What if

GROUP BUILDS => The Out of Retirement G.B. => Topic started by: NARSES2 on October 08, 2019, 06:54:23 am

Title: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: NARSES2 on October 08, 2019, 06:54:23 am
This is the place for your general chit chat etc
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: TheChronicOne on October 08, 2019, 05:56:27 pm
First off, thanks very much for getting all this set up. I'm eager to find something for this GB but have not much of a clue where to start. I will go read the rules now so that I have one!
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: kerick on October 08, 2019, 07:31:19 pm
Maybe its time for the P/F-61 Black Widow to be brought back as an attack platform in Vietnam like the B-26 was. It was used effectively with rockets and its guns towards the end of WW2.
I was given the Monogram 1/48th kit some time ago and its way past time I built it.
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: Mossie on October 09, 2019, 12:15:44 am
Does it have to be a full platform or can it be a concept?  For instance a promising technology that was trialed but not fully realised then resurected at a later date.
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: TomZ on October 09, 2019, 02:05:17 am
Does it have to be a full platform or can it be a concept?  For instance a promising technology that was trialed but not fully realised then resurected at a later date.
The rules state that is has to have been in active service and retired. I did not discuss this with my fellow moderator but I think a concept does not fall within the "In service" requirement of this GB.

TomZ
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: zenrat on October 09, 2019, 03:26:48 am
It strikes me that a Hot Rod is basically a car which has been brought out of retirement for the purpose of going fast.
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: Old Wombat on October 09, 2019, 03:29:27 am
It strikes me that a Hot Rod is basically a car which has been brought out of retirement for the purpose of going fast.

Or looking cool. ;)
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: PR19_Kit on October 09, 2019, 05:22:19 am

It strikes me that a Hot Rod is basically a car which has been brought out of retirement for the purpose of going fast.


Absolutely!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: NARSES2 on October 09, 2019, 06:25:16 am
I've been musing on bringing the Typhoon or Tempest back into R.A.F. service as a ground attack platform in either the very late 40's or very early 50's.

The premise would be that Britain finds it'self involved in quite a few colonial/peacekeeping/policing situations and the Government decides to recall WWII veterans to active service. (yes I know it would have been highly unlikely but this is Whif World) and then someone in the R.A.F. decides that rather then try and train them up on fancy new kit during their 12 months of service why just not issue them with kit they are familiar with and give them a refresher ?
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: loupgarou on October 09, 2019, 06:59:32 am
I've been musing on bringing the Typhoon or Tempest back into R.A.F. service as a ground attack platform in either the very late 40's or very early 50's.

The premise would be that Britain finds it'self involved in quite a few colonial/peacekeeping/policing situations and the Government decides to recall WWII veterans to active service. (yes I know it would have been highly unlikely but this is Whif World) and then someone in the R.A.F. decides that rather then try and train them up on fancy new kit during their 12 months of service why just not issue them with kit they are familiar with and give them a refresher ?

You just have to find a place with a warm and DRY weather in UK where to store the planes in the intervening time...  :rolleyes:  ;D

Something analog to Davis-Monthan.
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: Dizzyfugu on October 09, 2019, 07:03:23 am
That's not far-fetched - just look at the P-51 coming back for Korea, and a piston-engine aircraft would certainly have been a better ground attack platform than early jets like the Meteor. Malaysia from 1948 until the Sixties comes to my mind, with a long-lasting anti-insurgency campaign by Commonwealth troops. I have a Tempest II somewhere in the stash, as well as some unguided missiles...  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: Nils on October 09, 2019, 10:39:19 am
i'll have a go at this GB, just need to see in the stash wich oldtimer will be revived to serve again  :mellow:
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: NARSES2 on October 09, 2019, 11:20:03 am
That's not far-fetched - just look at the P-51 coming back for Korea, and a piston-engine aircraft would certainly have been a better ground attack platform than early jets like the Meteor. Malaysia from 1948 until the Sixties comes to my mind, with a long-lasting anti-insurgency campaign by Commonwealth troops. I have a Tempest II somewhere in the stash, as well as some unguided missiles...  :rolleyes:

I must admit it was finding an extra Tempest II in the stash and then seeing some art work of Korean Mustangs that kicked the thought process off  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: kitbasher on October 09, 2019, 11:26:18 am
I've been musing on bringing the Typhoon or Tempest back into R.A.F. service as a ground attack platform in either the very late 40's or very early 50's.

The premise would be that Britain finds it'self involved in quite a few colonial/peacekeeping/policing situations and the Government decides to recall WWII veterans to active service. (yes I know it would have been highly unlikely but this is Whif World) and then someone in the R.A.F. decides that rather then try and train them up on fancy new kit during their 12 months of service why just not issue them with kit they are familiar with and give them a refresher ?

You just have to find a place with a warm and DRY weather in UK where to store the planes in the intervening time...  :rolleyes:  ;D

Something analog to Davis-Monthan.

I’ve seen pics of cocooned Spitfire 22s stashed away in maintenance unit hangars during the 1950s ‘just in case’.

My candidate would be Buccaneer S2s as Wild Weasels or the ‘EF.3’ Tornado in the same role pending a dedicated 2-seat Typhoon version.

Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: Nils on October 09, 2019, 11:40:15 am
maybe a post war FW.190 or Bf109 in West- or East-German service  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: joncarrfarrelly on October 09, 2019, 01:16:33 pm
That's not far-fetched - just look at the P-51 coming back for Korea, and a piston-engine aircraft would certainly have been a better ground attack platform than early jets like the Meteor. Malaysia from 1948 until the Sixties comes to my mind, with a long-lasting anti-insurgency campaign by Commonwealth troops. I have a Tempest II somewhere in the stash, as well as some unguided missiles...  :rolleyes:

The P-51/F-51 was still in service with USAF when the Korean War started, and many more
were in ANG units, so it really wasn't a matter of coming back.

P-47s on the other hand would require a resurrection from the dead.
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: McColm on October 09, 2019, 01:38:40 pm
Why does my Airfix Avro Vulcan B.Mk2 keep starring at me  :banghead: ? I read somewhere that it was considered as a contender to be converted into a AEW platform for the RAF.
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: kitnut617 on October 09, 2019, 02:20:36 pm

P-47s on the other hand would require a resurrection from the dead.

I think the Dominion Republic operated P-47's around then, didn't they Jon ?
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: rickshaw on October 09, 2019, 04:04:02 pm

P-47s on the other hand would require a resurrection from the dead.

I think the Dominion Republic operated P-47's around then, didn't they Jon ?

As did the ANG units of the USAF.  The P-47 was dying out but not quite dead by the time the Korean War broke out.  However AIUI the decision was made to stick with the F-51 in Korea 'cause it was there in Japan, whereas the F-47 wasn't.

Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: joncarrfarrelly on October 09, 2019, 05:25:35 pm
F-47 numbers were small and spares were an issue, unlike the F-51, also the
majority of the in-service F-47s were with ANG units east of the Mississippi
(the exceptions being Hawai'i ANG with F-47N for long-range air defense patrols,
and Puerto Rico ANG), ANG units in the west were equipped with the F-51.

Quote
When the Korean War began, there were 1,167 F-47s on hand, but most of these were
in storage–only 265 Thunderbolts were active in ANG units and they were all considered
second-line aircraft. Additionally, the rapid demobilization after World War II affected the supply
system and the availability of spares for the Thunderbolts throughout the post-war years. For
instance, the 23rd Fighter Group stationed on Guam in 1947 had pilots who had not accumulated
the required night time flying hours because their Jugs lacked functioning flight instruments. The
group’s historian noted “the installation of these instruments is contemplated in the near future,
depending of course, upon Tech Supply.” Historian Kenneth P. Werrell was told the F-47 was not
used in Korea primarily because of the lack of spare parts.

Quote
On Sunday June 25, 1950 (the day the North invaded the South), 897 F-51 and 38 RF-51
Mustang fighters remained in the U.S. Air Force active inventory. A further 764
Mustangs were then being operated by the U.S. Air National Guard
. The F-51Ds had
sufficient supplies of spare parts, so they were chosen to go back to war and again, as in 1942,
they went in a close-support role.

265 F-47 in ANG service with limited spares versus 1,699 F-51 in active USAF and ANG service
with proper spares support. Math and logistics win.

As to loss numbers:
Quote
335 F-51D Mustangs were lost in the Korean War, with 264 pilots killed or missing.
Of these losses, 172 fell to enemy ground fire, ten to enemy jet fighters, with forty-four
missing and unaccounted for, and the remainder to accidents.

Quote
The F4U and AD experienced heavy losses in Korea–almost all of the 312 Corsairs and 124
Skyraiders lost to ground fire
Both powered with air-cooled radials which were supposedly more resistant to ground fire,
the Corsair's wing mounted oil-coolers being it's main vulnerability.

In short to get the P/F-47 back in service in Korea in place of the F-51 would be a major
undertaking.
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: zenrat on October 10, 2019, 03:21:25 am
I have a RW aftermarket sheet of transfers for Jugs serving with Chile, Columbia, Venezuela, Mexico and Cuba.

How about Skyraiders brought out of retirement for Desert Storm?

I'm thinking about updating a car by dropping in a newer engine.  Ford or Mopar - I have resin modern engines for both makes.

Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: Rheged on October 10, 2019, 10:02:28 am
Somewhere in the stash (if one of my sons hasn't annexed them)are a Deltic and  a British Railways class 4 tender engine.  Were I to build these in Network South East or Virgin West coast colours, would they be an appropriate entry in this build?
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: Dizzyfugu on October 10, 2019, 10:04:26 am
That sounds cool.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: TomZ on October 10, 2019, 10:10:22 am
Somewhere in the stash (if one of my sons hasn't annexe them)are a Deltic and  a British Railways class 4 tender engine.  Were I to build these in Network South East or Virgin West coast colours, would they be an appropriate entry in this build?

They most certainly would!

TomZ
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: perttime on October 10, 2019, 10:13:01 am
Piper PA-48 Enforcer goes into production.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/57/Piper_PA48_Enforcer_USAF.jpg/1024px-Piper_PA48_Enforcer_USAF.jpg)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piper_PA-48_Enforcer
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: PR19_Kit on October 10, 2019, 11:16:44 am
The idea of a BR Class 4 in Network SouthEast colours is MIND boggling!  :o

A Deltic in the current LNER scheme would be very topical though.  :thumbsup:

Perhaps I'll paint up my Kitmaster Garratt in the Virgin scheme?  ;) ;D
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: Rheged on October 10, 2019, 01:46:17 pm
I can offer these pix from the depths of the interweb:-https://www.pinterest.co.kr/pin/384283780686859647/ (https://www.pinterest.co.kr/pin/384283780686859647/) and https://www.google.co.uk/search?sxsrf=ACYBGNRVcMs9mgApE7D3NcAb6qqwtmqvWQ:1570739651671&q=steam+engines+in+modern+livery&tbm=isch&source=hp&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi7uOOXxZLlAhW1RBUIHZSPDLwQ4216BAgFECM&biw=1366&bih=620#imgrc=iL_AQ4oLA4LAdM:&spf=1570739661816 (https://www.google.co.uk/search?sxsrf=ACYBGNRVcMs9mgApE7D3NcAb6qqwtmqvWQ:1570739651671&q=steam+engines+in+modern+livery&tbm=isch&source=hp&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi7uOOXxZLlAhW1RBUIHZSPDLwQ4216BAgFECM&biw=1366&bih=620#imgrc=iL_AQ4oLA4LAdM:&spf=1570739661816)
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: zenrat on October 11, 2019, 02:51:00 am
And then there is the failure of the F-35 programme which, combined with the discovery that stick & string construction was actually stealthier than modern composites, led to modern air forces raiding their museums and operating missile armed biplanes...
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: Devilfish on October 11, 2019, 04:31:22 am
Why does my Airfix Avro Vulcan B.Mk2 keep starring at me  :banghead: ? I read somewhere that it was considered as a contender to be converted into a AEW platform for the RAF.

The one that always got me interested was either a "fighter" version. Basically, carrying loads of air to air missiles, or upgraded ala B-52G style
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: NARSES2 on October 11, 2019, 06:21:54 am
Somewhere in the stash (if one of my sons hasn't annexed them)are a Deltic and  a British Railways class 4 tender engine.  Were I to build these in Network South East or Virgin West coast colours, would they be an appropriate entry in this build?

LNER. I'd pay extra for my regular trips up North in a train pulled by a "proper" locomotive  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: NARSES2 on October 11, 2019, 06:29:29 am
And then there is the failure of the F-35 programme which, combined with the discovery that stick & string construction was actually stealthier than modern composites, led to modern air forces raiding their museums and operating missile armed biplanes...

I have a half written scenario (intended for the UK SIG Newsletter) whereby after some initial hopes and talk of "this is the future" the jet engine in all it's forms doesn't actually work in practice and we have to carry on developing some of those amazing engines that were in development at the end of WWII  ;D

This was inspired by a novel I read once whereby whilst the atom bomb worked when tested, when they tried to actually use it the thing wouldn't. In the end they had to drop it off the coast of Japan and con the Japanese Government into surrendering.

Can't remember what it was called, "The God..........something" I think ? It was a long time ago.

Note I have googled it but just got a load of "evangelical" stuff.
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: TheChronicOne on October 11, 2019, 09:52:27 am
I stumbled across this doing research yesterday and it could offer a bit of inspiration for someone.

In 1964 the USN brought two Phantom I's out of retirement for usage in a program to train civilians how to fly jet aircraft.

(https://i.imgur.com/ZKX91w2.jpg)


So....  "out of retirement" doesn't necessarily mean sticking with the original intended role; a swords to plowshares element could come into play which opens up options.

Might make me a Starlifter airliner.  :wacko:
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: joncarrfarrelly on October 11, 2019, 11:54:48 am
From the start the C-141 was intended for civil use, consequently it was designed
and built to meet FAA requirements and received FAA certification. The civil version
wasthe Model 300, it was ordered by Slick Airways but after they were absorbed by
Airlift International ended the program as operators preferred the 707 and DC-8
freighters which had 50% greater payload capacity.

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/lockheed-l-300.10508/

https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1962/1962%20-%202864.html
https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1962/1962%20-%202865.html
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: TheChronicOne on October 11, 2019, 01:01:04 pm
Thanks! That's why I like it as an option; more plausible than the B-17 idea for sure.  ;D  I hadn't seen that civvie one before, it looks great.  :wub:   

I've been planning to do one for ages, this GB just might be the excuse I've been looking for. I envisioned it being Pan-Am but that that's the wrong era. I'd need something more modern but that would mean I need to throw some new engines on it which I didn't want to do....   :unsure:   Oh well, we'll see. Should be easy enough to get new engines, but it'd be one more thing to buy.  :banghead:

I still have some other ideas rolling around in my head, too. I'd like to come up w/ a military build. I kind of like Fred's idea to do a Skyraider in 1991 and might steal it. I've been wanting to put the short live chocolate chip camo of the day onto an aircraft and this might be a fun opportunity to do so. Maybe the Marines wanted to try it or something after seeing the uniforms, blah blah blah.  :mellow:
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: scooter on October 11, 2019, 04:54:55 pm
If I get my mojo back, I have a couple of ideas.  Otherwise they may just exist in profile form
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: joncarrfarrelly on October 11, 2019, 05:37:27 pm
Thanks! That's why I like it as an option; more plausible than the B-17 idea for sure.  ;D  I hadn't seen that civvie one before, it looks great.  :wub:   

I've been planning to do one for ages, this GB just might be the excuse I've been looking for. I envisioned it being Pan-Am but that that's the wrong era.

The GB is all about resurrection, so why not resurrect Pan-Am?  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: TheChronicOne on October 11, 2019, 05:55:33 pm
Indeed, why didn't I think of that?! No reason why not, yeah? I think she'd be a very pretty aeroplane.  :mellow:   Hell, I could even try to go a step further and throw a bit of a "retro" vibe and find a livery with the full "Pan American Airways" text or whatever it was before they shortened it.  :unsure:  Then it's an out of retirement resurrected bird flying with an undead company using an expired livery as a retro-scheme marketing gimmick.  :unsure:  ;D   Resuretro.  :mellow:
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: McColm on October 11, 2019, 08:15:47 pm
There's the Boeing C-97 which for me has an array of potential Whiffs especially in the AEW role and now I have the Heller Boeing E-3A/C 1/72 kit in the stash along with a Academy Boeing KC-97G . The question is whether  the vertical tail fin is kept or a triple tail added instead?
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: TheChronicOne on October 11, 2019, 08:29:19 pm
Go triple, bud!
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: zenrat on October 11, 2019, 09:13:03 pm
Random unrelated thought.  What if the Stratofreighter etc were developed earlier.  So double bubble B17 rather than B29?

...I kind of like Fred's idea to do a Skyraider in 1991 and might steal it. I've been wanting to put the short live chocolate chip camo of the day onto an aircraft and this might be a fun opportunity to do so. Maybe the Marines wanted to try it or something after seeing the uniforms, blah blah blah.  :mellow:

Steal away dude.  I've actually painted two models in choccy chip.
PDRV Dartstang.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/4145/34787098424_06e43f691a_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/V11Yp3)Dartstang 009 (https://flic.kr/p/V11Yp3) by Fred Maillardet (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156376527@N06/), on Flickr
BOC Me 262 (yes, it is 1/48.  Please forgive me, I strayed from the true path).
(https://live.staticflickr.com/4215/34789096564_c1a7edae6c_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/V1cdnJ)Me 262 Secret treaties 003 (https://flic.kr/p/V1cdnJ) by Fred Maillardet (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156376527@N06/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: TheChronicOne on October 11, 2019, 09:55:08 pm
Random unrelated thought.  What if the Stratofreighter etc were developed earlier.  So double bubble B17 rather than B29?

...I kind of like Fred's idea to do a Skyraider in 1991 and might steal it. I've been wanting to put the short live chocolate chip camo of the day onto an aircraft and this might be a fun opportunity to do so. Maybe the Marines wanted to try it or something after seeing the uniforms, blah blah blah.  :mellow:

Steal away dude.  I've actually painted two models in choccy chip.
PDRV Dartstang.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/4145/34787098424_06e43f691a_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/V11Yp3)Dartstang 009 (https://flic.kr/p/V11Yp3) by Fred Maillardet (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156376527@N06/), on Flickr
BOC Me 262 (yes, it is 1/48.  Please forgive me, I strayed from the true path).
(https://live.staticflickr.com/4215/34789096564_c1a7edae6c_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/V1cdnJ)Me 262 Secret treaties 003 (https://flic.kr/p/V1cdnJ) by Fred Maillardet (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156376527@N06/), on Flickr

 :o :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:  I'm mesmerized.....  I love the chocamo...  these are so cool.  :mellow:
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: kitnut617 on October 12, 2019, 07:41:27 am
So if something was brought out of retirement to operate in the same force, can it be upgraded too, say it got re-engined and/or re-designated to another class, say fighter to ground attack.

Apologies if this has been asked already, I've not read the whole thread ---
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: kitnut617 on October 12, 2019, 07:45:27 am
Random unrelated thought.  What if the Stratofreighter etc were developed earlier.  So double bubble B17 rather than B29?

...I kind of like Fred's idea to do a Skyraider in 1991 and might steal it. I've been wanting to put the short live chocolate chip camo of the day onto an aircraft and this might be a fun opportunity to do so. Maybe the Marines wanted to try it or something after seeing the uniforms, blah blah blah.  :mellow:

Steal away dude.  I've actually painted two models in choccy chip.
PDRV Dartstang.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/4145/34787098424_06e43f691a_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/V11Yp3)Dartstang 009 (https://flic.kr/p/V11Yp3) by Fred Maillardet (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156376527@N06/), on Flickr
BOC Me 262 (yes, it is 1/48.  Please forgive me, I strayed from the true path).
(https://live.staticflickr.com/4215/34789096564_c1a7edae6c_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/V1cdnJ)Me 262 Secret treaties 003 (https://flic.kr/p/V1cdnJ) by Fred Maillardet (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156376527@N06/), on Flickr

 :o :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:  I'm mesmerized.....  I love the chocamo...  these are so cool.  :mellow:

I've always like the choc-chip scheme too

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/e43c46c6-6524-49e2-af0e-331ed5c1d866.jpg)
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: TheChronicOne on October 12, 2019, 08:28:29 am
 :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:    Damn, Robert!    :wub: :wub: :wub:     I'm definitely doing this now. I have a non-too-accurate Revell Skyraider that this would be perfect for. I deemed it not viable for real world subjects.  :wacko:
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: McColm on October 12, 2019, 01:23:27 pm
You mean like a BC-97 bomber using the B-29 bomb bays and gun turrets? That's doable  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: TheChronicOne on October 12, 2019, 01:38:10 pm
You mean like a BC-97 bomber using the B-29 bomb bays and gun turrets? That's doable  :thumbsup:

IT's a really cool idea, go for it!! Throw some camo on there and it would look like a beastly thing that means business.
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: kerick on October 12, 2019, 03:28:50 pm
Could this include things brought out from the boneyard for NASA or some other agency like the RB-57 was? Reports are circulating that NASA’s RB-57s are flying some sort of high altitude communication missions over Afghanistan. What other aircraft could be resurrected for off the wall missions?
The AH-1 Cobra helicopters acquired by the US Forest Service to help fight forest fires would qualify.
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: Weaver on October 12, 2019, 05:17:03 pm
Could this include things brought out from the boneyard for NASA or some other agency like the RB-57 was? Reports are circulating that NASA’s RB-57s are flying some sort of high altitude communication missions over Afghanistan. What other aircraft could be resurrected for off the wall missions?
The AH-1 Cobra helicopters acquired by the US Forest Service to help fight forest fires would qualify.

F-111 dug out of the boneyard for NASA to act as chase for a some sort of spaceplane after re-entry. In real life they used T-38s, so try to concoct a scenario where the chase-plane needs both range and speed. The EF-111 Sparkvark proves that you can put a damned great pod on the top of the fin, so why not fit a tubular pod with a infra-red camera looking through a swivelling prism setup so it can photograph the spaceplane as it passes overhead?
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: kerick on October 12, 2019, 05:39:16 pm
Sounds good to me! Go for it!
I started a USFS Firewatch Cobra but had a paint disaster. I’d have to start a new one for the GB. I could apply the idea to some other aircraft.
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: scooter on October 12, 2019, 05:52:27 pm
Sounds good to me! Go for it!
I started a USFS Firewatch Cobra but had a paint disaster. I’d have to start a new one for the GB. I could apply the idea to some other aircraft.
USFS Apache?
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: TomZ on October 12, 2019, 11:29:44 pm
USFS Apache?

Apache isn't retired though, is it?

TomZ
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: Mossie on October 13, 2019, 12:06:09 am
It will be some day!
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: Weaver on October 13, 2019, 01:59:31 am
I read that after the official retirement of the Phantom from service, the RAF kept a few of them in flyable condition as a reserve force for a few years. What if something had happened to make them use that force? There might have been an extra demand on resources that the Tornado F.3 force couldn't meet, or there might have been a technical problem that grounded the latter. In either event, you could do an RAF Phantom with AIM-132 ASRAAMs on the wing pylons as a subtle whiff.
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: zenrat on October 13, 2019, 03:34:48 am
You mean like a BC-97 bomber using the B-29 bomb bays and gun turrets? That's doable  :thumbsup:

No.  Like a B17 based passenger or cargo plane with a double bubble fuselage.
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: scooter on October 13, 2019, 05:29:52 am
I read that after the official retirement of the Phantom from service, the RAF kept a few of them in flyable condition as a reserve force for a few years. What if something had happened to make them use that force? There might have been an extra demand on resources that the Tornado F.3 force couldn't meet, or there might have been a technical problem that grounded the latter. In either event, you could do an RAF Phantom with AIM-132 ASRAAMs on the wing pylons as a subtle whiff.

Or a certain South American nation tried to make for a certain set of islands in the South Atlantic...again :wacko:
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: sandiego89 on October 13, 2019, 06:24:30 am
I read that after the official retirement of the Phantom from service, the RAF kept a few of them in flyable condition as a reserve force for a few years. What if something had happened to make them use that force? There might have been an extra demand on resources that the Tornado F.3 force couldn't meet, or there might have been a technical problem that grounded the latter. In either event, you could do an RAF Phantom with AIM-132 ASRAAMs on the wing pylons as a subtle whiff.

I think the RAF should have kept a few Phantoms (and later Tornado ADV’s) in the extra hardened shelters at Mt. Pleasant after official retirement.
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: nighthunter on October 13, 2019, 12:33:43 pm
I'll be entering the USS Nathan James NCC-1280. Brought out of retirement and refit in the 2370's with "current" tech for the Dominion war, that the Federation was desperate for ships.
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: joncarrfarrelly on October 13, 2019, 12:42:44 pm
You mean like a BC-97 bomber using the B-29 bomb bays and gun turrets? That's doable  :thumbsup:

No.  Like a B17 based passenger or cargo plane with a double bubble fuselage.

Basically a 307 with an exaggerated C-46 style fuselage.
(http://www.air-and-space.com/Boeing%20307/Boeing%2012329B%20N19903%20left%20side%20l.jpg)

(http://barrieaircraft.com/images/curtiss-c46-commando-08.jpg)

Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: nighthunter on October 13, 2019, 12:47:00 pm
Y'all are concentrating on the Jug, when if you Look at the P-38, (Better fighter than the Stang and Jug) was retired in '49...
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: McColm on October 13, 2019, 02:00:50 pm
You mean like a BC-97 bomber using the B-29 bomb bays and gun turrets? That's doable  :thumbsup:

No.  Like a B17 based passenger or cargo plane with a double bubble fuselage.

Basically a 307 with an exaggerated C-46 style fuselage.
(http://www.air-and-space.com/Boeing%20307/Boeing%2012329B%20N19903%20left%20side%20l.jpg)

(http://barrieaircraft.com/images/curtiss-c46-commando-08.jpg)
I think that I have attempted  to built something like this before using the
C-46 ( S+ M Model 1/72 kit) with the wings and engines from the B-17G, as I couldn't get the original wings to fit. I might have ruined this by removing the two outer engines,  which resigned it to the bin. Well there's always next time  :banghead:
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: McColm on October 13, 2019, 02:26:59 pm
So the Dassault Breguet Atlantic ATL1 could be a contender,  as I have the Revell 1/72 kit in the stash?
Although several proposals for a AEW &C model by the French and the UK came to nothing,  this could be considered as an alternative to the E-7 Wedgetail.
I have converted the Mach2 Atlantic into a twin turbofaned version but I have never tried it on the Revell kit.
 Another proposal would be the Martin SeaMaster as an airliner or firefighter bomber.
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: PR19_Kit on October 13, 2019, 02:57:51 pm

 Another proposal would be the Martin SeaMaster as an airliner or firefighter bomber.


It's doubtful if you can consider the Seamaster as 'retired' as it never properly entered service. The P6M-2 production variants only saw service with a USN trials unit, not a fully operational squadron.
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: kerick on October 13, 2019, 08:26:15 pm
Fire fighting P-3 Orion formerly flown by Aero Union now being refurbished by Buffalo Airways and Airstrike Firefighters.

(http://www.orionaff.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/IMG_9390.jpg)

Any number of cargo aircraft brought out of retirement for civilian uses.

Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: McColm on October 13, 2019, 10:02:19 pm
Fire fighting P-3 Orion formerly flown by Aero Union now being refurbished by Buffalo Airways and Airstrike Firefighters.

(http://www.orionaff.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/IMG_9390.jpg)

Any number of cargo aircraft brought out of retirement for civilian uses.
That would be an interesting build  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: tigercat on October 14, 2019, 04:18:28 am
I'm tempted by a missile armed Swordfish in Raspberry ripple . Just need to come up with a backstory .

Also as Red Bull have a war bird display team or did people could do something similar 

Typhoo Typhoon acrobatic team anyone ?
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: McColm on October 14, 2019, 05:21:36 am
This group build covers 90% of my started builds,  time to dig out the long-term kits in the stash.
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: NARSES2 on October 14, 2019, 06:36:04 am

 Another proposal would be the Martin SeaMaster as an airliner or firefighter bomber.


It's doubtful if you can consider the Seamaster as 'retired' as it never properly entered service. The P6M-2 production variants only saw service with a USN trials unit, not a fully operational squadron.

But in Whif World it might of Kit
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: PR19_Kit on October 14, 2019, 06:45:23 am

 Another proposal would be the Martin SeaMaster as an airliner or firefighter bomber.


It's doubtful if you can consider the Seamaster as 'retired' as it never properly entered service. The P6M-2 production variants only saw service with a USN trials unit, not a fully operational squadron.

But in Whif World it might of Kit


True, but that means anyone can enter anything in this GB and the rules don't count...…………  :banghead:
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: Old Wombat on October 14, 2019, 06:48:25 am
I've sworn off GB's for the time being, so I won't be riding this bronco, but if anyone wants to give it a bash; what about Aussie Beaufighters re-activated for COIN ops in Vietnam? :unsure:


Post script:

The last aircraft, A8-357, was flown to Edinburgh for disposal by Wing Commander Williamson on 9 December 1957.

(From here: https://www.airforce.gov.au/sites/default/files/minisite/static/7522/RAAFmuseum/research/aircraft/series2/A8.htm (https://www.airforce.gov.au/sites/default/files/minisite/static/7522/RAAFmuseum/research/aircraft/series2/A8.htm))
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: Snowtrooper on October 14, 2019, 06:54:05 am
Aussie Beaufighters re-activated for COIN ops in Vietnam? :unsure:
Supported by Lysanders as FAC platforms? :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: NARSES2 on October 14, 2019, 06:59:33 am

True, but that means anyone can enter anything in this GB and the rules don't count...…………  :banghead:

Fair enough Kit, just trying to find a way through what's becoming an increasingly impenetrable jungle, that if I'm honest is starting to get to me  :-\
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: Nils on October 14, 2019, 08:38:27 am
the idea came to mind for a 1920's Sopwith Camel in RAF service, in an all metal color scheme  :mellow:
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: nighthunter on October 14, 2019, 09:26:57 am
the idea came to mind for a 1920's Sopwith Camel in RAF service, in an all metal color scheme  :mellow:

An aluminum dope?
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: scooter on October 14, 2019, 09:33:09 am
the idea came to mind for a 1920's Sopwith Camel in RAF service, in an all metal color scheme  :mellow:

Based at RAF Habbaniya? :wacko:
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: PR19_Kit on October 14, 2019, 10:03:55 am

True, but that means anyone can enter anything in this GB and the rules don't count...…………  :banghead:

Fair enough Kit, just trying to find a way through what's becoming an increasingly impenetrable jungle, that if I'm honest is starting to get to me  :-\


Yes, it's turning out to be a bit of a pain rules wise. I'm glad I'm not a mod on THIS one!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: Old Wombat on October 14, 2019, 10:04:28 am
True, but that means anyone can enter anything in this GB and the rules don't count...…………  :banghead:

Fair enough Kit, just trying to find a way through what's becoming an increasingly impenetrable jungle, that if I'm honest is starting to get to me  :-\

Keep it simple, Chris: Retired from service in the Real World; WhIf resurrection at least 5 years after they've been retired by the country using them*.




*: I say this as some small, poorer nations kept obsolete stuff going for so long it was ridiculous - some not-so-poor countries, too, such as Norway's M24 Chaffees which, as the (significantly upgraded) NM-116, were retired from service in 1993 & Uruguay's still using them!
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: PR19_Kit on October 14, 2019, 10:04:56 am
the idea came to mind for a 1920's Sopwith Camel in RAF service, in an all metal color scheme  :mellow:

Based at RAF Habbaniya? :wacko:


They had Audaxes, Harts and Hinds there in the 40s, so why not?  ;D
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: Rheged on October 14, 2019, 10:23:39 am
I'm tempted by a missile armed Swordfish in Raspberry ripple . Just need to come up with a backstory .

I like this idea! Swordfish did carry solid headed RP-3 "rocket spears" but I'm assuming you want something more recent.  Swordfish could carry 1700 lbs at 140 mph, so Sea Eagle or Harpoon would be no trouble. Even a W177 nuclear depth at 600lbs (or two) is possible . A slow moving test aircraft dropping dummy W177 casings for aerodynamic research is perhaps feasible.

Come to think of it, the  Westland Wasp was cleared to carry W177, with a top speed of 110 mph.  A Swordfish would carry this weight at 140 mph.......a nuclear strike Stringbag perhaps?

I'd be happy to construct you a back-story for this scenario if you do make a raspberry ripple Swordfish!
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: tigercat on October 14, 2019, 11:33:10 am
I'll see what I can do  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: joncarrfarrelly on October 14, 2019, 01:56:00 pm
The last active US military Phantoms, QF-4 target drones, were retired December 21st, 2016.

Perhaps they get pulled out of the boneyard and converted to armed UAVs?  :wacko:
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: joncarrfarrelly on October 14, 2019, 03:27:05 pm
According to Wikipedia there are 25 surviving Sud Caravelles on display.

Airframe structures refurbished and/or improved where necessary, all systems
replaced and updated, re-engined with higher bypass turbofans? How many
rebuilt, why and who?

 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: zenrat on October 15, 2019, 02:02:02 am
I'm tempted by a missile armed Swordfish in Raspberry ripple . Just need to come up with a backstory .

I like this idea! Swordfish did carry solid headed RP-3 "rocket spears" but I'm assuming you want something more recent.  Swordfish could carry 1700 lbs at 140 mph, so Sea Eagle or Harpoon would be no trouble. Even a W177 nuclear depth at 600lbs (or two) is possible ...

Exocet. 
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: Weaver on October 15, 2019, 02:29:56 am
Tricky isn't it?

I was going to suggest ex-boneyard EC-121s for the RAF instead of AEW Shackletons as a 'temporary' stop-gap in the 1970s pending arrival of the AEW Nimrod, but it turns out the US was still flying EC-121s into the 1980s... :banghead:

Part of the problem is that user nations often to keep small fleets of 'retired' aircraft going for ages doing second-line duties. For instance, Canada's CF-100s 'retired' from fighter duties in the early 1960s when the Voodoos arrived, but they kept a small fleet of them going until 1981 for ECM training duties. Same goes for Hunters: during the prime export 'window' for second-hand examples, the RAF was still using them, right up to the early 1990s.
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: zenrat on October 15, 2019, 03:57:07 am
You need to look at specific variants of the aircraft you are thinking of whiffing for this GB.
Take the Hunter for example.  It is true that the last RAF Hunters retired in the early 90's but those were T7 & T8 trainers.  Single seat variants would have retired earlier than that and so would be fair game for reintroduction.  You just need to do your homework.


Or write a suitable back story.   ;)
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: tigercat on October 15, 2019, 04:39:07 am
Oooo the Exocet is within a Swordfish s payload capacity.

How  large a radar return would a Swordfish give off compared to  a jet aircraft ?
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: rickshaw on October 15, 2019, 04:49:48 am
Oooo the Exocet is within a Swordfish s payload capacity.

How  large a radar return would a Swordfish give off compared to  a jet aircraft ?

Quite large.  You have a large radial engine, open at the front and a large spinning propeller in front of that.   You have rigging wires between the wings.  All are excellent reflectors of radar returns.
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: Weaver on October 15, 2019, 06:26:53 am
How about a piston-engined WWII bomber gets decommissioned and converted to a civilian passenger/freight aircraft, then, decades later and long after it's out of service with it's original user air force, it finds itself in the middle of a nasty-little-war in Africa or Central America, and gets re-purposed with improvised weapons?

Lancastrian with Exocets, or at least, under-wing bombs?
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: NARSES2 on October 15, 2019, 07:00:01 am
the idea came to mind for a 1920's Sopwith Camel in RAF service, in an all metal color scheme  :mellow:

Why not. Sopwith Snipes served in natural metal/aluminium dope finishes with full squadron bars.
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: NARSES2 on October 15, 2019, 07:06:07 am
  Swordfish could carry 1700 lbs at 140 mph, so Sea Eagle or Harpoon would be no trouble. Even a W177 nuclear depth at 600lbs (or two) is possible . A slow moving test aircraft dropping dummy W177 casings for aerodynamic research is perhaps feasible.


All I'll say is that seagulls can obviously fly more than 140 mph then  ;) Dad told the tale of when he was serving aboard an auxiliary carrier in the Atlantic the WTO of a Swordfish told his mess mates that they'd been overtaken by a gull during one flight and on another occasion the same WTO told them the pilot figured that they were probably going backwards the headwind was that strong  ;) Dad also helped with hauling one down onto the deck as it to all attempts and purposes was hovering in a strong gale and was refusing to touch down.
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: Rheged on October 15, 2019, 07:15:33 am
The 140mph is in ideal conditions and  I'd be the first to admit that a North Atlantic storm is less than ideal. I have the greatest respect for WW2 Swordfish crews and those on carriers that supported them.
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: NARSES2 on October 15, 2019, 07:22:02 am
The 140mph is in ideal conditions and  I'd be the first to admit that a North Atlantic storm is less than ideal. I have the greatest respect for WW2 Swordfish crews and those on carriers that supported them.

Having been in mid Atlantic during a "blow" so do I  :bow: and I was on a 50,000 tonne ship.
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: PR19_Kit on October 15, 2019, 08:33:29 am
I'm sure I've mentioned this before on here, but it bears repeating.

At a BoB Display at RAF Abingdon in the 60s the wind speed rose to horrendous levels and the promised FAA Swordfish display, presumably by 5A in those days, kept on getting delayed according to the announcer. He explained that the aircraft had taken off from Yeovilton before the wind started to rise but they'd get to Abingdon 'eventually'.

After a LONG time the Stringbag appeared over the horizon and crawled across the airfield, and having arrived at crowd centre it stopped! The pilot apparently radioed the tower and explained that they really couldn't do any meaningful display, but to show how versatile the Swordfish was they were going to show us a 'Reverse Loop', and promptly proceeded to do just that!

This involved raising the nose a little and opening the throttle, which produced a vertical climb with the aircraft in an almost horizontal attitude, and then he backed off the throttle quite a bit and proceeded back across the airfield in reverse!  :o  The next step was to lower the nose and adjust he throttle so that the aircraft descended pretty well vertically, but still remaining in a horizontal position, and from that point he just landed the aircraft and taxied to the hardstanding.

Needless to say the performance received tumultuous applause, but I doubt if the crew got back to Yeovilton that night!
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: Rick Lowe on October 15, 2019, 10:30:23 am
Brilliant, thanks for that! Raised a smile.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: TheChronicOne on October 15, 2019, 10:37:40 am
Could be an interesting new way to bomb something.  ;D
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: Rheged on October 15, 2019, 10:55:17 am
Admiral A B Cunningham's autobiography, Having Been a Sailor, has the following quote on p416 in the hardback edition:-

  "I believe the Germans reported that the British had some helicopters in the Western Desert which were very accurate bombers. These were probably the old Swordfish going upwind"

Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: TheChronicOne on October 15, 2019, 11:07:15 am
"Helicopters"  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: McColm on October 15, 2019, 01:33:28 pm
There's the BAe Nimrod MR.2P which might have been brought back into service after the cancellation of the MRA.4 until the Boeing P-8 is ready.
I was thinking of changing the jet exhaust pipes to the Tonka or Typhoon,  adding a few more underwing pylons plus a few more sensors to the fuselage.
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: McColm on October 17, 2019, 01:38:40 pm
The Space Shuttle would be an ideal platform for a space airliner as it was built to be reused,  I've got the Revell 04863 1/144 Boeing 747 SCA & Space Shuttle in my stash. I might replace the engines on the Boeing 747 and change the decals now that the RAF are involved in the UK space industry.
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: tigercat on October 17, 2019, 04:00:39 pm
 :thumbsup:  Thanks for the interesting Swordfish stories
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: Dizzyfugu on October 18, 2019, 01:15:57 am
With some time and checking my long project list, three more ideas beyond the Scottish Gripen have turned up that might be eligible for this GB.
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: Caveman on October 18, 2019, 04:11:06 am
With the current goings-on on HMS QE, some SHARs might be appropriate for this.
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: tigercat on October 20, 2019, 12:57:45 am
There's always the myth of the Strategic Steam Reserve for anyone fancying making one of the Dapol  locos,  Steam  Engines slumbering  under a hill like a mechanical King Arthur  until recalled to service in an hour of need ,
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: zenrat on October 20, 2019, 01:23:19 am
There's always the myth of the Strategic Steam Reserve for anyone fancying making one of the Dapol  locos,  Steam  Engines slumbering  under a hill like a mechanical King Arthur  until recalled to service in an hour of need ,

Hmmm, an A4 Pacific with a small nuclear pile replacing the firebox.  Brought back into use to meet zero carbon footprint legislation.



Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: Dizzyfugu on October 20, 2019, 04:20:37 am
Found another potential project - this time a vehicle!
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: PR19_Kit on October 20, 2019, 04:29:43 am

Hmmm, an A4 Pacific with a small nuclear pile replacing the firebox.  Brought back into use to meet zero carbon footprint legislation.


And the driver controlling it by remote control from the guard's van!
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: scooter on October 20, 2019, 04:31:23 am

Hmmm, an A4 Pacific with a small nuclear pile replacing the firebox.  Brought back into use to meet zero carbon footprint legislation.


And the driver controlling it by remote control from the guard's van!

An RTG (radiothermal generator) or NASA's Kilopower (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilopower) might be safer options.
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: tigercat on October 20, 2019, 08:53:02 am
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_flying_saucer

The British Rail  Flying Saucer  could be put back into service ....
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: PR19_Kit on October 20, 2019, 09:02:31 am

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_flying_saucer

The British Rail  Flying Saucer  could be put back into service ....


Oh gawd, 'Charlie Frederick's Brain Storm' again!  :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: Dizzyfugu on October 20, 2019, 10:54:42 am
There's always the myth of the Strategic Steam Reserve for anyone fancying making one of the Dapol  locos,  Steam  Engines slumbering  under a hill like a mechanical King Arthur  until recalled to service in an hour of need ,

Hmmm, an A4 Pacific with a small nuclear pile replacing the firebox.  Brought back into use to meet zero carbon footprint legislation.

Well, this can actually be found in literature, in the original Battle Angel Alita manga - nuclear-powered steam locomotives.  ;)
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: kerick on October 20, 2019, 05:44:56 pm
Well there is the Union Pacific “Big Boy” 4014 that has been brought back into service. Started out burning coal and now uses fuel oil. Now with a nuclear reactor?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Pacific_4014
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: joncarrfarrelly on October 20, 2019, 06:35:34 pm
The Big Boy isn't actually in service, it's used for exhibition runs on the UP system.
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: PR19_Kit on October 21, 2019, 03:59:59 am
The 844 has always been in service though, hasn't it? The UP never struck it off charge when they dieselised.
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: loupgarou on October 21, 2019, 07:31:56 am
The Big Boy isn't actually in service, it's used for exhibition runs on the UP system.
But a scenario could be envisaged, in which all electrical appliances stopped working, so all museum locos had to be put back in service.
I think I remember an SF book about this.
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: scooter on October 21, 2019, 08:11:30 am
The Big Boy isn't actually in service, it's used for exhibition runs on the UP system.
But a scenario could be envisaged, in which all electrical appliances stopped working, so all museum locos had to be put back in service.
I think I remember an SF book about this.

Heck, there are plenty of post-apocalyptic/EMP scenario novels on Amazon like that
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: tigercat on October 21, 2019, 09:02:51 am
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_steam_reserve

Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: joncarrfarrelly on October 21, 2019, 09:28:09 pm
The 844 has always been in service though, hasn't it? The UP never struck it off charge when they dieselised.

On the books, but not used for revenue service.
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: Devilfish on October 30, 2019, 12:09:52 am
If I can get the bits, I have an idea for a rejuvenated Mosquito....
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: NARSES2 on November 01, 2019, 07:03:58 am
And we are off, enjoy yourselves  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: JoeP on November 08, 2019, 02:09:41 pm
Oh foo, if only all weren't packed away for the eventual move.
Such possibilities for ships.  Upgrade a OHP FFG.  Bring back a CGN or upgrade CLG Little Rock with VLS.  Repurpose an LHA for another nation's navy.
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: joncarrfarrelly on November 09, 2019, 12:50:46 pm
Because of continuing lackluster audience numbers IndyCar brings back the
front-engined roadsters as a support series. Engine sized is limited to a max.
of 4.5 liters.

 :thumbsup:


Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: loupgarou on November 09, 2019, 02:34:09 pm
That's an interesting idea!
It's open the hunt for ancient kits? Old or new sponsors?
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: sandiego89 on November 09, 2019, 03:47:12 pm
I would actually like it if Formula 1 went back to the screaming V-10s of only a few years ago....
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: zenrat on November 09, 2019, 09:05:48 pm
Because of continuing lackluster audience numbers IndyCar brings back the
front-engined roadsters as a support series. Engine sized is limited to a max.
of 4.5 liters.

 :thumbsup:




To accompany this move period clothing is made compulsory for drivers and pit crews as is having at least one smoker in the pit during refuelling.   ;D


Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: joncarrfarrelly on November 11, 2019, 10:19:32 am
Because of continuing lackluster audience numbers IndyCar brings back the
front-engined roadsters as a support series. Engine sized is limited to a max.
of 4.5 liters.

 :thumbsup:

To accompany this move period clothing is made compulsory for drivers and pit crews as is having at least one smoker in the pit during refuelling.   ;D

Racing suits have been around in US racing since the mid-1920s and are very common in the roadster
era of the 1950s-1960s. Hinchman started with suits for Pete de Paulo and a couple others in the 1925,
made the earlier type cooling/fire-resistant suits in the '50s and Nomex suits starting the '60s. They also
make a series of vintage style suits using modern materials.
http://www.hinchmanindy.com/shopping/?ic=12720

US open-wheel has used alcohol fuels for a long time, so smoking in the pits wasn't that big a deal.  ;)
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: McColm on November 11, 2019, 11:56:59 am
There's talk of bringing back the European Ford Capri as a hatchback or two door coupe. The artwork looks like they have used the latest Mustang and put the Capri body on top. Some of the artwork reminds me of the Hellcat.  I've got the Matchbox 1/24 kit in my stash,  l just need a suitable engine and some new wheel hubcaps.
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: McColm on November 12, 2019, 02:44:22 am
The  Blohm and Voss BV-138 looks as though it could be modified to have three turboprop engines for maritime patrol usage and the front turret could be useful for anti-submarine warfare. The trolley provided could be whiffed into wheels for an amphibious version. I have the Supermodel BV 138 in 1/72 scale which I will be using for this project.
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: NARSES2 on November 13, 2019, 07:41:47 am

To accompany this move period clothing is made compulsory for drivers and pit crews as is having at least one smoker in the pit during refuelling.   ;D

And of course you'd need the lady hangars on to be in attendance  ;D You've got me thinking about when we used to climb over the fence and watch the racing at the old Crystal Palace circuit now for some reason ?
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: zenrat on November 14, 2019, 02:41:57 am

To accompany this move period clothing is made compulsory for drivers and pit crews as is having at least one smoker in the pit during refuelling.   ;D

And of course you'd need the lady hangars on to be in attendance  ;D You've got me thinking about when we used to climb over the fence and watch the racing at the old Crystal Palace circuit now for some reason ?

I remember hopping over the fence to invade the track at Brands Hatch following the British Grand Prix.
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: zenrat on November 14, 2019, 03:22:21 am
This on the Aviation Geek Club.
https://theaviationgeekclub.com/tu-22m3-resurrected-from-storage-to-rejoin-russias-bomber-fleet/
While the Tu22 is still in service with the Russian Air Force this had been retired and would qualify for this GB if transferred to another user.
Rumour has it this aircraft has been taken by Ukranian fan boys keen for Dizzy to work on a 1:1 project...
 :mellow:
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: scooter on November 14, 2019, 03:44:18 am
This on the Aviation Geek Club.
https://theaviationgeekclub.com/tu-22m3-resurrected-from-storage-to-rejoin-russias-bomber-fleet/
While the Tu22 is still in service with the Russian Air Force this had been retired and would qualify for this GB if transferred to another user.
Rumour has it this aircraft has been taken by Ukranian fan boys keen for Dizzy to work on a 1:1 project...
 :mellow:

Sounds like the BUFF the Air Force resurrected from the Boneyard to replace the one that suffered a cockpit fire a couple or so years ago
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: Dizzyfugu on November 14, 2019, 04:58:45 am
Interesting weathering. That primer showing though almost looks like a layer of moss on the Backfire...  :o

Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: Weaver on November 14, 2019, 01:19:42 pm
Suppose the UK manages to keep a stock of Saladins and Saracens in reserve (it's a lot easier to store vehicles in the UK than it is aircraft) and then drags them out of retirement for Iraq/Afghanistan etc...?

Slat armour and anti-IED 'tables' on the rear should do nicely.
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: joncarrfarrelly on November 14, 2019, 04:20:13 pm
Suppose the UK manages to keep a stock of Saladins and Saracens in reserve (it's a lot easier to store vehicles in the UK than it is aircraft) and then drags them out of retirement for Iraq/Afghanistan etc...?

Slat armour and anti-IED 'tables' on the rear should do nicely.

Or to patrol the wall when Scotland votes independence and leaves the UK?  ;) :wacko:
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: scooter on November 14, 2019, 04:48:23 pm
Suppose the UK manages to keep a stock of Saladins and Saracens in reserve (it's a lot easier to store vehicles in the UK than it is aircraft) and then drags them out of retirement for Iraq/Afghanistan etc...?

Slat armour and anti-IED 'tables' on the rear should do nicely.

Or to patrol the wall when Scotland votes independence and leaves the UK?  ;) :wacko:

Hadrian's Wall brought out of retirement then?
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: Weaver on November 14, 2019, 06:16:51 pm
Suppose the UK manages to keep a stock of Saladins and Saracens in reserve (it's a lot easier to store vehicles in the UK than it is aircraft) and then drags them out of retirement for Iraq/Afghanistan etc...?

Slat armour and anti-IED 'tables' on the rear should do nicely.

Or to patrol the wall when Scotland votes independence and leaves the UK?  ;) :wacko:

Nah: who needs armoured vehicles when all you need to stop a Scotsman is a toll booth?  :wacko:  ;)
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: joncarrfarrelly on November 14, 2019, 10:41:31 pm
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: Rheged on November 15, 2019, 01:58:56 am
Suppose the UK manages to keep a stock of Saladins and Saracens in reserve (it's a lot easier to store vehicles in the UK than it is aircraft) and then drags them out of retirement for Iraq/Afghanistan etc...?

Slat armour and anti-IED 'tables' on the rear should do nicely.

Or to patrol the wall when Scotland votes independence and leaves the UK?  ;) :wacko:

Hadrian's Wall brought out of retirement then?

There is a huge chunk of Northumberland  a fair bit of Cumbria NORTH of the wall.  Look at a map of Britain.....you will see that there are parts of the islands of the Hebrides SOUTH of Berwick upon Tweed!!
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: zenrat on November 15, 2019, 02:31:59 am
Isn't there a chunk of the wall in Newcastle?

I used to always wonder, when driving North up the M1, where "The North" officially started as no matter how far you went it still appeared on the signs as if you hadn't got there yet.

Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: Rheged on November 15, 2019, 02:58:24 am
Isn't there a chunk of the wall in Newcastle?

I used to always wonder, when driving North up the M1, where "The North" officially started as no matter how far you went it still appeared on the signs as if you hadn't got there yet.

There's quite a lot of Wall in Newcastle, and I'm sure that our Geordie representative could be eloquent on this!  It's even under my mother in law's house in Carlisle.......she's not allowed to dig more than 1 metre down without getting a full archaeological team on site.

As to "The North", this is what a philosopher of my acquaintance calls a "Nebulous Concept".  It all depends where you live.  When I lived in Carlisle, people regarded anywhere north of a line drawn between York and Lancaster as "North" .  Manchester  and Liverpool get upset by this, as it puts them in the Midlands.  Many people in the south regard anything north of Watford Gap services as "The North"  and I do know people in Southampton who say the north of England is anywhere above the line of the M4.

It's all a matter of relatives (and where they live) as Einstein nearly said.

I would also refer you to a road sign portrayed in that magnificent diorama of   THE TRACK ROVER   https://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php?topic=26984.msg416612#msg416612 (https://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php?topic=26984.msg416612#msg416612)  with its comments on the enigmatic road sign  HADFIELD AND THE NORTH.
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: kitbasher on November 15, 2019, 03:25:24 am
I used to always wonder, when driving North up the M1, where "The North" officially started as no matter how far you went it still appeared on the signs as if you hadn't got there yet.

Starts at Finchley.
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: tigercat on November 15, 2019, 05:15:18 am
According to some it Starts at the non Watford Gap Watford .

Would an alternative  Green Godess fit the theme ?
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: Nick on November 15, 2019, 06:08:48 am
According to some it Starts at the non Watford Gap Watford .

Would an alternative  Green Godess fit the theme ?

Seeing as the Green Goddess fleet sat in storage in Lincs for decades barely seeing any use, then yes.
Or do you have another vehicle in mind? Ex-WW2 ladder trucks fighting fires in the 1990s?  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: kitnut617 on November 15, 2019, 06:12:05 am
and I do know people in Southampton who say the north of England is anywhere above the line of the M4.

I'd say that's a bit too far north   ;D  I'd say anything above town, in my case that would've been Poole   :wacko:
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: NARSES2 on November 15, 2019, 06:14:03 am
As far as I'm concerned the North starts on the far side of the Thames  ;) As for Manchester I almost convinced a resident of that fair city that it lay in the Midlands. It only just lies in the northern half of the mainland UK, had him quite worried for a while  ;D

As for Hadrian's Wall being basically in England ? That's why we have the Antonine one we can always use if and when necessary  ;)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonine_Wall (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonine_Wall)

Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: Nick on November 15, 2019, 07:10:28 am
I have an idea for a steam loco sent to the scrap yard in 1964 and later found in the 1990s under a pile of junk. Restored and put back into service on a preserved steam line. Wearing a new/retro style livery.

What do you think of this?
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: Rheged on November 15, 2019, 08:41:20 am
I'm with you on this, having already suggested  certain BR steam locos in current liveries.   DRS liveried Garrett, anyone ?

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=drs+livery&FORM=HDRSC2 (https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=drs+livery&FORM=HDRSC2)  DRS livery

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=garrett+locomotive&qs=CustomSearch&pq=garrett+loco&sc=8-12&cvid=9D35537DF3254302A6B66214BDEDD594&sp=1&form=QBIR (https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=garrett+locomotive&qs=CustomSearch&pq=garrett+loco&sc=8-12&cvid=9D35537DF3254302A6B66214BDEDD594&sp=1&form=QBIR)  Garrett loco.
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: Doug K on November 15, 2019, 10:07:59 am
It’s all south to me 😉

Isn't there a chunk of the wall in Newcastle?

I used to always wonder, when driving North up the M1, where "The North" officially started as no matter how far you went it still appeared on the signs as if you hadn't got there yet.

There's quite a lot of Wall in Newcastle, and I'm sure that our Geordie representative could be eloquent on this!  It's even under my mother in law's house in Carlisle.......she's not allowed to dig more than 1 metre down without getting a full archaeological team on site.

As to "The North", this is what a philosopher of my acquaintance calls a "Nebulous Concept".  It all depends where you live.  When I lived in Carlisle, people regarded anywhere north of a line drawn between York and Lancaster as "North" .  Manchester  and Liverpool get upset by this, as it puts them in the Midlands.  Many people in the south regard anything north of Watford Gap services as "The North"  and I do know people in Southampton who say the north of England is anywhere above the line of the M4.

It's all a matter of relatives (and where they live) as Einstein nearly said.

I would also refer you to a road sign portrayed in that magnificent diorama of   THE TRACK ROVER   https://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php?topic=26984.msg416612#msg416612 (https://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php?topic=26984.msg416612#msg416612)  with its comments on the enigmatic road sign  HADFIELD AND THE NORTH.
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: Weaver on November 15, 2019, 10:37:00 am
I would also refer you to a road sign portrayed in that magnificent diorama of   THE TRACK ROVER   https://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php?topic=26984.msg416612#msg416612 (https://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php?topic=26984.msg416612#msg416612)  with its comments on the enigmatic road sign  HADFIELD AND THE NORTH.

Never fails to amaze me how people remember that one: thank you.

Sadly the snow has yellowed on the diorama, making it unexhibitable without provoking coarse comment. One of these years I'll get around to revamping it, at which point I may even fix the spelling mistake... ;)


All of this stuff about "The North" is perfectly simple:

Lancashire, Cheshire, Merseyside, Derbyshire and the northern bit of Staffordshire are in the North West Of England, despite being south of Cumbria which is the most north-westerly county of England south of Scotland, while Northumberland, Durham and Tyne & Wear are in the North East Of England despite being just south of Scotland like Cumbria and north of Yorkshire which is as far north as Lancashire, Cheshire et al and therefore south of Cumbria. The only logical conclusion from this is that Cumbria and Yorkshire are not in England at all...

<ducks and runs...>



Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: joncarrfarrelly on November 15, 2019, 11:38:33 am
   ^^^^^^^
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: NARSES2 on November 16, 2019, 02:20:12 am
I have an idea for a steam loco sent to the scrap yard in 1964 and later found in the 1990s under a pile of junk. Restored and put back into service on a preserved steam line. Wearing a new/retro style livery.

What do you think of this?

 :thumbsup:

But to tweak it a bit. How about during one of the oil shortages of the period a still nationalised B.R. bring it back into service to run on one of the cross-country routes ? You could then have them trawling museums and preservation societies for more of the lovely old things  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: Nick on November 16, 2019, 05:10:47 am
I have an idea for a steam loco sent to the scrap yard in 1964 and later found in the 1990s under a pile of junk. Restored and put back into service on a preserved steam line. Wearing a new/retro style livery.

What do you think of this?

 :thumbsup:

But to tweak it a bit. How about during one of the oil shortages of the period a still nationalised B.R. bring it back into service to run on one of the cross-country routes ? You could then have them trawling museums and preservation societies for more of the lovely old things  :thumbsup:

That is one of my ideas - but the kit I'd use for that is half done already.
I'm thinking of something a little different, the kit arrives next week.  ;)

Have you read John Gardner's Golgotha? It's set in a 1970s where the USSR has taken all of Europe and Britain surrendered. The oil crisis leads to steam trains making a comeback.
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: McColm on November 16, 2019, 05:13:13 am
A Chinese retro model of the Wolseley Hornet or Riley Elf based on the BMW Mini Cooper seems doable.  Got the Revell 1/24 kit in the stash. Changes to the front grill and interior,  although those alloys may need changing as well.
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: NARSES2 on November 17, 2019, 06:05:10 am

Have you read John Gardner's Golgotha? It's set in a 1970s where the USSR has taken all of Europe and Britain surrendered. The oil crisis leads to steam trains making a comeback.

Not one I'm familiar with
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: PR19_Kit on November 17, 2019, 09:56:17 am

I'm with you on this, having already suggested  certain BR steam locos in current liveries.   DRS liveried Garrett, anyone ?

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=drs+livery&FORM=HDRSC2 (https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=drs+livery&FORM=HDRSC2)  DRS livery

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=garrett+locomotive&qs=CustomSearch&pq=garrett+loco&sc=8-12&cvid=9D35537DF3254302A6B66214BDEDD594&sp=1&form=QBIR (https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=garrett+locomotive&qs=CustomSearch&pq=garrett+loco&sc=8-12&cvid=9D35537DF3254302A6B66214BDEDD594&sp=1&form=QBIR)  Garrett loco.


Hmmmm, I have an unbuilt Kitmaster Garrett in The Loft too, along with at least one of all the other Kitmasters as well.

I rather fancy the idea of a Battle of Britain Class Bullied Pacific decked out in a modern day Southwest Trains Class 444 livery.
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: kitbasher on November 17, 2019, 02:53:20 pm
I’ve an idea for this GB.  Wasn’t going to join but I may.  Involves a ‘rejuvenation’ of an existing build, so I guess that’s sort of being taken out of retirement in itself.
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: McColm on December 04, 2019, 12:05:11 pm
I'm going with the revised 'BAe Nimrod MR.2P Plus' as India isn't too happy about the P-8 as some of the systems aren't performing as well as they predicted on the Boeing 737 aircraft.
Although the Nimrod AEW.3 never made it into service the idea of fitting a rotating radome only got as far as the concept stage,  the A-50 AWACS platform is also under review and a different aircraft is being sort after but using the avionics and software .
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: NARSES2 on January 14, 2020, 07:14:16 am
Just a couple of weeks to go lads and lasses.
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: kerick on January 18, 2020, 10:59:22 pm
Wouldn't most of the Area 88 machines qualify for this?
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: zenrat on January 19, 2020, 01:35:41 am
Wouldn't most of the Area 88 machines qualify for this?

Some would.  You'd have to check their retirement status.  MiG 21 for example.  I wouldn't be surprised if the Russian AF were still operating some of them in which case it has not been retired by it's initial user yet and so doesn't qualify.
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: scooter on January 19, 2020, 02:14:00 am
Wouldn't most of the Area 88 machines qualify for this?

Some would.  You'd have to check their retirement status.  MiG 21 for example.  I wouldn't be surprised if the Russian AF were still operating some of them in which case it has not been retired by it's initial user yet and so doesn't qualify.

Morris's T-6 definitely and Nguyen Van Com's F-105 more likely than not qualify.  But everyone else is flying fairly modern birds. 
Title: Re: Out of Retirement - Discussion thread
Post by: NARSES2 on February 21, 2020, 06:28:19 am
Gentlemen, many apologies but I am  away from home at the moment and my notepad is being non co-operative. I have locked the finished builds and will sort the rest out next Tuesday.

Once again apologies

Chris