, and it has got long wings already.  ;D

But 'wings' in the car world, meaning the bits of body that go over the wheels. That's 'fenders' in American....

Thought fenders were bumpers?
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: zenrat on August 01, 2020, 03:47:55 am

Engineers!


We make the world go round.  ;D ;D ;D

Certainly do.  Without engineers you'd be walking.
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on August 01, 2020, 04:12:58 am
It's 1/24, and it has got long wings already.  ;D

But 'wings' in the car world, meaning the bits of body that go over the wheels. That's 'fenders' in American....

Thought fenders were bumpers?


Could be, if there's a way of saying it differently I'm sure the two motor industries will find it.  :banghead:
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: McColm on August 01, 2020, 05:40:07 am
Lincoln or Cadillac they have long fenders and could easily fit your engine inside?
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on August 01, 2020, 06:23:31 am
It's already sorted, and it's NEITHER of them...............  ;D
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: NARSES2 on August 01, 2020, 06:31:45 am

Engineers!


We make the world go round.  ;D ;D ;D

Certainly do.  Without engineers you'd be walking.

Probably be healthier though ?  ;)

Anyway I was told that the reason the world goes around is because in reality it's a giant alien child's pet hamster's wheel. Those who remember and loved the Far Side may know where that came from  :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: zenrat on August 01, 2020, 06:50:39 am
No engineers, no injection moulding machines, no model kits... :-\ :unsure: :angry:


..I was told that the reason the world goes around is because in reality it's a giant alien child's pet hamster's wheel. Those who remember and loved the Far Side may know where that came from  :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Not because someone forgot to tighten up the bolts holding it down?
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: NARSES2 on August 01, 2020, 07:05:35 am
No engineers, no injection moulding machines, no model kits... :-\ :unsure: :angry:


A piece of wood and simple stone tools, hours of fun to be had  :angel: Mind you we'd probably all get fed up carving/chipping the same things as there's be now't else but nature to copy  ;)


..I was told that the reason the world goes around is because in reality it's a giant alien child's pet hamster's wheel. Those who remember and loved the Far Side may know where that came from  :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Not because someone forgot to tighten up the bolts holding it down?

That's probably more Discworld than Far Side  ;D
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on August 01, 2020, 07:51:49 am

Not because someone forgot to tighten up the bolts holding it down?


Bolts? Oh, THOSE bolts!  :o :o

Y'day evening my mate Pete and I were swapping stories about customers who ignored the instructions that said 'Remove shipping bolts before running this machine'. We kept each other going for over an hour.   ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: joncarrfarrelly on August 01, 2020, 03:01:17 pm
It's 1/24, and it has got long wings already.  ;D

But 'wings' in the car world, meaning the bits of body that go over the wheels. That's 'fenders' in American....

Thought fenders were bumpers?


Could be, if there's a way of saying it differently I'm sure the two motor industries will find it.  :banghead:

Fenders are bumpers on boats, here's how to make a tugboat beard fender.  ;D

http://www.frayedknotarts.com/grudinskas.html
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: Rheged on August 02, 2020, 05:39:49 am

Not because someone forgot to tighten up the bolts holding it down?


Bolts? Oh, THOSE bolts!  :o :o

Y'day evening my mate Pete and I were swapping stories about customers who ignored the instructions that said 'Remove shipping bolts before running this machine'. We kept each other going for over an hour.   ;D ;D ;D ;D

Some years ago, our then next door neighbour came banging on our back door.  "The new washing machine has gone wrong on the first wash; HELP!"  Off I went to investigate . It was trying to spin and making a remarkable graunching noise like I've never heard before. When it was drained and unplugged, I found that the people from the shop who'd installed it  had left delivery bolts and packaging inside the machine.   It was replaced free of charge and installed by a proper engineer and not a delivery driver.   As far as I know the machine is still working well.
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on August 02, 2020, 05:47:41 am
Hehehe, EXACTLY the sort of tale Pete and I were swapping.  ;D

He used to be a washing machine and frig service engineer, so he had loads more stories than me,, but mine tended to be more catastrophic!  :o
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: zenrat on August 02, 2020, 05:49:10 am
Playing a record on a record player with the turntable locked down for transport can be entertaining.  Especially if you have a suspended wooden floor and walk heavily.
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on August 02, 2020, 05:52:38 am
Trying to power up a 100 ton tension-torsion test machine with the locking bolts still in place doesn't work too well either.

Most of the high pressure hose fittings fail and dump gallons of oil all over everywhere...............  :o
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: zenrat on August 02, 2020, 05:58:45 am
Trying to power up a 100 ton tension-torsion test machine with the locking bolts still in place doesn't work too well either.

Most of the high pressure hose fittings fail and dump gallons of oil all over everywhere...............  :o

But on the bright side, the bolts passed...
 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: Rheged on August 02, 2020, 06:01:42 am
Most of the high pressure hose fittings fail and dump gallons of oil all over everywhere...............  :o

The multi jet high pressure hydraulic fountain sounds interesting...............from a safe distance.
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on August 02, 2020, 07:17:30 am
Most of the high pressure hose fittings fail and dump gallons of oil all over everywhere...............  :o

The multi jet high pressure hydraulic fountain sounds interesting...............from a safe distance.


I was about 70 miles away at the time, thank goodness, but the customer was only a few miles away from you Mr. Rheged.   ;D
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: Scotaidh on August 02, 2020, 07:55:26 am
Most of the high pressure hose fittings fail and dump gallons of oil all over everywhere...............  :o

The multi jet high pressure hydraulic fountain sounds interesting...............from a safe distance.


I was about 70 miles away at the time, thank goodness, but the customer was only a few miles away from you Mr. Rheged.   ;D

High-pressure hydraulics are nothing to muck about with.  They can cut you in half - literally.  A friend told me that on his sub a shipyard worker stepped off a walkway onto a high-pressure 1/4" hydraulic pipe and cracked a fitting.  The SYW put his foot over the break - I guess he thought his steel-toed boots would protect him.  They didn't - the jet of oil sliced through his boot- and foot-soles quicker than you can say "Jack Robinson" and his lower leg filled (ballooned) up with oil before he felt the pain and started screaming.  He was taken away in an ambulance and lost his leg from the knee down ... Not funny at all.

High-pressure anything - air, steam, oil, water - can be chillingly dangerous.
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on August 02, 2020, 08:22:37 am
Very true.

I've had a few close calls since I started with hydraulics in the mid-60s, and I've known more than one ex-colleague having been killed in such 'accidents'. :(
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: zenrat on August 03, 2020, 03:50:42 am
I've read up on high pressure injection injuries when doing OH&S paperwork for large earthmoving machinery.  It makes for sobering reading.
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on August 03, 2020, 04:22:03 am
Even if the oil itself stays away from you, the bits of a failed fitting or component can be lethal of they come detached under 3000 psi!

I had a quart accumulator come off a less than optimum compression fitting about a foot in front of me, and it shot through the roof of the clean room, further up and through the roof of the main test lab, up around 3-4 floors, and then came back down again, spewing oil from its exhaust port the whole way. Naturally I was drenched, head to toe, but un-injured thank goodness. :(

Mrs_PR19, who had an office on the 4th floor in the next building, phoned me immediately and asked 'Was that you'?  ;D
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: NARSES2 on August 03, 2020, 06:59:07 am

Mrs_PR19, who had an office on the 4th floor in the next building, phoned me immediately and asked 'Was that you'?  ;D

And I bet when you replied "yes" she said "typical"  :angel:

Most of the industrial nasty's in my line of work tended to involve very hot metal, which at least tended not to be very messy, nasty, yes, but almost self cleaning.
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: zenrat on August 04, 2020, 04:39:40 am
Working at the sewage treatment plant on the other hand was very messy and very unpleasant to clean up.
There was one death while I was there.  A maintenance fitter disappeared one morning.  After he didn't turn up for morning tea break the alarm was raised and everyone on site started searching the place.  They found his toolbag on a walkway over a channel which contained sewage that was being treated.
As we ran the pumps out in the harvest precinct we got called in to pump out the channels concerned.  They found his body at the bottom.
It appeared he had somehow slipped between the wires of the safety fencing and fallen in.  The sewage in the channel was in the form of foam so he couldn't float or swim in it but couldn't breathe it.
It must have been a horrible way to die.


Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on August 04, 2020, 04:43:49 am
It doesn't bear thinking about even!  :o

No doubt there was an upgrade to the 'safety fencing' almost immediately?
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: rickshaw on August 05, 2020, 04:20:14 am
When I was working in the ALCOA alumina refinery there were horror stories of people coming to grief in various unpleasant ways.  The one that always stuck with me was the bloke who ended up being "drenched" in Alumina crystals.  They were generally about 1100 degrees C.  He apparently was fried literally.   I hated walking through the refinery, which I had to do to change tapes on the server which was situated in the middle of it.  There were so many potential hazards. :banghead: :banghead:
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: NARSES2 on August 05, 2020, 05:50:12 am
The worst one I know of was of the guy who fell off a gantry into a hot dipped galvanising bath. Literally fell into a bath of molten zinc and climbed out. Died of shock a few minutes latter and some of the lads who witnessed it couldn't work in that part of the plant again. He was a maintenance contractor who took a shortcut  :-\
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on August 09, 2020, 07:06:20 am
Just to show I've not been totally idle while waiting for the P stage of the PSR on the Leeds to dry, here's a teaser pic of just some of the bits of the 'Secret Prototype'.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/4591/ztL5cL.jpg)

VAST amounts of the underframe have been chopped out to suit the new engine and suspension. The engine/gearbox assembly is above the underframe, with the new front suspension above that, with the new rear suspension over to the left.

All I have to do is fabricate enough new underframe to join them all together...............  :-\

Oh yes, and make the dummy bodyshell to go over it all too. I've not even STARTED on that yet, but I have some good ideas about it.  ;)
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: Hobbes on August 09, 2020, 08:22:47 am
is that a Jaguar V12?

 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on August 09, 2020, 09:01:17 am

is that a Jaguar V12?


 :thumbsup:

It might be.................  ;)
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: McColm on August 20, 2020, 01:22:41 am
Forgive me,  but how much bigger is the RR Merlin is engine n size to the V12 shown here?
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on August 20, 2020, 01:56:24 am
A LOT!  :o

Maybe twice as large? A Merlin is a 27 litre engine, almost four times the capacity of the 7 litre V12 I'm using in this model, plus it has a socking great supercharger hanging on the back.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/8949/fdG6Bj.jpg)

That's the wreckage of my 'Wild Thing' drag racing van, similar in size to Fred Zenrat's twin engined Chevy, and it has an Airfix 1/24 Spitfire Merlin engine in the back. It runs via an ex-boat V-drive transmission and the exhausts go out through the roof almost vertically.  ;D

I'll re-build it one day................
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: zenrat on August 20, 2020, 03:03:08 am
A LOT!  :o

Maybe twice as large? A Merlin is a 27 litre engine, almost four times the capacity of the 7 litre V12 I'm using in this model, plus it has a socking great supercharger hanging on the back.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/8949/fdG6Bj.jpg)

That's the wreckage of my 'Wild Thing' drag racing van, similar in size to Fred Zenrat's twin engined Chevy, and it has an Airfix 1/24 Spitfire Merlin engine in the back. It runs via an ex-boat V-drive transmission and the exhausts go out through the roof almost vertically.  ;D

I'll re-build it one day................

Plane engined car GB?
Bloody ridiculous GB?

I'll make a note for next years vote.
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on August 20, 2020, 04:12:53 am
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: McColm on August 20, 2020, 04:14:01 am
A LOT!  :o

Maybe twice as large? A Merlin is a 27 litre engine, almost four times the capacity of the 7 litre V12 I'm using in this model, plus it has a socking great supercharger hanging on the back.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/8949/fdG6Bj.jpg)

That's the wreckage of my 'Wild Thing' drag racing van, similar in size to Fred Zenrat's twin engined Chevy, and it has an Airfix 1/24 Spitfire Merlin engine in the back. It runs via an ex-boat V-drive transmission and the exhausts go out through the roof almost vertically.  ;D

I'll re-build it one day................

Plane engined car GB?
Bloody ridiculous GB?

I'll make a note for next years vote.
Yes that was one of my future builds to put the RR Merlin engine in a Dodge Viper  :banghead:
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on August 24, 2020, 03:23:41 pm
Now I'm back in my 'country home' I've resumed work on the 'Secret Prototype'.

Even MORE of the floor has been hacked away now, but some new floor panels have been glued in place now that I've got the rear suspension assembled. The front end, complete with subframe and hubs and suspension struts, has been glued in place too. To my amazement it lines up a treat so that front wheels are in the centre of the wheelarches!  :o To my mind this is always important with car models, unless the real thing has them grossly un-centred.

I've hacked away the front seats from the interior, leaving a VAST hole to be filled. But as this is a test car it will have proper bucket seats with 4 point harnesses and the passenger's seat will face backwards so they can attend to the instruments. We really did do that back in the 60s, and some firms still do it today. Here's the interior so far.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/3326/Khuzve.jpg)

If I've gone really crazy by the end of the build I may make an instrument package and a UV recorder to sit in the back seat too.  ;D

A long way to go yet mind.
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on August 25, 2020, 05:50:28 am
I don't recall ever having to PSR the inside of a car model's engine compartment before, but I have now.  :o

Because the entire front suspension of the Secret Prototype has been changed the longitudinal underfame members have all been replaced forward of the firewall and will have to match the body shell eventually, so a lot of 'cutting and shutting' of the donor chassis has taken place.

The front end is all now glued in place, complete with steering rack, brake discs, hubs and suspension struts, but the donor underfarme was moulded with open tops to the box sections, and I couldn't live with that. I've boxed them in with 10 thou strips and then PSR'd the edges as in the RW they wouldn't have been sharp as they were pressings.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/9458/aM7U6W.jpg)

Here you can see one side of the new underframe PSR'd and the other side raw, without the boxed in panels.


(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/4892/q8h8R3.jpg)

Here's the complete underside view, showing how well the new front suspension fits in with the original underfame. Amazingly they're EXACTLY the same section and width apart.  :o I've also started boxing in the rear wheel arches and chassis too.
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on August 27, 2020, 06:53:01 am
I never thought I'd be going back to body line drafting at this time of my life, but here I am doing it, albeit in 1:24 scale, and taxing my memory to think back to 1962!

I've been drawing up the panels for the dummy body that will go over the top of the 'Secret Prototype' today, and it's not looking too bad, but pretty ugly, as these things usually are.

Makes a change from cutting and filing odd shaped pieces of styrene anyway.  ;D
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: zenrat on August 28, 2020, 05:52:52 am
Ah-ha!  I've just worked out which kit you sourced the chassis and interior from.
Don't worry,  my lips are sealed.
 :-X  ;)

And knowing that, it's become even more intriguing.

Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on August 28, 2020, 07:21:33 am
Curses, I've been rumbled.  ;D

Fred got it dead right too, some excellent detective work there.  :thumbsup:

Here's a deliberately blurred pic of the dummy body, as far as I've got anyway.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/2517/Umwapw.jpg)
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: joncarrfarrelly on August 28, 2020, 03:02:57 pm
The earlier of Frank Lloyd Wright's car designs.  :wacko: :thumbsup:  ;)

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_g6FSxDd2Aic/S-qhcKcKJNI/AAAAAAAAALI/GlUfipY0DWg/s1600/Frank_Lloyd_Wright.jpg)
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on August 28, 2020, 04:02:48 pm
A certain angular similarity there, yes.  ;D
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: zenrat on August 29, 2020, 05:38:32 am
As far as car designers go, Frank Lloyd Wright makes a good architect...

 ;)
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on August 31, 2020, 06:36:08 am
.....and I make a good bridge designer..........  ;)

The construction of the dummy body shell is complete now, but it'll need a bit of PSR and gap filling before it's worth showing on here. That won't give away the source vehicle though as it looks NOTHING like the 'inner car', more like a fugitive from a 'Mad Max' movie.  ;D
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on September 02, 2020, 06:40:48 am

The construction of the dummy body shell is complete now,


To quote Donald Sutherland in 'Kellye's Heroes', 'No it ain't....................' :(

Having assembled the dummy shell over the proper body, I now find it won't fit down low enough because the single curvature dummy roof won't lie properly over the double curvature real roof. A predictable problem when I was building the dummy shell from flat sheet of course, but even the hair dryer treatment won't curve the dummy roof enough to make it fit.

So the dummy shell now has the world's largest sunroof, as I cut most of it away as I'll have to build it up in layers to allow some extra room in the centre.

If it was easy everyone would be doing I suppose............... :(
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on September 02, 2020, 01:47:10 pm
Now it's done, enough to fit properly anyway. It's not perfect, but these camo bodies never were anyway.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/3990/85EuPg.jpg)

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/4528/y6TSki.jpg)

As you can see, it's quite deliberately ugly, and looks nothing like the real car that lives underneath it, but you'll have to trust me on that as you ain't seeing the real one for some time yet.  ;D

It's all made from one A4 sheet of black 10 thou styrene, and I almost used all of it, but there are a couple of scraps left over.  :o
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on September 05, 2020, 05:05:14 am
PSRing a body shell that's only made from 10 thou styrene is a bit fraught, to say the least.  :-\

It's very easy to sand clean through the joints or panels if you're not careful, and I've done so a couple of times already.  :banghead:

So I'm doing a patching job between the PSR sessions, not something I enjoy, but it's got to be done. The initial painting is approaching though, albeit slowly.
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on September 06, 2020, 02:50:33 pm
I've finished the PSR on the dummy bodyshell now, and it only needed four sessions.  :o But then it's meant to look rough and ready, and it does.  ;D

It's had 2-3 coats of grey primer now, and that forms the basis of the colour scheme. The second colour coat is drying overnight, after EXTENSIVE masking, and the third and last coat will go on tomorrow, after more masking.

You won't BELIEVE what it will look like when it's done, and I'll post pics of it anyway, as it's nothing like the real car that will live underneath it.  ;D
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: loupgarou on September 07, 2020, 12:06:13 am
But are you putting the real car body underneath, or we'll only get the dummy body?
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on September 07, 2020, 04:29:12 am
Oh yes, the whole car will be hidden underneath. Complete with experimental engine, transmission, new front and rear suspension, and test instrumentation etc.

All modelled from my memory when I was doing just that in the 60s.  ;D
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on September 07, 2020, 05:23:35 am
Also available in black............  ;D

Er, it was in black already, you may be thinking?

Yes it was, but that was black styrene, and this is black paint, over the top of two other colours as well, and heavily masked too. You can just about see some of the masking in the pic.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/7371/opvUxh.jpg)
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on September 07, 2020, 06:03:43 am

Also available in black............  ;D


.....and in grey and white as well.  ;D

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/2061/0rc4kD.jpg)

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/8114/HtJLrL.jpg)

And it's meant to look scrappy too, with overuns and chipped paint etc. The RW ones were just like that.
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: McColm on September 07, 2020, 08:58:01 am
Dazzle ship pattern  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: JayBee on September 07, 2020, 09:17:39 am
I thought that it would look more like the prewar P-51s that were tried in a dazzle pattern that was rather more pointed than that.
That having been said, I do like it.
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on September 07, 2020, 09:54:15 am
On a second attempt (not that it's likely of course  ;D) I'd have less of the grey showing and more white, but it's good enough for Government work.
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on September 08, 2020, 08:56:25 am
Now that the dummy body is pretty well done, just a few detail bits to add, I've moved back to the main car structure.

The interior bucket is shown at the bottom of the pic, which is now boxed in and has the instrumentation package located on the back seat, the signal conditioners on top and the recorder underneath. It's also had a gear box and propshaft tunnel added too, which weren't present on the original kit.

The underframe is shown above it, now with the front wheel arches and suspension struts boxed in, and also has the vestige of a propshaft tunnel at the rear.

Those of who who build Brit prop models may note the preponderance of AZ MB6 parts here, the propshaft tunnels and suspension fairings were drop tanks from that kit and the gear box tunnel is half of the nose too.  ;D

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/8985/McBqOr.jpg)
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on September 09, 2020, 05:56:32 am
Whiffing a car is MUCH more difficult than whiffing an aircraft.  :-\

There's loads more nooks and crannies to PSR on the underfame and body than on an airframe, and some parts are just not worth the bother. Does anyone KNOW what it should look like anyway? And it's a prototype mule so the manufacturers could have done anything to it, even this manufacturer.  ;D

I've got the 2nd coat of primer on the underframe after a nominal PSR session, and it may be the last one prior to the basic colour. I've also sanded and primed the body too, and that's looking pretty good, complex though it is.

This'll be last day of work on the Secret Prototype until Sunday as I'm headed home for a few days to do other things tomorrow.
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on September 10, 2020, 01:27:21 am
LOTS of spraying and masking last night.

The underframe was sprayed matt black and then satin coated (I don't have any satin black with me...), the interior bucket has been primered, which was a big mistake as I can see all the problems now, but with luck you won't be able to because of the dummy bodyshell and the smoked glass windows.  ;)

The proper body shell was primered and the lower colour sprayed, and then masked off and the upper colour sprayed.

Sadly the latter isn't as good as it could be and will need some patching and re-spraying :( but progress is being made.

I'll bring some bits and pieces back from home with me on Sunday to help do the engine and I'll have enough to finish it all off then.
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: ChernayaAkula on September 10, 2020, 03:29:00 pm
<...> It's not perfect, but these camo bodies never were anyway.<...>

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/3990/85EuPg.jpg)

<...> deliberately ugly <...>

The 1980s' Lincoln designers would like to have a word with you!   :dalek:

;)
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on September 10, 2020, 04:04:09 pm

The 1980s' Lincoln designers would like to have a word with you!   :dalek:

;)


There's a queue, they'll have to stand in line.  ;D ;)
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: ChernayaAkula on September 11, 2020, 01:01:09 pm
 ;D
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on September 18, 2020, 06:51:28 am
After a 'My get up and go has got up and went' break I got going again on the Secret Prototype today.

Much more masking and spraying was needed to correct the errors I made on the first masking session of the proper body shell, and that looks a lot better now. It'll need some light touch ups, and application of the Molotow Chrome Pen before it's finished, but it's not looking too bad so far.

The interior has been sprayed with the upholstery colour, and that'll need some MORE masking before I spray the carpet colour.  :-\

I intend (A fine word, but well over-used in this game...) to start painting the engine and rear suspension later today, to which end I bought my entire stock of metallic paints back from home last Sunday, and there's a LOT of them.  :o

Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on September 20, 2020, 06:26:57 am
I've been painting the rear suspension and engine of the secret prototype, using lots of different metallic shades, some of which are from Citadel's wargame paints series.

They're lovely paints, lots of various metallic shades, just what I need for this job, but I wish they wouldn't keep changing the names of the colours every year or so!  :banghead: It makes it very difficult to match a shade with one that I've already used, and whoever thought up the names in the first place?  :o 'Gunmetal' I can live with, that's just what it looks like, but 'Ironbreaker' and 'Rune Steel'? ??????

My brain hurts............
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: NARSES2 on September 20, 2020, 07:06:19 am
but I wish they wouldn't keep changing the names of the colours every year or so!  :banghead: It makes it very difficult to match a shade with one that I've already used, and whoever thought up the names in the first place?  :o 'Gunmetal' I can live with, that's just what it looks like, but 'Ironbreaker' and 'Rune Steel'? ??????

My brain hurts............

I have exactly the same problem Kit  :banghead:

Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: Steel Penguin on September 20, 2020, 07:55:42 am
the Citadel paints change name when they get a different manufacturer,  :banghead: it means that they can have colour changes and not worry,  the names are actually quite clever, as they can be trademarked / copy write ( whichever it is) as a already existing name or generic name isn't defendable.   certain names will be due to the paint being the main one for a troop or army type, the Space Wolf grey, being the main colour of the armour that the Space Wolf chapter of space marines wear is an easy one.
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on September 20, 2020, 03:41:41 pm
At LAST some progress on the main assembly. The rear suspension's now in place, all painted up properly. It just needs the addition of a couple of trailing arm traction bars and that end will be done.

The engine's painted up now, but it'll need its exhaust manifolds added before I can glue it in place as they're pretty complex.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/6146/Vs70K6.jpg)
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: zenrat on September 21, 2020, 04:02:24 am
Have you used the front and rear suspension from the engine donor or is it from a different kit?


Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on September 21, 2020, 04:58:01 am
The rear suspension is from the same donor kit as the engine, but with lots of stuff from the third donor kit added to it. The third donor kit supplied all the front suspension and some of the underframe mods too.

Have you worked them out yet?  ;D
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: zenrat on September 21, 2020, 05:21:03 am
Well, you've told me what the body and engine are from.  Don't know about the front suspension and under frame though.  I can't see it too clearly.
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on September 21, 2020, 05:49:46 am
Here's a blow-up of the first pic I posted on this thread, a tad blurred but you might figure out what it's from. This is before I cut and trimmed it to fit the main underframe though.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/4932/aEZ5r2.jpg)
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: NARSES2 on September 21, 2020, 06:43:51 am
the Citadel paints change name when they get a different manufacturer,  :banghead: it means that they can have colour changes and not worry,  the names are actually quite clever, as they can be trademarked / copy write ( whichever it is) as a already existing name or generic name isn't defendable.   

Fair enough, but could they keep the shop staff up to date with changes. I've had a couple of conversations when the assistant had no idea what the colour I wanted was currently being called  :banghead:
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on September 22, 2020, 04:09:19 am
A rather fundamental problem has arisen with the Secret Prototype, the engine won't fit..............  :banghead:

It did originally, even the engine mounts from the third donor kit fitted the engine from the second donor kit, but when I fitted the exhausts last night they foul the forward underframe, but I have a cunning plan.  ;)

With a 60 degree V12 engine, one with outward exhausts, the exhaust ports inevitably point downwards and so do the manifolds, but if I swap the RH and LH manifolds and invert them, they'll point upwards and therefore won't foul the underframe!  ;D

All I have to do is get them off, and I superglued them in place......................  :-\
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: zenrat on September 22, 2020, 04:21:59 am
A rather fundamental problem has arisen with the Secret Prototype, the engine won't fit...(T)he exhausts...foul the forward underframe...

Yep, been there.  Annoying isn't it.
IME when swapping model car engines, 9 times out of 10 the engines original exhausts are going to hit something.

Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: Hobbes on September 22, 2020, 06:21:14 am
A rather fundamental problem has arisen with the Secret Prototype, the engine won't fit..............  :banghead:

It did originally, even the engine mounts from the third donor kit fitted the engine from the second donor kit, but when I fitted the exhausts last night they foul the forward underframe, but I have a cunning plan.  ;)

With a 60 degree V12 engine, one with outward exhausts, the exhaust ports inevitably point downwards and so do the manifolds, but if I swap the RH and LH manifolds and invert them, they'll point upwards and therefore won't foul the underframe!  ;D

All I have to do is get them off, and I superglued them in place......................  :-\

Stick the parts in the freezer for a while. That tends to make superglue brittle.

In a pinch, you could make new manifolds. A simple manifold design like this one is pretty easy to make from some round stock:

(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0991/5230/products/46-40024f1600_1.1472862675_1200x1200.jpg)
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on September 22, 2020, 06:56:13 am

In a pinch, you could make new manifolds. A simple manifold design like this one is pretty easy to make from some round stock:


I may have to do that, yes.

With the manifolds in the upswept mode they come very close to the twin air-cleaners and will be the very devil to hook up to the main exhaust pipes and silencers etc.

Thanks for the freezer tip, it worked a treat.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on September 22, 2020, 07:57:27 am
Great idea that Harro, thanks so much.  :thumbsup:

There was no way the original manifolds would fit in the engine bay upside down, large though it is, so I sorted out some styrene rod and cut a log manifold for the LH side, and it works a treat. I'll need to do some rod bending to make it match with the rest of the car, but I have to do that anyway as the original underframe only has one silencer and pipe.
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: joncarrfarrelly on September 22, 2020, 11:31:52 am
I like this configuration.  ;D

(https://primotipo.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/ford-indy-engine.jpg)
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: JayBee on September 22, 2020, 11:39:15 am
One is most intrigued by what is going to appear in this build.
A big front engined rear wheelrd drive creation, hidden in a plstic sheet body.
Hm!
Strangeness certainly lurcks here.
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on September 22, 2020, 02:10:27 pm

I like this configuration.  ;D


I do too, but it'd never work on this car with the pipes sticking out through the bonnet. (hood....) Plus it's a DOHC engine and the one I'm using is only an SOHC. A twin cam engine wouldn't work in this car, the engine's width would limit the turning circle.

Is that an Indy Ford engine, like they used in the Lotus 38?



Strangeness certainly lurcks here.


Strangeness is ALWAYS with us here Jim.  ;D
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: Rheged on September 22, 2020, 02:31:27 pm


Strangeness certainly lurcks here.


Strangeness is ALWAYS with us here Jim.  ;D

To which one can only reply "Hurrah!!!  Thank goodness for that"
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: joncarrfarrelly on September 22, 2020, 08:48:07 pm
Yep, it's the Ford Indy 255 4-cam.
The old 1/25th MPC Gurney Olsonite Eagle kit includes one as an engine option,
the other engine is the Gurney-Weslake V-8. No V-12 unfortunately.
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on September 23, 2020, 03:48:55 am
I've got a couple of Ford 255 Indy engines in various kits. That Olsonite Eagle one you mentioned, the original IMC Ford GT included a 255 as one of its options, and I have a couple of the IMC Lotus 38s as well.

Lovely looking engine, and I recall hearing Bruce Mclaren's M2B F1 car, which had a 3.0 litre version of the same engine. It sounded GLORIOUS, but sadly hadn't the strength to pull the skin off a rice pudding compared to the other 3.0 litre cars of the period. :(
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on September 23, 2020, 08:17:19 am
I've taken then irrevocable step now and glued the engine in place.  :-\

That was after the last bit of detail painting and making sure that it did still fit of course. The two white plugs you can see in the underframe were where the other exhausts would have exited had they fitted, so I've had to re-drill the holes a few mm back to link with the updated log manifolds.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/7311/mtHWAQ.jpg)

I've also re-sprayed the proper bodyshell and it just needs a few touch ups and a coat of gloss varnish and it'll be ready to add the interior. LOTS more to do on the interior though. :(
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on September 23, 2020, 02:33:45 pm
Slotting a big V12 engine into a car that wasn't designed for something that big requires a much more efficient exhaust system, specially when it's attached to a not so efficient log manifold. And when the kit underframe only has one silencer and exhaust pipe, something had to be done.

My mate Pete, him with the teeny-weeny lathe, also has a heat gun (actually he's probably go everything you'd ever need in the tools line... :thumbsup:) and with the aid of that I've bent up some new pipes from styrene rod, and they'll connect to the manifolds too. I had to scratchbuild a new silencer for the other side of the car, but that was just a layered block made from 10 thou with some end caps glued in place.

Pics tomorrow when I've connected it all to the manifolds hopefully.

The proper body's varnished nicely now too, and it looks pretty good. I'll add some chrome trim with the Molotow pen tomorrow, with luck.
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: zenrat on September 24, 2020, 04:07:02 am
 :thumbsup:

Not having a heat gun I use steam to bend my exhausts.

Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on September 24, 2020, 08:13:16 am
Much though I'd like to, I'm not going to have enough time or space to pipe and wire the engine compartment of the Secret Prototype. :(

I'll install some water pipes for the radiator etc. as that would look silly perched out the in front not connected to anything, but the throttle linkage on this engine will be invisible anyway under the large intake plenum chamber and stuff. Plus the ignition wires are hidden in the long tubes above the exhaust logs as well, which helps.

The exhaust system is now installed, and what a job THAT was getting the various parts to match up and stay glued in place! I've got to grind off the single tail pipe yet, and then add the new twin tail pipes, probably in the middle.

That's the 'boy racer' in me coming to the fore.  ;)
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on September 24, 2020, 12:50:53 pm
Much progress on the exhausts today.  ;D

Here's the view of the engine from the rear, the white bits at the back are the styrene rod that I heated up and bent to fit, eventually. The big white blob on the top is the fuel injection system's plenum chamber, made from some styrene sheet and an old air cleaner from an AMT Ford Galaxie kit.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/9080/2X5eBK.jpg)


And here's the underside showing the new white pipes down one side, with the scratchbuilt silencer half way along, plus the two tail pipes, right on the centre line.  ;D Wholly inappropriate you'll think when you see the final build, I'm sure.....

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/2320/juPdGd.jpg)
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: joncarrfarrelly on September 24, 2020, 04:09:00 pm

And here's the underside showing the new white pipes down one side, with the scratchbuilt silencer half way along, plus the two tail pipes, right on the centre line.  ;D Wholly inappropriate you'll think when you see the final build, I'm sure.....

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/2320/juPdGd.jpg)

Will it have the obligatory 5lb coffee-can chrome exhaust tips?

(https://dragtimes.com/images-classifieds-large/BMW-E46-Oversized-3-Exhaust-Tip-Set-of-2-304-Stain-for-sale_262854820982.jpg)

Of course I like this rendition:
(http://www.angelfire.com/theforce/gladesw68/coffee_two.JPG)
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on September 25, 2020, 03:48:43 am
Hehehe, they'll definitely be chromed, yes.   ;D

Thanks to my Molotow pen, which has been MOST impressive elsewhere on the model.
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: zenrat on September 25, 2020, 04:05:53 am
We call 'em Wombat Hole exhausts...

Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on September 29, 2020, 04:25:49 am
Now I've got all the bits I can finish off the interior of the Secret Prototype.

Here's the instrument package strapped down on the back seat for the observer, him in the rearwards facing seat, to observe. That's a 4 channel signal conditioning unit on the top and an SE Instruments 6 channel UV recorder underneath, for those not into instrumentation packages.  ;D

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/1656/g7wWSz.jpg)

Now to make up the seat belt harnesses and that'll be the interior done.
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on September 29, 2020, 05:35:31 am
 :banghead: :banghead:

The 'seat belt' kit that I bought for this model has an amazingly wonderful set of etched parts and some seat belt material. Except the material is about 3.5 mm wide and the slots in the etched parts are only 2.5 mm wide............

If you ever think of trimming some 3.5 mm seat belt material down to 2.5 mm wide, DON'T!   :angry:

Luckily there's a lot of it to play with.
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: McColm on September 29, 2020, 08:01:48 am
Will the engine be exposed or hidden by the hood/bonnet as you seem to put a lot of work into it, it would be a pity if it was hidden from view?
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on September 29, 2020, 09:04:30 am
Yes, you'll be able to see much of the engine, but it's a pretty narrow bonnet.
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on October 02, 2020, 03:41:06 pm
Now the interior is completely finished, thank goodness. Here it is with the seat belts attached (naturally to BS Au48 approved anchorages...) and the instrumentation strapped down firmly.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/8885/bYxSlC.jpg)

I'm doing the final touch-ups on the proper bodyshell now and I should be able to start final assembly in a day or so.

And about time too!
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on October 03, 2020, 12:20:32 pm
With the proper body just about finished, I glued the windows in position. The windscreen and rear window went in nicely, but the side windows aren't the same shape as the frames, by quite a margin!  :banghead:

With some judicious filing I've managed to get them in place, but in a couple of places the edge of the window is right on the frame, no tolerance at all.

Didn't they ever build one of these kits after they moulded them?   :-\
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on October 03, 2020, 04:01:21 pm
Having got all four windows glued in place, with quite a bit of difficulty ensuring their edges weren't visible, I then found the interior won't fit!  :banghead:

There's no way of knowing this beforehand as you can't test fit the windows, and you can't glue them in place until you've done all the frame painting. It wouldn't have fitted even if I'd built the thing OOB either, grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.  :angry:

I had to carefully carve chunks off my nicely painted and trimmed interior to get it to sit deep enough so I can install the underframe tomorrow.

Sometimes you can really go OFF a model!  :banghead:
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: zenrat on October 03, 2020, 04:12:26 pm
...Didn't they ever build one of these kits after they moulded them?   :-\

It often appears they didn't.
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: buzzbomb on October 03, 2020, 05:00:25 pm
Pretty sure the perserverence will pay off
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on October 06, 2020, 06:57:00 am
Got to 'The Irrevocable Step' last night and glued the underframe into the proper bodyshell, added the pre-cut induction and radiator pipes and then started to glue the wheels on.

The front two went fine, as did the RH rear one, and the car sat there nicely level, but then I tried to glue the LH rear one on......

It was MILES out! About 2mm too far rearwards and 3 mm too high! :(

I checked my carefully built rear suspension assembly and found the whole thing tilted slightly to one side, so Plan A was to separate the traction bars from the body and bend it level before gluing the traction bars back to lock it in place.

WRONG!

The whole darn assembly came off in my hand while trying to re-align it.  :banghead:

At least it'll be easy to glue the RH rear wheel on, and then I re-glue the whole thing back, correctly this time........  :-\
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: zenrat on October 07, 2020, 04:53:11 am
It is for that reason that I often leave fitting the rear axle until after I have assembled the rest of the car.  I fit the front wheels to the car, fit the rear wheels to the axle and then attaching the rear axle with 5 minute epoxy, sit the whole thing on my glass plate so the glue dries with all four on the floor.
This way warped parts or fit issues won't cause it to three wheel.

Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on October 07, 2020, 05:02:11 am
That's the method I'm going to use to repair the current disaster Fred. Thanks for confirming it's the way to go.  :thumbsup:

In this case I had to fit it beforehand though as the underframe was essentially in two halves and I needed the rear suspension in place to act as a datum for the rear half. It looks like something has warped after I assembled it though. :(
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on October 07, 2020, 02:46:25 pm
The proper body's all complete now, apart from a small bit of paint trim that I can't do until I've fitted the dummy body. That's a big relief, it was driving me NUTS trying to get that rear suspension back in place.

The whole thing's not as good as it could have been, there's lots of details that could have been done better and some that could be tidied up, but frankly I've had enough of it by now. I'll be glad to get that dummy body tidied up and finished off, probably tomorrow, and then I'll have done with it.
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on October 08, 2020, 01:46:47 pm
It's done!  :thumbsup:

Well, I think it is. I may need to do a small bit of paint trimming after I've finally fitted the dummy body, but not very much. Otherwise it's all sorted.

Just about to do a mege pic session and I'll post some later tonight with luck.

Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: Rick Lowe on October 08, 2020, 02:04:24 pm
Yay, all will finally be revealed and I can have my 'Quizzyosity' assuaged!  ;D
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....DONE!
Post by: PR19_Kit on October 08, 2020, 03:17:35 pm
Warning, this'll be very pic heavy, mainly because I hardly posted any of it during the build.

Here's some pics of the 'Secret Prototype' as it would have appeared on the road.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/8679/SSeidH.jpg)

A general view, not the prettiest car ever made....


(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/4986/YutS2s.jpg)

From the rear you can just get a hint of the real car underneath. Note the trade plates, held on with the obligatory MEGA elastic bands.


(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/6423/DZwQ72.jpg)

From the front it's singularly menacing, as well it should be with the MONSTER engine! Note that both front and rear lights of the real car shine through holes in the dummy body, the but the dummy's indicators are separate items.


(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/1048/huapIJ.jpg)

The rear view mirrors have to be mounted on the dummy body, the proper body doesn't have any fitted.

And what is it underneath?

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/3175/AqTisV.jpg)

It's a Rolls Royce!  ;D

A 1960 Silver Cloud II to be precise, but used by RR's Experimental Dept. as a test mule for the forthcoming V12 engined Silver Seraph in the mid '90s. The Silver Lady, RR's 'Spirt of Ecstasy' is removed when the dummy body is in place of course. They keep her in the glove compartment...  ;)


(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/2981/73rB3O.jpg)

A general view, which still has the classic lines of the Silver Cloud. Almost none of the mods can be seen from this view.


(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/7862/Lqqtv7.jpg)

From the rear there's a hint that all may not be as it seems because of the twin, central exhaust pipes.


(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/4645/t3jyBH.jpg)

Looking inside, the test instruments can be seen mounted on the rear seats with their operator in the rearward facing front passenger seat.


(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/6484/hV2Ank.jpg)

The engine bay still uses the Silver Cloud's twin bonnet doors, revealing the big 7 litre V12 hidden inside. The big silver pipes and the block on top are part of the fuel injection system.


(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/407/kWLLA3.jpg)

More of the engine bay.


(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/48/kovaYw.jpg)

And finally the underframe from below showing the independent front and rear suspensions and the transmission.

The Back story is here :- https://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php?topic=48427.msg899317#msg899317 (https://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php?topic=48427.msg899317#msg899317)


Oh yes, the black trim line round the lower side of the proper bodyshell is because the dummy body just would NOT fit down low enough, and I had to cut a large hole in the roof and box that in, as I mentioned a long time ago. So the b lack trim was to hide the proper body's colours with the dummy body in place.

We did exactly that with real disguise bodies back when I was in the industry in the 60s, so it's based on fact, like the rear facing passenger seat.


Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on October 08, 2020, 03:33:56 pm
More stuff on the build.

The three kits I used for this were the 1/24 Minicraft Rolls Royce Silver Cloud II for the main body and interior, the Tamiya Jaguar XJR9 Le Mans winner to provide the V12 engine and rear suspension, and the Revell Mustang GT which provided the front subframe and suspension and steering.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/5115/lISOa6.jpg)


I'm going to use the body of the XJR9 for a 1/24 slot racer, and the Mustang already provided some bits and pieces for my son-in-law's Mustang that I built last year.

I used lots of extra bits and pieces, like competition seats and belts from Hiroboy, plus all that stuff that we Whiffers just have lying about of course. The paint all came from Halfords, the main body colour was Ford Dove Grey and the roof, bonnet and boot Vauxhall Regatta Blue. All the detail paints were various acrylics (which I'm starting to like...) because of their swift drying properties. Plus the Molotow Chrome Pens, which made it all possible really. The chrome side strips and window frames would have been almost impossible for me without them...

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/3299/AljAEI.jpg)


Masking the window frames was on e SERIOUS job, as you can see below!

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/2048/EOAKR2.jpg)

I'm glad that's over and done with, I was really losing the will to live in the last few days, but it's sorted now.

Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: buzzbomb on October 08, 2020, 03:50:49 pm
Well, well..that was a surprise.
Nicely done all around
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: scooter on October 08, 2020, 04:47:15 pm
 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: Rick Lowe on October 08, 2020, 06:56:24 pm
Kewl!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: rickshaw on October 08, 2020, 08:44:25 pm
Very interesting.  Very British of course.   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: McColm on October 09, 2020, 12:19:57 am
Well done,  that's the same model I'm using except I have sliced the top off and removed the boot/trunk. I'll try and post a photo so you can see the hatchet job I have done so far.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: Hobbes on October 09, 2020, 01:24:07 am
This is excellent, I really like the amount of detail you've put into it.
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on October 09, 2020, 03:42:09 am
I'm glad the big surprise worked as planned.  ;D ;D

And just in case someone comes up with JMN type comments on the trade plates '101 TU' really WAS a Rolls Royce trade plate, 'TU' being the letters for Cheshire at the time. Nowadays there's a different system I believe, only using numbers, but still with red letters on white background.

And there's no truth in the rumour that you can't be nabbed for speeding or other misdeeds while displaying trade plates.

Don't ask me how I know this.................  :-\
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: McColm on October 09, 2020, 04:39:03 am
I'm glad the big surprise worked as planned.  ;D ;D

And just in case someone comes up with JMN type comments on the trade plates '101 TU' really WAS a Rolls Royce trade plate, 'TU' being the letters for Cheshire at the time. Nowadays there's a different system I believe, only using numbers, but still with red letters on white background.

And there's no truth in the rumour that you can't be nabbed for speeding or other misdeeds while displaying trade plates.

Don't ask me how I know this.................  :-\
Don't I know it. I was a trade plate driver.
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: zenrat on October 10, 2020, 04:12:22 am
Very good Kit.
I note that even with a 7 litre V12 there is room for a mechanic to ride along under the bonnet to make running adjustments.

Question.  Does the fake body have to be removed for people to get in and out?
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on October 10, 2020, 08:55:42 am

Very good Kit.
I note that even with a 7 litre V12 there is room for a mechanic to ride along under the bonnet to make running adjustments.

Question.  Does the fake body have to be removed for people to get in and out?


Thanks Fred, and yes, I was surprised how much space there was under there once it was all in position. And it's not set back at all, there's about a scale 3-4" between the block and the firewall.

As an aside, when Jags put their 4 cam V12 into a MkX mule the turning circle was VAST! Maybe 30-40 FEET! Hardly surprising the production twelve was the single cam version, the one that I used in the model.

No, the fake body has doors, but after I'd scribed them and painted it they were totally invisible. :(

On the RW mules the doors were usually attached to the inner doors and the panel gaps were measured in feet..............  :-\
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: zenrat on October 10, 2020, 04:56:50 pm
Thanks Kit.
You could I suppose have the fake bodyshell doors hingeing normally and attached to the inner shell doors by linkages.  But it would be added complication and not really necessary.
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: Hobbes on October 11, 2020, 12:59:06 am


As an aside, when Jags put their 4 cam V12 into a MkX mule the turning circle was VAST! Maybe 30-40 FEET! Hardly surprising the production twelve was the single cam version, the one that I used in the model.


Performance must have been amazing with the 4-cam V12...
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on October 11, 2020, 02:37:12 am
I don't think it was the full race 4 cam V12 that they put in the back of the XJ13, but it certainly scorched around MIRA pretty quickly!  :o

Watching them get it out and back into their garage there was a hoot though.  ;D
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: McColm on October 12, 2020, 02:14:15 am
I spent ages looking for the wing mirrors in the kit only to find out there isn't any. I'm sure yours would have been folded when it had the false body attached.
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: PR19_Kit on October 12, 2020, 03:19:20 am
Back when the Silver Cloud was current, in the early 60s, wing mirrors usually WERE on the front wings, way out in front of the A post line by the windscreen. Some US market Clouds had them on the A pillar line, but that wasn't common on the UK cars.

Have you noticed that the kit doesn't have any provision for number plates either? Clouds usually had a massive chrome frame about half way up the boot lid to take the rear plate, and a front plate in the usual place right in the middle of the front bumper, but the kit has neither. :(
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: McColm on October 12, 2020, 03:57:47 am
I've got the same kit but didn't recognise the parts,  I even have a second one in the stash.  With the removal of the bumpers on the front of the model a natural mountain for the number plate is clearly visible.
Title: Re: The 'Secret' prototype.....
Post by: McColm on October 16, 2020, 01:51:14 am
You should see what I have done to the Silver Cloud II on my blog pages 101-102.