What if

GROUP BUILDS => In The Navy G.B. 2020 => Topic started by: PR19_Kit on March 27, 2020, 03:21:45 pm

Title: Mirage F1P
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 27, 2020, 03:21:45 pm
Yes, this the third build I'm starting for this GB, and the other two are nowhere near finished. It's my 'shotgun approach' to GB builds, if I start enough of them there's a good chance that one will prove trouble free and actually get finished. Yeah, right...……………  ;D

This one's  Dassault Mirage F1P of Flotille 16F of the Aeronavale.

Oh, the Aeronavale didn't fly Mirages F1s? Well in your world maybe they didn't, but in mine they did, OK? The P on the end means it's a photo-recce version, which even the Armee de l'Air didn't fly either, but this is WhiffWorld.

The kit's another Special Hobby one, (I must be a glutton for punishment after the cockpit problems on the Barracuda!) and as usual SH don't use 1 part where 27 would work better, at least in their eyes. There's also LOADS of parts not used in this 2 seater trainer. The kit's like a Revell Tornado, it's actually a weapons set with a gratis airframe! I'm sure I'll use a lot more of the stores than SH intend,  they only tell you to use the drop tanks. Mind you I've no idea what many of the stores are so I'll be asking questions later I'm sure.

As this is a PR bird it needs cameras, right? And as no Mirage F1 ever carried any, for a dedicated PR version anyway, I've got a resin camera nose and belly pod to stick onto it from an Etendard IVP conversion that I just happened to have to hand.

It'll follow Fred Zenrat's technique of naval aircraft modelling by me scribing wing fold marks and adding a hook. Nothing more will be needed really.

And why is it a two seater? I just like the look of the 2 seater Mirage F1s.

(http://imageshack.com/a/img921/7448/VLttSR.jpg)

Here's the obligatory box lid pic.


(http://imageshack.com/a/img923/7213/Wg2Tjp.jpg)

And here's the first steps of the build, jet pipe and nose wheel bay added to one fuselage half, wings assembled and a tiny bit of the cockpit done too.
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: loupgarou on March 27, 2020, 03:30:14 pm
It looks so short! The fin separate from the fuselage is another SH's trick tannoy modellers?
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 27, 2020, 03:41:04 pm
It is short, the F1's a remarkably small aeroplane.

The kit has three different fins, depending on the version modelled, which is why they moulded it separately I guess.
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 27, 2020, 04:17:16 pm
Actually it turns out the Armee de l'Air did fly a PR version of the F1, the F1CR, but the camera bay was just a small bump on the underside of the fuselage, hardly noticeable.

The F1Ps were very obviously PR types with that angular nose.
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: comrade harps on March 27, 2020, 07:04:59 pm
I love the Miarge F.1, but haven't built a two-seater. A beautiful looking plane. Many decades ago I had a fighter plane poster on my bedroom wall and my girlfriend at the time picked the F.1C as her favourite.

Can't wait to see what you come up with.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: Tophe on March 28, 2020, 01:17:54 am
I just like the look of the 2 seater Mirage F1s.
I love also the 2-seat version of the F1. :wub:
Will you have a two-wheel nose undercarriage like on the navy Jaguar (if I remember well)?
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: NARSES2 on March 28, 2020, 02:05:24 am
I to didn't realise how small it was, attractive airplane though  :thumbsup: Probably wouldn't need much of the wing to fold ? Perhaps just the tips ?
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: zenrat on March 28, 2020, 02:13:15 am
There are three parts to by technique.  The third is paint it blue.  Don't forget that one.
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 28, 2020, 05:32:13 am

Will you have a two-wheel nose undercarriage like on the navy Jaguar (if I remember well)?


That's a good idea Tophe, thanks for that, and I'll try it if I can find a spare nosewheel.  :thumbsup:

I'm 120 miles away from my Loft at the moment so supplies are a tad limited.



There are three parts to by technique.  The third is paint it blue.  Don't forget that one.


Yes Fred, I forgot that bit, sorry.

I'll figure out a suitable scheme with blue in it.
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 28, 2020, 10:08:32 am
With the amount of extra bits that you don't use in this kit you can actually build any variant of the RW Mirage F1.

They actually include the bits to build the land based Mirage F1CR PR version, and I may use some of them in this version.

They also include some resin wingtip missile rails, but why I have no idea as there are no less than FOUR styrene wingtip rails included on the main sprues, and they're better than the resin ones.  :o
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: DogfighterZen on March 28, 2020, 01:54:05 pm
Gotta get me one of those Mirage kits... Looking forward for this build!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: Gondor on March 28, 2020, 03:32:13 pm
Looking forward to immageshack allowing me to see the progress so far

Gondor
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 28, 2020, 03:33:06 pm
Lots of progress on the F1P today. I got the rear cockpit installed, complete with its four piece ejection seat (Why?) and it's a different seat to the front one too, very odd. I did a quick check to see how it balanced and I reckoned it'd work with NO nose weight, but I stuffed a couple of pieces of Blu-Tak in there anyway, just in case. Then I glued the two fuselage halves together. They fitted very nicely and I was quite impressed with SH's design work.

After that lot had dried off I started the major part of the conversion, sawing off the spikey nose of the F1 and installing the blunter camera nose from the Etendard IVP. The IVP nose isn't the same cross section as the F1, it's much squarer, but nothing a big file and some PSR won't cure. Getting the position of the cut took some close measurement with my trusty Vernier calipers, but it looks as if it's worked out OK. I also glued on the under fuselage camera pod from the IVP, a larger item than the one from the F1CR that's already in the kit.

So here it is at present, lots of filing and PSR to do on the nose yet,  but you get the general idea I'm sure.

(http://imageshack.com/a/img922/8862/bKq0JI.jpg)


And here's what it should look like when it's done, approximately. The wings, tail and fin all plug in niccely, the starboard wing so 'nicely' that I can't actually get it out again....................Ho hum......  :banghead:

(http://imageshack.com/a/img924/2999/8KRvsd.jpg)
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: DogfighterZen on March 28, 2020, 03:53:09 pm
Lots of work ahead but it's looking good already!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: zenrat on March 28, 2020, 04:29:14 pm
Those wings look a bit short to me...

 :o
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: DogfighterZen on March 28, 2020, 06:35:57 pm
Those wings look a bit short to me...

 :o

 Indeed!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: ChernayaAkula on March 28, 2020, 08:03:06 pm
Ooooh, a Mirage F.1!  :wub: :wub: :wub:

<...> Many decades ago I had a fighter plane poster on my bedroom wall and my girlfriend at the time picked the F.1C as her favourite.

Your then-girlfriend was obviously a woman of taste!  :bow:

<....> They also include some resin wingtip missile rails, but why I have no idea as there are no less than FOUR styrene wingtip rails included on the main sprues, and they're better than the resin ones.  :o

The resin parts are for the Spanish marking option. The Spaniards used Sidewinders instead of Magics, hence the need for different rails.

<...> four piece ejection seat (Why?) and it's a different seat to the front one too, very odd. <...>

To make it detailed?
I think the front seat has canopy breaker "horns" because of the curvature of the canopy. If the MDC didn't shatter the canopy, the pilot's helmet would hit the canopy before his seat's headrest would. Not good.  :wacko: For the backseater, that's less of a problem as his seat's headrest would probably hit the canopy before his helmet does.
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 29, 2020, 04:52:31 am
Those wings look a bit short to me...

 :o

 Indeed!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


I might have guessed you two would come up with something on those lines.  ;D

Just for once I'll stay with the standard length, but I have at least 3 or 4 more Mirage F1 kits in The Loft...……..  ;)


<....> They also include some resin wingtip missile rails, but why I have no idea as there are no less than FOUR styrene wingtip rails included on the main sprues, and they're better than the resin ones.  :o

The resin parts are for the Spanish marking option. The Spaniards used Sidewinders instead of Magics, hence the need for different rails.

<...> four piece ejection seat (Why?) and it's a different seat to the front one too, very odd. <...>

To make it detailed?
I think the front seat has canopy breaker "horns" because of the curvature of the canopy. If the MDC didn't shatter the canopy, the pilot's helmet would hit the canopy before his seat's headrest would. Not good.  :wacko: For the backseater, that's less of a problem as his seat's headrest would probably hit the canopy before his helmet does.


Ahah, thanks for that, although I always thought that 'winders and Magics could be fired from the same rails.

The 'breaker horns' make sense, yes, but they could have moulded them in one piece, they're not that complex when they're assembled. They do look very good though.
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 30, 2020, 08:34:08 am
After 3 or 4 PSR sessions the new PR nose of the F1P's looking OK, or it is to me anyway. I've PSR'd the intakes too, which didn't fit all that well, as all F-4 style intakes tend to do, but they're not too bad now.

(http://imageshack.com/a/img923/5986/unPZnE.jpg)

It's almost time for adding the wings and tail etc.
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: DogfighterZen on March 30, 2020, 09:20:56 am
That nose has been tamed! ;D Well done, kit! :thumbsup:
Somehow reminds me of this guy, though... :rolleyes:

(https://i.imgur.com/kW0N98X.jpg)

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 30, 2020, 09:53:19 am

Somehow reminds me of this guy, though... :rolleyes:


Very true, it does.  ;D
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: loupgarou on March 30, 2020, 10:56:26 am
Kit has switched from long wings to long noses.  ;D
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 30, 2020, 03:49:43 pm
And now it's got wings and things.  ;D

Starting to look like aeroplane...………

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/6760/GQy7LK.jpg)
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: DogfighterZen on March 30, 2020, 06:08:20 pm
And now it's got wings and things.  ;D

Starting to look like aeroplane...………

And looking very good!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: Tophe on March 30, 2020, 11:27:29 pm
And looking very good!  :thumbsup:
I have the same feeling, and this reco nose on a 2-seater for sure makes it a whif, even without Aéronavale colours yet! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: zenrat on March 31, 2020, 12:36:32 am
Lovely.  Can't wait for paint.
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: Dizzyfugu on March 31, 2020, 12:42:06 am
This build makes me wonder about an F.1C with the (bigger) wings from a Jaguar?
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: zenrat on March 31, 2020, 01:49:34 am
This build makes me realise I need another Mirage F.1 for my stash.
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: Old Wombat on March 31, 2020, 03:01:34 am
This build makes me realise I need another Mirage F.1 for my stash.

Got one you can have, Fred.
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: zenrat on March 31, 2020, 03:25:24 am
YGPM Womby.
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 31, 2020, 09:43:26 am
The Special Hobby F1 has lots of very fine engraved detail, which is a pity as any PSR work means you have to re-engrave the devil out of it to restore that detail.  :banghead:

The wing joints have notable steps in them where they meet the fuselage, and the real thing is very smooth all over, so I've done two lots of PSR there so far. Looks like a mammoth re-engraving session ahead, and I hate that almost as much as I do PSR. :(
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: NARSES2 on April 01, 2020, 06:25:57 am
I simply work  on the basis that from 72 foot away you can't see panel lines  ;)
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: PR19_Kit on April 01, 2020, 03:37:33 pm
The last PSR's done, the panels have been rescribed and the last coat of primer has been applied.

I think I'm ready for colour coats, if only I could think of a scheme that DOESN'T include grey!

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img921/1327/2BtHlH.jpg)
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: rickshaw on April 01, 2020, 04:28:21 pm
PRU Blue?
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: Scotaidh on April 02, 2020, 01:38:13 am
What about a South African colour scheme?  I don't think they used much grey ...

(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ZNyhgnKyKOY/UUlN9nfKI-I/AAAAAAAACPQ/j6Lu8J6mbT4/s1600/mirage_f1_cz_213_0.jpg)
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: Dizzyfugu on April 02, 2020, 02:22:10 am
...but I assume that some rather naval livery is intended?  :o
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: zenrat on April 02, 2020, 02:26:24 am
I had no trouble.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/4818/31044397897_c5be67bafa_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/PihDVB)Mirage F-1C022 (https://flic.kr/p/PihDVB) by Fred Maillardet (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156376527@N06/), on Flickr

 ;D
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: PR19_Kit on April 02, 2020, 03:11:55 am

...but I assume that some rather naval livery is intended?  :o


Exactly Thomas.  :thumbsup:

So by Fred's rules it has to have some blue in there somewhere.  ;D
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: zenrat on April 02, 2020, 03:32:55 am
Not so much a rule as a guideline.

Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: Old Wombat on April 02, 2020, 03:58:07 am
Humbrol 14 French Blue

(https://www.mashobbies.com.au/images/thumbnails/500/300/detailed/0/25222.jpg)
https://www.mashobbies.com.au/building-supplies/model-paint/humbrol-14ml-enamel-paints/humbrol-14-french-blue-14ml-gloss-enamel-tinlet-50723492/ (https://www.mashobbies.com.au/building-supplies/model-paint/humbrol-14ml-enamel-paints/humbrol-14-french-blue-14ml-gloss-enamel-tinlet-50723492/)
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: PR19_Kit on April 02, 2020, 04:11:45 am
I may invent a totally new Aeronavale colour scheme, one which majors on Humbrol 14 of course.  ;D
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: Dizzyfugu on April 02, 2020, 06:46:10 am
IIRC, some Étendards deployed on carrier in the Mediterranean carried not the usual dark bluish-grey/white livery, but rather bright blue upper surfaces - a bit like PRU Blue. Not certain whether this was intentionally or just a painting accident, though.
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: PR19_Kit on April 02, 2020, 07:34:45 am
It'll do as a starter for me. Thanks very much.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: PR19_Kit on April 03, 2020, 07:01:50 am
I've been working on the stores for the F1P, and while the Magic missiles are fiddly, and the ECM pods just needed tidying, the underwing tanks are ATROCIOUS!  :banghead:

Not only are the two halves of each tank different sizes, so that they need lots of filing and PSR after assembly, the rather complex fins don't fit the tanks in the slightest! In the pic you can see the massive gaps where they meet up to the tail of the tank, and they need a lot of PSR as a result. For some reason SH have added a small part to the inside of each fin which is meant to fit in a slot in the tank, but they're far too large, and I've had to cut them off. That means MORE PSR to fill in the gap!

I wish I'd decided on something other than the tanks to go in the inner pylons now. :(

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/365/OUwPlJ.jpg)
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: Gondor on April 03, 2020, 07:42:47 am
Perhaps a set of tanks from a different manufacturer would be better, such as Airfix or Hasegawa?

Gondor
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: PR19_Kit on April 03, 2020, 08:09:32 am
Maybe so, but I'm 120 miles away from my main source of such stuff at the moment. :(
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: Zero-Sen on April 03, 2020, 10:30:36 am
... the rather complex fins don't fit the tanks in the slightest! In the pic you can see the massive gaps where they meet up to the tail of the tank, and they need a lot of PSR as a result. For some reason SH have added a small part to the inside of each fin which is meant to fit in a slot in the tank, but they're far too large, and I've had to cut them off. ...
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/365/OUwPlJ.jpg)
Perhaps the gaps a due to the way the fins are attached to the tank at a large anhedral angle.

I hope this helps.
http://data3.primeportal.net/hangar/luc_colin3/mirage_f-1cr/images/mirage_f-1cr_25_of_49.jpg (http://data3.primeportal.net/hangar/luc_colin3/mirage_f-1cr/images/mirage_f-1cr_25_of_49.jpg)
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: Dizzyfugu on April 03, 2020, 10:42:32 am
Why not simple leave them away, or replace them with simpler (single-piece) fins from styrene sheet?
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: PR19_Kit on April 03, 2020, 12:26:30 pm

Why not simple leave them away, or replace them with simpler (single-piece) fins from styrene sheet?


I did think of the latter choice, but by then I'd glued them on and it was a tad late. :(

They're very characteristic of the type, so I didn't fancy leaving them off. Viz the Spanish example here, which also has the chaff dispensers above the ventral fins which I've added on the model.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/3568/ohy6BG.jpg)
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: PR19_Kit on April 05, 2020, 06:32:33 am
Actually I think you're right Alastair. I'll have to buy another F1 kit from ebay, there's plenty for sale there.

It's almost impossible to PSR the upper surface of those fins, the outer fins get in the way, and then it's equally impossible to sand the putty away.

Who knows which F1 kit has tanks with integral fins please? Revell, Airfix, Heller, Haswgawa?
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: Gondor on April 05, 2020, 07:51:01 am

Actually I think you're right Alastair. I'll have to buy another F1 kit from ebay, there's plenty for sale there.

It's almost impossible to PSR the upper surface of those fins, the outer fins get in the way, and then it's equally impossible to sand the putty away.

Who knows which F1 kit has tanks with integral fins please? Revell, Airfix, Heller, Haswgawa?


To hand I have an Italeri Sepcat Jaguar "A" which used to have two of the required tanks in it. The split is vertical for the tank half's and the fins, complete with end plates, fit into groves in the tank sides so far less faff.

Gondor
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: PR19_Kit on April 05, 2020, 08:55:33 am
'Far les faff' sounds good to me!

Thanks for the pointer, I'll see if there's something similar going for auction.
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: rickshaw on April 05, 2020, 08:46:55 pm
Heller's F1s have a tank with the fins on it, Kit.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: Dizzyfugu on April 06, 2020, 01:46:55 am
Do they? I took a look and I found only kits with seperate fins - but these were the new boxings, for the different variants. Do you perhaps mean the original kit (with optional single- or two-seater cockpits)? I also checked the Heller Jaguar, but it also comes with suitable tanks but seperate fins.
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: rickshaw on April 06, 2020, 02:24:41 am
It was, I suppose the original kit 'cause that was what I used.   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: Gondor on April 06, 2020, 02:31:47 am
I have found a pair of tanks that meet with Kit's approval so they shall be posted to him the next time I am out other than to call the cat in!

Gondor
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: zenrat on April 06, 2020, 04:50:45 am
The Hasegawa F1C kit just has one tank included.
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: PR19_Kit on April 06, 2020, 05:52:06 am
F1s carried one MONSTER tank on the centreline point, and two smaller ones on the wing points. The centre line tank, called the 'Iranian Tank' for some reason, was finless, whereas the wing tanks had those severely anhedralled fins with tip fins too.

Anyway Alastair's found some Italeri Jaguar tanks that are the correct type and the fins are much more sensibly constructed. They'll be on the way to me when he can get out and about, thank you Alastair.  :thumbsup:

I LOVE being on this place, we're such a helpful lot, aren't we?  ;D
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: zenrat on April 06, 2020, 06:09:19 am
Hasegawa have fins on the big central tank.
(https://www.scalemates.com/products/img/3/9/8/148398-11669-pristine.jpg)
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: PR19_Kit on April 06, 2020, 06:11:13 am
I think that's one of the smaller tanks, but loaded onto the centre line rack.

The Iranian tank is quite markedly curved along their centre line.
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: PR19_Kit on April 06, 2020, 06:27:02 am
Actually you're right Fred, or half right anyway.  ;D

While that is one of the small tanks on the Hase box art, the big tank DOES have fins, only smaller, single surface ones.

Here's one of the markings drawings off the SH single seater F1 kit showing it carrying the big tank.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img921/1689/8BM4E7.jpg)
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: PR19_Kit on April 06, 2020, 02:03:20 pm
The Mirage has some colour on now, pale grey (Ford Dove Grey) on the underside and blue on top (PRU Blue as suggested by Rickshaw  :thumbsup:) It was a bit of a job masking it up, but it's not too bad so far.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/9540/V9dszo.jpg)

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/1457/HvdgYC.jpg)

Cockpit painting next, never my fave aspect of modelling. :(
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: Tophe on April 06, 2020, 09:08:17 pm
The dark blue-grey is good for Aéronavale. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: PolluxDeltaSeven on April 07, 2020, 12:45:47 am
F1s carried one MONSTER tank on the centreline point, and two smaller ones on the wing points. The centre line tank, called the 'Iranian Tank' for some reason, was finless, whereas the wing tanks had those severely anhedralled fins with tip fins too.

Anyway Alastair's found some Italeri Jaguar tanks that are the correct type and the fins are much more sensibly constructed. They'll be on the way to me when he can get out and about, thank you Alastair.  :thumbsup:

I LOVE being on this place, we're such a helpful lot, aren't we?  ;D

They're called "Iraqi tank", because they were first designed for the Mirage F1 build for Iraq. Later they were included on French Mirage F1CR (Recce) and F1CT (attack). Mirage F1C (fighter) and F1B (twin seater) still carry on the centerline a tank similar to the underwings' as far as I know.
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: AeroplaneDriver on April 07, 2020, 01:03:44 am
Love the colors!
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: PR19_Kit on April 07, 2020, 05:36:39 am
Iraq - Iran? They're next door to each other, so I confuse them a lot.  ;D
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: zenrat on April 08, 2020, 05:23:43 am
Iraq - Iran? They're next door to each other, so I confuse them a lot.  ;D

Understandable.  They are only one letter different after all.
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: PR19_Kit on April 08, 2020, 06:44:29 am
The Xtracolor PRU Blue I applied over 2 days ago is STILL sticky!  :banghead: :banghead:

I foresee a coat of Klear in this model's 'Future'. (Did you see what I did there?  ;D ;D)
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: NARSES2 on April 09, 2020, 06:01:36 am

I foresee a coat of Klear in this model's 'Future'. (Did you see what I did there?  ;D ;D)

Yes, but I'm doing my best to ignore it  :angel:
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: zenrat on April 10, 2020, 05:24:55 am

I foresee a coat of Klear in this model's 'Future'. (Did you see what I did there?  ;D ;D)

Yes, but I'm doing my best to ignore it  :angel:

That's either favouritism or you're getting soft.  You would have slapped me with 3 demerits and a detention if i'd said that.
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: rickshaw on April 10, 2020, 05:30:44 am

I foresee a coat of Klear in this model's 'Future'. (Did you see what I did there?  ;D ;D)

Yes, but I'm doing my best to ignore it  :angel:

That's either favouritism or you're getting soft.  You would have slapped me with 3 demerits and a detention if i'd said that.

But you hail from downunder, mate.  You would deserve it :banghead:... 
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: PR19_Kit on April 10, 2020, 06:03:48 am
I'm SO glad I'm in this place.  ;D ;D ;D

You guys never fail to get me laughing at least 2-3 times each day.  :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: PR19_Kit on April 10, 2020, 06:08:35 am
I've just finished assembling the SH pylons to the fairly ancient Hasegawa drop tanks that Gondor sent me, and they look MILES better than the much more modern SH tanks.  :thumbsup:

I've now got all the stores ready for paint, once the airframe has been Kleared and decalled. That's awaiting the cockpit detail painting, the canopies (all FIVE pieces!) gluing in place and masking.

Getting there but slowly, but it's not as if I'm pushed for time...……….
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: NARSES2 on April 10, 2020, 06:38:37 am

I foresee a coat of Klear in this model's 'Future'. (Did you see what I did there?  ;D ;D)

Yes, but I'm doing my best to ignore it  :angel:

That's either favouritism or you're getting soft.  You would have slapped me with 3 demerits and a detention if i'd said that.

And, your point is ?  ;)
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: Gondor on April 10, 2020, 07:17:07 am

Getting there but slowly, but it's not as if I'm pushed for time...……….


Said he who asked for an extension to the GB already....  :rolleyes:

Gondor
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: PR19_Kit on April 10, 2020, 08:28:36 am

Getting there but slowly, but it's not as if I'm pushed for time...……….


Said he who asked for an extension to the GB already....  :rolleyes:

Gondor


Well I'm not, I may get an extra two weeks.  ;D :o
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: PR19_Kit on April 10, 2020, 03:58:06 pm
See the last post on my Double Pancake thread. Everything's come to a halt for now. :(

https://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php?topic=47537.new#new (https://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php?topic=47537.new#new)
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: PR19_Kit on April 14, 2020, 02:00:59 pm
I got fed up with just sitting there looking at the unfinished Mirage F1P and the Double Pancake so I decided to do something.

As most of the paint was already on the F1P I gave it a coat of Klear and started on the decals. I'd printed out the ones I needed for its Aeronavale squadron, which is Flotille 16F, the force's dedicated PR unit, plus some camera windows etc. The rest came from the SH decal sheet plus some tricolours and anchors from Berna Decals.

Sadly the anchors are a tad small, even for the Berna tricolours, but they're the only games in town for me so they'll have to do. More decals to go on yet, but it's not looking too bad so far.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/8357/gvr0rK.jpg)

And yes, the Aeronavale do only carry their anchored tricolours on the port wing, top and bottom. I have no idea why, they just do.

Also I now know why they never did operate naval Mirage F1s, there just isn't enough room aft of the wing to carry their usual 'MARINE' script and a tricolour. That's why the F1P's fuselage tricolour is on the intakes!

Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: NARSES2 on April 15, 2020, 07:05:43 am

Also I now know why they never did operate naval Mirage F1s, there just isn't enough room aft of the wing to carry their usual 'MARINE' script and a tricolour.

They had a similar problem with their Skyrays  ;)
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: PR19_Kit on April 17, 2020, 03:35:03 pm
Following Zenrat's 2nd rule of the 'In the Navy' GB, stating that every carrier borne entrant has to have a hook, I found that two of my models, the Mirage F1P and the Double Pancake, haven't got one of these essential devices.

Well, the Double Pancake had one from the single seater version, but that's patently stupid as it retracts into the TOP of the fuselage!  :banghead:

So I've built a couple of hooks for these two, a single arm one for the Mirage and a V armed one for the Pancake, mainly because it's got a tailwheel and a straight one hasn't anywhere to go. (It could retract into the top of the...………….no, that's just TOO silly!)

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/1858/A3YYsJ.jpg)
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: CammNut on April 17, 2020, 03:47:14 pm
Yes, the XF7U's hook was probably the mist bizarre creation is the history of aviation
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: PR19_Kit on April 18, 2020, 06:16:35 am

Yes, the XF7U's hook was probably the mist bizarre creation is the history of aviation


I think you meant 'XF5U', didn't you?

But if you did I'm in total agreement, I just can't think why they did it like that, makes no sense at all.
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: PR19_Kit on April 19, 2020, 02:46:00 pm
Hmmm, after having finished painting the cockpit, well as far as I'm going to paint it anyway, it was time to glue on the canopies, all five parts of it.

Except the middle bits don't fit!  :banghead:

The bang seats are too tall and prevent the canopies closing, which may be OK if you want to model them open, but I don't, so it looks as if I'll have to file off the detail bits of the top of the bang seats and then repaint them, grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr…………

I wouldn't mind too much if they were aftermarket bang seats, but they're out of the box! :(
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: Gondor on April 19, 2020, 03:24:17 pm
Hmmm, after having finished painting the cockpit, well as far as I'm going to paint it anyway, it was time to glue on the canopies, all five parts of it.

Except the middle bits don't fit!  :banghead:

The bang seats are too tall and prevent the canopies closing, which may be OK if you want to model them open, but I don't, so it looks as if I'll have to file off the detail bits of the top of the bang seats and then repaint them, grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr…………

I wouldn't mind too much if they were aftermarket bang seats, but they're out of the box! :(

Better to take the file to the bottom of the seat and lower it so you don't lose the detail and if you make a mess its hidden too  :thumbsup:

Gondor
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: PR19_Kit on April 19, 2020, 03:34:54 pm

Better to take the file to the bottom of the seat and lower it so you don't lose the detail and if you make a mess its hidden too  :thumbsup:


If I hadn't already assembled, glued and painted the cockpit I could have, but that's impossible now. I'll have to slice the top off the seats, no other way. :(
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: DogfighterZen on April 19, 2020, 03:41:36 pm

Better to take the file to the bottom of the seat and lower it so you don't lose the detail and if you make a mess its hidden too  :thumbsup:


If I hadn't already assembled, glued and painted the cockpit I could have, but that's impossible now. I'll have to slice the top off the seats, no other way. :(

That sucks... i thought that by being a recent kit, those problems would not come up...  :banghead:
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: Gondor on April 20, 2020, 01:07:48 am

Better to take the file to the bottom of the seat and lower it so you don't lose the detail and if you make a mess its hidden too  :thumbsup:


If I hadn't already assembled, glued and painted the cockpit I could have, but that's impossible now. I'll have to slice the top off the seats, no other way. :(

That'll do it

Perhaps cut the neck of the seat to lower the headrest?  :-\  Maybe not....

Gondor
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: PR19_Kit on April 20, 2020, 02:14:43 am
Just painted all the wheels. I HATE paining wheels!  :banghead:

No matter how I do it, they always need 4-5 goes, first the silver hubs, then the black tyres. Then more silver to clean up the mistakes I made with the black, and so on and so on...……….
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: Dizzyfugu on April 20, 2020, 02:43:32 am
That paint scheme with the mid waterline looks very good on the F.1C - it stretches the slender aircraft even more!  :thumbsup: Very pretty.
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: PR19_Kit on April 20, 2020, 04:14:33 am
That was the plan, and at one time I thought of adding a light blue stripe along the joint line, but thought better of it.
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: NARSES2 on April 20, 2020, 06:41:43 am
I don't mind wheels as long as the hub rim is well delineated. Then I paint the hub and when dry initially run some very heavily thinned RLM 66 onto the tyre which tends to then flow around the hub. I paint the rest of the tyre once that dries.
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: PR19_Kit on April 20, 2020, 06:44:27 am
Hm, that's a good idea, I'll try that on the Barracuda. I'm using some resin wheels on that so they should be well moulded.

What colour is RLM 66 please? I don't actually have any here, but I may have an equivalent.
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: NARSES2 on April 20, 2020, 06:54:19 am
Hm, that's a good idea, I'll try that on the Barracuda. I'm using some resin wheels on that so they should be well moulded.

What colour is RLM 66 please? I don't actually have any here, but I may have an equivalent.

Sorry Kit, RLM 66 is just a very dark grey the Luftwaffe used for cockpit interiors late on once they switched from 02 the greeny/grey colour. Any dark grey will do, as long as it's grey and not got a hint of blue in as a lot of them have. Especially some of the British ones.
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: PR19_Kit on April 20, 2020, 08:24:46 am
OK thanks. I've got some Tamiya ones like that I think.

I'm still getting used to those HUGE pots.  ;D
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: Gondor on April 20, 2020, 09:10:40 am
Humbrol 92 which I converted from the old Authentic Colour HG 6

or

X201

or

GS H70

That enough?

https://www.ipmsstockholm.se/home/urbans-color-reference-charts-part-i/urbans-colour-reference-charts-germany/

Gondor
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: PR19_Kit on April 20, 2020, 09:15:31 am
Looks good Alastair, thanks.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: PR19_Kit on April 23, 2020, 03:15:37 am
A teaser progress pic of the F1P.

Most of the wheels are on, one nosewheel needs its attachment hole re-drilling, but no gear doors yet. All the doors, and stores are painted but the doors have to go on first as the big wing tanks prevent access to attach the doors.

Only the left side is fully decalled so far though.  ;D

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/1567/kqiynn.jpg)
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: Dizzyfugu on April 23, 2020, 03:18:11 am
Uh, pretty! The different, non-radar nose really changes the usual look of the F.1!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: Tophe on April 23, 2020, 03:44:07 am
 :wub: :wub: Oh, what a marvel!  :wub: :wub:
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: Gondor on April 23, 2020, 03:52:56 am
The nose section looks a little Alpha Jet to me. Looks dam good so far though.  :thumbsup:

Gondor
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: PR19_Kit on April 23, 2020, 04:25:11 am
It's entirely Etendard IVP actually, I used the entire photo nose from a IVM conversion.

When are manufacturers going to wise up about landing gear axles? It's no good making them scale size, they're made of STYRENE for crying out loud! Are you listening Revell, and others?  :banghead:

I've just had two of the axles on one side pf the F1P snap clean off, they're less than 1 mm dia. so they've got no chance standing up to putting the model down a few times during the build, they just fatigue. It doesn't matter if they're over scale thickness, you can't see the axles anyway, they're INSIDE the wheel hub! 
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: PR19_Kit on April 23, 2020, 05:24:31 am
And a bit more research on the real subject wouldn't come amiss either Mr. Special Hobby!

The instructions tell you where to put the main and nose gear doors, some of them anyway, but omit the other main doors totally. But I figured out where they went from the shape of them and superglued them in place. Styrene cement won't work due to all the paint in the way.

THEN I find out that the Mirage F1 has most of its doors closed, even when it's on the ground! The large nose gear door and the two smaller main gear doors are always shut unless the gear is cycling, darn it.  :banghead:

So my F1P is modelled in 'maintenance mode' while the matelots set the oleo pressures and damping settings, ok?
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: Old Wombat on April 23, 2020, 08:11:39 am
Maybe the Marine Nationale ones don't have the wheels-down gear doors closing programming? (backstory covers, et alia) :unsure:

Looks really good, Kit! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: PR19_Kit on April 23, 2020, 09:06:02 am
Since I posted that I've found a few pics showing the main nose gear door open, and one showing them ALL open.  :o

But of course you never know what the situation was when the pics were taken.

All the doors, stores and decals are on now, so construction is done. Just some varnishing and a bit of paint touch-up to do and that's it.  ;D

Pics this evening probably.
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: Gondor on April 23, 2020, 09:10:48 am

And a bit more research on the real subject wouldn't come amiss either Mr. Special Hobby!


The same could be said about the builder assuming that the manufacturer got it right, then again if you want to whiff something it doesn't have to be right.

The number of times I watch people build an Airfix TSR2 with all the undercarriage doors open.....

Gondor
Title: Re: Mirage F1P FINISHED
Post by: PR19_Kit on April 23, 2020, 02:19:17 pm
The F1P is done. Hooray!  ;D ;D

Here's a bunch of pics of many aspects of the F1P, showing the specialised PR and weapons fit carried by them.

The backstory's being written when my hands stop shaking after a zillion attempts to glue the blasted gear doors on!  :banghead:

(http://imageshack.com/a/img922/7127/BltqHY.jpg)

Starboard side showing the AAR probe offset in front of the canopy, the Magic 2 missile on the wing tip rail, the Barracuda ECM pod and the starboard wing tank.


(http://imageshack.com/a/img923/7264/zA3CBm.jpg)

Port side, almost the same apart from a Phimat chaff dispenser on the outboard wing rail.


(http://imageshack.com/a/img923/554/iP64nB.jpg)

Nose view showing the Etendard IVP developed nose PR camera bay.


(http://imageshack.com/a/img921/4893/qXCTqu.jpg)

Top view, with la total ack of a zillion stencils. Against the blue colour they'd never be seen so I didn't bother.


(http://imageshack.com/a/img921/9571/0IcQwg.jpg)

Underside showing all the weapons, and both camera bays. The mid-fuselage bay can be replaced with a hose reel for tanker duties.


(http://imageshack.com/a/img922/4949/4Onk0s.jpg)

An important view as it shows The Hook!  ;D Also the Iraqi dorsal fin used because of the extended nose.

Currently the aircraft is still finished in all-over Klear varnish, which is very gloss to my eyes, and I'm wondering if I should give it a coat of semi-matt.

All opinions will be welcome please.
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: Tophe on April 23, 2020, 08:33:52 pm
Great!  :wub:
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: Weaver on April 24, 2020, 01:20:27 am
Lovely job - it looks great! :thumbsup:

Not so much a what-if as a nearly-was: Dassault desperately wanted to sell the Navy F1s. In an world where the decision was only made on military grounds, not political/industrial ones, it would have made a lot of sense, since the F1 airframe could be configured for fighter, strike, naval strike (Iraqi F1Ps had Agave+Exocets) and recce. The Aeronavale could have had one-type carriers in the 1970s instead of the 2010s...

I say give it a coat of semi-matt: the gloss might be right for a full-size naval aircraft, but the reflections spoil the illusion in 1/72nd.



Re gear doors, I can't speak for the F1, but I did see some research about this with regard to the Mirage III and I suspect that the same applies to a lot of other aircraft.

Basically, the answer to the question, "Should all the doors be open, or should some of them be closed, when the aircraft is on the ground?"

Appears to be, "Yes."

Allow me to explain: when you lower the undercarriage to land all of the doors open, but then the ones that can close again do so, in order to reduce drag and turbulence. However, these doors remain unlatched because the latches only activate when the legs are fully retracted: when the legs are down, they're only held closed by hydraulic pressure in the pistons. When you land and taxi, the doors stay closed, but when you switch everything off and go home for the night the pressure in the hydraulic system bleeds off and the doors gradually drop open. Then, when you fire the plane up again in the morning and the hydraulics come online, the doors close again.

For modelling purposes, I'd say the rules of thumb are:

1. If it's got a pilot in it the implication is that it's powered-up, so the doors should be closed.

2. If it hasn't got a pilot in it the implication is that it's powered-down, so the doors should be open.

3. Do research: there may be other specific-to-type kinks that I don't know about.
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: zenrat on April 24, 2020, 04:05:56 am
Lovely job - it looks great! :thumbsup:

Not so much a what-if as a nearly-was: Dassault desperately wanted to sell the Navy F1s. In an world where the decision was only made on military grounds, not political/industrial ones, it would have made a lot of sense, since the F1 airframe could be configured for fighter, strike, naval strike (Iraqi F1Ps had Agave+Exocets) and recce. The Aeronavale could have had one-type carriers in the 1970s instead of the 2010s...

I say give it a coat of semi-matt: the gloss might be right for a full-size naval aircraft, but the reflections spoil the illusion in 1/72nd.



Re gear doors, I can't speak for the F1, but I did see some research about this with regard to the Mirage III and I suspect that the same applies to a lot of other aircraft.

Basically, the answer to the question, "Should all the doors be open, or should some of them be closed, when the aircraft is on the ground?"

Appears to be, "Yes."

Allow me to explain: when you lower the undercarriage to land all of the doors open, but then the ones that can close again do so, in order to reduce drag and turbulence. However, these doors remain unlatched because the latches only activate when the legs are fully retracted: when the legs are down, they're only held closed by hydraulic pressure in the pistons. When you land and taxi, the doors stay closed, but when you switch everything off and go home for the night the pressure in the hydraulic system bleeds off and the doors gradually drop open. Then, when you fire the plane up again in the morning and the hydraulics come online, the doors close again.

For modelling purposes, I'd say the rules of thumb are:

1. If it's got a pilot in it the implication is that it's powered-up, so the doors should be closed.

2. If it hasn't got a pilot in it the implication is that it's powered-down, so the doors should be open.

3. Do research: there may be other specific-to-type kinks that I don't know about.

And if you glue the doors on crooked then you've modelled it some time after it was parked up and the doors are in the process of drooping.
I meant to look at my Fanta Can F1C to see if I built it with the doors open or closed (pics don't show clearly).
But I forgot.

Good build Kit.  Looks like a bought one.
 :thumbsup:

If there are visible brush marks, then satin clear it.  If not, leave it shiny.
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: rickshaw on April 24, 2020, 04:31:32 am
 :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: PR19_Kit on April 24, 2020, 05:55:47 am

Not so much a what-if as a nearly-was: Dassault desperately wanted to sell the Navy F1s. In an world where the decision was only made on military grounds, not political/industrial ones, it would have made a lot of sense, since the F1 airframe could be configured for fighter, strike, naval strike (Iraqi F1Ps had Agave+Exocets) and recce. The Aeronavale could have had one-type carriers in the 1970s instead of the 2010s...


Have you snuck into my laptop H?

That's pretty much what my backstory says already.  ;D
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: ChernayaAkula on April 24, 2020, 06:14:56 am
Jolly nice build!  :wub: Mirage F.1s are alwas pretty. And the recce nose doesn't spoil its good looks.

<...> the F1 airframe could be configured for fighter, strike, naval strike (Iraqi F1Ps had Agave+Exocets) and recce. The Aeronavale could have had one-type carriers in the 1970s instead of the 2010s... <...>

Electronic warfare, too. :thumbsup: The Iraqis used a French-designed stand-off jammer to good effect.
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: NARSES2 on April 24, 2020, 06:35:29 am
That's come out really well Kit  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: PR19_Kit on April 24, 2020, 09:16:59 am
And now, the backstory.  ;D

https://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php?topic=47758.new#new (https://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php?topic=47758.new#new)
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: DogfighterZen on April 24, 2020, 04:33:49 pm
Jolly nice build!  :wub: Mirage F.1s are alwas pretty. And the recce nose doesn't spoil its good looks.


Second that, it's gorgeous! :wub:
And the back story is very good stuff, too!  :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: Hobbes on April 26, 2020, 05:38:12 am
Very nice, well done  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: Old Wombat on April 26, 2020, 09:14:09 am
Nicely done, Kit! Great job! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: PR19_Kit on May 14, 2020, 11:31:52 am
After looking at its glossiness for some time I thought 'It's a bit too Motor Show to me' so I gave the whole thing a coat off Satincite.

It looks a but more realistic now.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: Tophe on May 14, 2020, 11:54:45 am
more realistic now.  :thumbsup:
Are you sure this is a quality for a what-if model? ;)
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: PR19_Kit on May 14, 2020, 12:24:48 pm
more realistic now.  :thumbsup:

Are you sure this is a quality for a what-if model? ;)


OK, it looks more 'serviceable'.

How's that?  ;D
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: Glenn Gilbertson on May 14, 2020, 04:33:36 pm
Magnificently modelled and very plausible! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: The Rat on May 14, 2020, 04:43:20 pm
That's the job!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: Tophe on May 14, 2020, 08:54:48 pm
OK, it looks more 'serviceable'.
How's that?  ;D
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: ;D
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: Dizzyfugu on May 14, 2020, 11:04:05 pm
Looks very good - and the camouflaged nose section changes the look of the F.1 completely.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: chrisonord on May 15, 2020, 01:43:20 pm
Very nice Kit and one of my favourite aircraft too, especially it being a two seater.
I haven't looked at the  group build  section for a  very long time , I  need to  change that.  :thumbsup:
Chris
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: PR19_Kit on May 15, 2020, 02:35:59 pm

Very nice Kit and one of my favourite aircraft too, especially it being a two seater.
I haven't looked at the  group build  section for a  very long time , I  need to  change that.  :thumbsup:


Thanks Chris, glad you like it.  :thumbsup:

There's some really good stuff in the latest Group Build, even though three of them are mine.  ;) ;D
Title: Re: Mirage F1P
Post by: TheChronicOne on May 16, 2020, 11:22:12 pm
A bit spiky, I'm surprised! Pleasantly so.  :wacko: