What if

General Modelling Forum => General Modeling topics => The Idea Bank => Topic started by: chrisonord on July 30, 2019, 05:50:28 am

Title: Others uses for an Avro shackleton.
Post by: chrisonord on July 30, 2019, 05:50:28 am
I have  an old revell boxed frog shackleton mr3  in the stash  which I was going to  re-engine and  use it as a Honduras navy  patrol aircraft.  But... I have other plans  for  this one now.  In my new book of the RAF during the cold war,  they were being used as  patrol aircraft  along with  Malaysian/ Indonesian borders  during  1964, so perhaps  a counter insurgency  bomber/patrol  aircraft.  My version doesn't have the  20 mm hispano cannons , which  I would have preferred it to have,  so alternative guns will have to be sourced.  Under the wings I was  thinking of rockets and possibly a  pair of Bullpup missiles as they were available  during that time period.  My other  version I was thinking of was a  flying  test  bed for  new and developing British  air to air and air to ground  weapons  of the 1960's . The counter insurgency aircraft  will get the  grey green over light grey  camouflage,  like the victors were painted.  They also  got  used during the same  conflict.  Weapons of that era I will need to look in to also,  as my books are a bit  sparse  on that info.
Title: Re: Others uses for an Avro shackleton.
Post by: NARSES2 on July 30, 2019, 06:05:23 am
I like the idea of an armed counter insurgency Shack'
Title: Re: Others uses for an Avro shackleton.
Post by: Dizzyfugu on July 30, 2019, 06:28:17 am
A Shackleton gunship with miniguns in tghe flanks...? Why not? Could also have circled over the Falkland Islands and suppressed local groudn resistance during landing or SAR operations?
Title: Re: Others uses for an Avro shackleton.
Post by: PR19_Kit on July 30, 2019, 08:18:28 am
It's about time those Master guys in Poland did some of turned brass 20 mm cannons for Shacks, I could use a few pairs on my Northrop Northampton.
Title: Re: Others uses for an Avro shackleton.
Post by: Weaver on July 30, 2019, 09:03:27 am
Keep your eyes open at shows. When the new Airfix & Revell Shacks came out, a lot of folk dumped their old Revellofrog kits and the aftermarket bits they had. I picked up an Aeroclub Mk.3 - Mk.2 conversion for just 2. Turrets, guns, AEW radome, undercarriage, wheels: a lot of stuff for 2.
Title: Re: Others uses for an Avro shackleton.
Post by: chrisonord on July 30, 2019, 09:29:27 am
Keep your eyes open at shows. When the new Airfix & Revell Shacks came out, a lot of folk dumped their old Revellofrog kits and the aftermarket bits they had. I picked up an Aeroclub Mk.3 - Mk.2 conversion for just 2. Turrets, guns, AEW radome, undercarriage, wheels: a lot of stuff for 2.
I could  do with  some  of the  cannons for the front of this one I  have,   could  have a  go at making some  but  I  think I will  struggle  to get  them right.  Were SNEB pods in service  around the mid sixties  as I have a  few  spare  of those,  or would  individual  rockets  be more fitting. I  have  somewhere a gun pod that came with a  Canberra,  but  looking  at where the nose gear, and  weapons bay are, I  think  I will  struggle with  fitting it.
Chris.
Title: Re: Others uses for an Avro shackleton.
Post by: PR19_Kit on July 30, 2019, 09:43:27 am
How about rocket racks on each side of the nose like they fitted to B-24s and B-25s?

That'd be pretty ferocious.  ;D
Title: Re: Others uses for an Avro shackleton.
Post by: chrisonord on July 30, 2019, 12:22:32 pm
I have not seen or heard of that before  Kit, I  will have to  look  that up.
Chris
Title: Re: Others uses for an Avro shackleton.
Post by: kitnut617 on July 30, 2019, 12:37:29 pm
Like this Chris, Pavla does/did a conversion of it.

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/8f32c3cc-b11c-4024-8d0d-2944d18b86d1.jpg)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/73beb60d-5f50-4ea9-b7c7-0b3cbcb51a2f.jpg)
Title: Re: Others uses for an Avro shackleton.
Post by: chrisonord on July 30, 2019, 01:16:30 pm
Cheers  Robert,
I take it  they  put them  there for accuracy,  or just  to keep out of the  propellers.
Chris.
Title: Re: Others uses for an Avro shackleton.
Post by: kitnut617 on July 30, 2019, 03:12:48 pm
Not sure Chris
Title: Re: Others uses for an Avro shackleton.
Post by: The Wooksta! on July 30, 2019, 03:55:55 pm
Shackleton MR2s were plumbed in for underwing zero length rockets.  The attachment points are on both the Revell and Airfix kits.

The Frog kit never came with nose guns, despite being on the box.
Title: Re: Others uses for an Avro shackleton.
Post by: kitnut617 on July 30, 2019, 05:43:59 pm
The attachment points are on both the Revell and Airfix kits.

Hmmm!   so they are --- interesting
Title: Re: Others uses for an Avro shackleton.
Post by: McColm on July 31, 2019, 09:38:40 am
You could go down the Nene testbed route as the pods fitted very well under the Shackleton wings.
A cargo/freighter works as well,  I've gone down the civilian airliner route with a pair of turbofan engines.
The Shackleton does make a good platform for the Grumman E-1 and E-2 radomes.
I even built a twin boom-twin fin version once.
I think a firefighter variant would work as well.
Title: Re: Others uses for an Avro shackleton.
Post by: chrisonord on July 31, 2019, 09:57:22 am
You could go down the Nene testbed route as the pods fitted very well under the Shackleton wings.
A cargo/freighter works as well,  I've gone down the civilian airliner route with a pair of turbofan engines.
The Shackleton does make a good platform for the Grumman E-1 and E-2 radomes.
I even built a twin boom-twin fin version once.
I think a firefighter variant would work as well.
Some  good  ideas there, I  shall consider them.
Chris
Title: Re: Others uses for an Avro shackleton.
Post by: McColm on August 01, 2019, 11:47:15 am
Could be used as a  glider or club house,  I don't recommend the flying boat option but if you have two identical kits some kind of twin fuselage combo would work
Title: Re: Others uses for an Avro shackleton.
Post by: Weaver on August 01, 2019, 03:33:40 pm
1. There was a Nimrod R.1 for ELINT/SIGINT purposes. so how about a Shackleton R.1 for the same role with a range of different lumps and bumps? The Mk.3's wingtip pods would be particularly useful for this.

2. Shackleton AEW with a different aerial system:

Warning Star-style, with a 'conning tower' and dome
Tracker style with a fixed teardrop-shaped dorsal radome
Hawkeye-style rotordome
Early version of the Nimrod AEW's FASS system, with big radomes at the nose and tail
Title: Re: Others uses for an Avro shackleton.
Post by: McColm on August 01, 2019, 07:34:11 pm
Target tug
Camera ship
I think one of the whiffers tried the Navy version with folding wings the same as the Gannet.
I'm building a tailless version.
Title: Re: Others uses for an Avro shackleton.
Post by: Weaver on August 02, 2019, 12:49:36 am
Drone Launcher: the Canadians launched Firebee target drones from Lancasters, and Firebees were the basis of operational recce drones so all sorts of possibilities.
Title: Re: Others uses for an Avro shackleton.
Post by: Scotaidh on August 02, 2019, 01:37:27 am
RAF One ...
Title: Re: Others uses for an Avro shackleton.
Post by: Cobra on August 02, 2019, 02:23:15 am
have You thought about Using the Shackleton as an ASR Bird? that might work. Hope this Helps. Dan
Title: Re: Others uses for an Avro shackleton.
Post by: scooter on August 02, 2019, 02:26:02 am
Aerial reforestation (http://saforestryonline.co.za/articles/3047/) bomber?
Title: Re: Others uses for an Avro shackleton.
Post by: kitbasher on August 02, 2019, 03:31:29 am
Interesting suggestions.

The Shack was used on ASR/SAR missions, it could (and did) carry Lindholme gear in the bomb bay (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindholme_Gear)

Ditto as a land bomber in decolonialisation 'altercations', IIRC Aden/Oman.

During the Suez crisis it was also used on troop transport duties.
Title: Re: Others uses for an Avro shackleton.
Post by: zenrat on August 02, 2019, 04:48:43 am
Put a big ring on it like the magnetic minesweeping Wellingtons and call it an early MAD testbed.
Title: Re: Others uses for an Avro shackleton.
Post by: McColm on August 02, 2019, 10:42:05 am
Could be used to carry oversized loads.
Title: Re: Others uses for an Avro shackleton.
Post by: PR19_Kit on August 02, 2019, 12:30:03 pm

Could be used to carry oversized loads.


But a Beverley would make a much better job of it...........  ;D
Title: Re: Others uses for an Avro shackleton.
Post by: Rheged on August 02, 2019, 01:25:10 pm
Looking back at the multifarious roles filled by the "Great Contra-rotating Nissen Hut in the Sky" as described in sundry histories I have about me, I think about the only thing a Shackleton HASN'T done is interceptor fighter.......or will one of you prove me misinformed?
Title: Re: Others uses for an Avro shackleton.
Post by: chrisonord on August 02, 2019, 03:25:21 pm
Looking back at the multifarious roles filled by the "Great Contra-rotating Nissen Hut in the Sky" as described in sundry histories I have about me, I think about the only thing a Shackleton HASN'T done is interceptor fighter.......or will one of you prove me misinformed?
Air to air  missile  test bed? Air launched bloodhound  missiles perhaps
Chris.
Title: Re: Others uses for an Avro shackleton.
Post by: McColm on August 02, 2019, 08:43:57 pm
My tailless is a 6 engine turbofaned layout,  could be a testbed for missiles.  The nose has been flattened and the Lancastrian tail cone added to the Frog Avro Shackleton MR.3.  The twin tail fins are glued on the ends of the wings.
Title: Re: Others uses for an Avro shackleton.
Post by: NARSES2 on August 03, 2019, 02:00:34 am
Looking back at the multifarious roles filled by the "Great Contra-rotating Nissen Hut in the Sky" as described in sundry histories I have about me, I think about the only thing a Shackleton HASN'T done is interceptor fighter.......or will one of you prove me misinformed?

Given the size of some of the early Air to Air missile proposals you might have needed something the size of a Shack' to lift them.
Title: Re: Others uses for an Avro shackleton.
Post by: Weaver on August 03, 2019, 02:10:53 am

Could be used to carry oversized loads.


But a Beverley would make a much better job of it...........  ;D

Can you imagine asking Blackburn to build an aircraft to fly chunks of space rocket about.... :o
Title: Re: Others uses for an Avro shackleton.
Post by: Weaver on August 03, 2019, 02:12:57 am
Looking back at the multifarious roles filled by the "Great Contra-rotating Nissen Hut in the Sky" as described in sundry histories I have about me, I think about the only thing a Shackleton HASN'T done is interceptor fighter.......or will one of you prove me misinformed?

Given the size of some of the early Air to Air missile proposals you might have needed something the size of a Shack' to lift them.

Buy two of Freightdog's Canberra P.12 conversions, put one radome on each end and all four missiles under the wings... :wacko:
Title: Re: Others uses for an Avro shackleton.
Post by: chrisonord on August 03, 2019, 02:39:19 am
A pair of modified to suit Thunderbird missiles could  work. The shackleton would  have  a reasonable  standoff  distance  also.
Chris
Title: Re: Others uses for an Avro shackleton.
Post by: PR19_Kit on August 03, 2019, 03:31:23 am

Could be used to carry oversized loads.


But a Beverley would make a much better job of it...........  ;D

Can you imagine asking Blackburn to build an aircraft to fly chunks of space rocket about.... :o


Hmmm, a BeverGuppy? The mind truly BOGGLES!  :o :o :o
Title: Re: Others uses for an Avro shackleton.
Post by: Weaver on August 03, 2019, 03:38:23 am

Could be used to carry oversized loads.


But a Beverley would make a much better job of it...........  ;D

Can you imagine asking Blackburn to build an aircraft to fly chunks of space rocket about.... :o


Hmmm, a BeverGuppy? The mind truly BOGGLES!  :o :o :o

PMSL - now I've got a vision of a guppy with two huge teeth and a flat tail.... ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Others uses for an Avro shackleton.
Post by: The Wooksta! on August 03, 2019, 03:18:53 pm
A pair of modified to suit Thunderbird missiles could  work. The shackleton would  have  a reasonable  standoff  distance  also.
Chris

There was a plan for Vulcans to carry three or possibly four Bloodhounds in the air to air role over the atlantic.  I've seen the drawings.
Title: Re: Others uses for an Avro shackleton.
Post by: chrisonord on August 03, 2019, 04:01:19 pm
A pair of modified to suit Thunderbird missiles could  work. The shackleton would  have  a reasonable  standoff  distance  also.
Chris

There was a plan for Vulcans to carry three or possibly four Bloodhounds in the air to air role over the atlantic.  I've seen the drawings.
I vaguely remember  reading  that somewhere  ont tinterweb, I  think  the shackleton version  would  be plausible even if it was a bit slower,  but it could  stay on station  for quite a while
Chris
Title: Re: Others uses for an Avro shackleton.
Post by: Nick on August 07, 2019, 01:48:06 am
Looking back at the multifarious roles filled by the "Great Contra-rotating Nissen Hut in the Sky" as described in sundry histories I have about me, I think about the only thing a Shackleton HASN'T done is interceptor fighter.......or will one of you prove me misinformed?

Add AIM-9s like they did to the Nimrods in the South Atlantic. Say it's to protect against the Yak-38s in the GIUK gap.
Title: Re: Others uses for an Avro shackleton.
Post by: Weaver on August 07, 2019, 04:02:00 am
Looking back at the multifarious roles filled by the "Great Contra-rotating Nissen Hut in the Sky" as described in sundry histories I have about me, I think about the only thing a Shackleton HASN'T done is interceptor fighter.......or will one of you prove me misinformed?

Add AIM-9s like they did to the Nimrods in the South Atlantic. Say it's to protect against the Yak-38s in the GIUK gap.

Put a Phantom's AN/AWG-12 in the tail cone and put Sparrows under the wings.
Title: Re: Others uses for an Avro shackleton.
Post by: scooter on August 07, 2019, 05:46:09 am
Looking back at the multifarious roles filled by the "Great Contra-rotating Nissen Hut in the Sky" as described in sundry histories I have about me, I think about the only thing a Shackleton HASN'T done is interceptor fighter.......or will one of you prove me misinformed?

Add AIM-9s like they did to the Nimrods in the South Atlantic. Say it's to protect against the Yak-38s in the GIUK gap.

Put a Phantom's AN/AWG-12 in the tail cone and put Sparrows under the wings.

Aft facing?