What if

General Modelling Forum => General Modeling topics => The Idea Bank => Topic started by: chrisonord on July 21, 2019, 01:56:17 pm

Title: English Electric Canberra interceptor.
Post by: chrisonord on July 21, 2019, 01:56:17 pm
As this was also a real world  proposal  being  armed with a pair of rather rotund  missiles, I was  thinking of  building my own version of  an in service  Canberra interceptor.  I  am thinking of  using  the Martin  B 57 version  though,  mainly  because of the  cockpit and canopy  arrangement.  Better  all round view,  and  better for the  crews  in case they needed to  eject. Also,  larger or different  shaped  intakes and  exhaust nozzles,  as the aircraft  could  benefit from more powerful engines, and  also  maybe a new nose  for the necessary  radar  . I think  I  will  arm it wi3 a pair  of large  missiles,  possibly  some  modified  Soviet  era air to air missiles,  suitably  hacked up. I shall  name  said  missiles,  tweed squirrel.. :wacko:
Chris
Title: Re: English Electric Canberra interceptor.
Post by: PR19_Kit on July 21, 2019, 03:18:49 pm
Graft in some engines from a PR9, OODLES more power then.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: English Electric Canberra interceptor.
Post by: chrisonord on July 21, 2019, 04:11:50 pm
I will have to have a look at what I  have  in the bits boxes,  I have an xtrakit Canberra,  that is a  PR version  but not sure of the  version it is.
Chris
Title: Re: English Electric Canberra interceptor.
Post by: Weaver on July 21, 2019, 04:24:57 pm
The B-57 pilot was sat quite near the front, without very much nose in front of him. To fit a bigger radar, you'll have to extend the nose and blend the shape into the existing taper of the fuselage: think B-57G but with a pointier radome. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: English Electric Canberra interceptor.
Post by: rickshaw on July 21, 2019, 05:35:09 pm
Chris, you might want to look at my F-114 Dragon fighter version of the B-57 (https://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php?topic=44119.msg777901#msg777901).

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/924/IHQG5T.jpg)
Title: Re: English Electric Canberra interceptor.
Post by: kerick on July 21, 2019, 05:50:34 pm
You could use whatever Canberra kit that has the biggest engines and then add a B-57 front fuselage or just add the cockpit and canopy from some appropriate two seater such as a Phantom or T-33 type.

This looks really interesting! I'll be watching this one!

Hmmm.... an F-4C/D has a nice fat nose.....
Title: Re: English Electric Canberra interceptor.
Post by: KJ_Lesnick on July 21, 2019, 09:28:46 pm
Why not just fit it with nuclear tipped missiles?  If you're going to haul missiles that big around, you might as well make 'em count with the highest P/k
Title: Re: English Electric Canberra interceptor.
Post by: PR19_Kit on July 22, 2019, 01:20:52 am
The Xtrakit PR Canberra is a PR9, yes.

And a PR9 has by FAR the most powerful engines of a 'standard' Canberra. They tended to take-off at 80% throttle even with a full fuel load.

Of course the various test-bed aircraft had even larger ones, probably the most powerful being the Olympus Canberra.
Title: Re: English Electric Canberra interceptor.
Post by: Scotaidh on July 22, 2019, 01:25:49 am
Why not just fit it with nuclear tipped missiles?  If you're going to haul missiles that big around, you might as well make 'em count with the highest P/k

Why not just fill the bomb bay with AAMRAAMs?  A two double-tier rotary launchers should have enough capacity to ruin the day for an opposing squadron's worth of aircraft ...
Title: Re: English Electric Canberra interceptor.
Post by: Hobbes on July 22, 2019, 02:34:15 am
Have you seen the Freightdog Canberra fighter conversion?

https://www.freightdogmodels.co.uk/freightdog-1-72-ee-canberra-p-12-all-weather-fighter-project-conversion.html (https://www.freightdogmodels.co.uk/freightdog-1-72-ee-canberra-p-12-all-weather-fighter-project-conversion.html)
Title: Re: English Electric Canberra interceptor.
Post by: chrisonord on July 22, 2019, 02:42:35 am
Why not just fit it with nuclear tipped missiles?  If you're going to haul missiles that big around, you might as well make 'em count with the highest P/k

Why not just fill the bomb bay with AAMRAAMs?  A two double-tier rotary launchers should have enough capacity to ruin the day for an opposing squadron's worth of aircraft ...
Hya  Scott,  the aircraft will be in a 1950's early 60's time line,  so a long time  before  the aim 120. I want to  arm it with missiles  from that period,  hence the large tweed squirrel  or for the super sonic aircraft,  tweed Bishop missiles. Nuclear  tipped missiles would be  the very last choice  given  where the aircraft will be based. Rickshaw,  your  F-114 is something  like  what I  want to do , part based on a version  in a book I have,  and  part based on the practicality of the  B 57 cockpit.
Chris
Title: Re: English Electric Canberra interceptor.
Post by: PR19_Kit on July 22, 2019, 05:23:38 am
Red Deans, that's the way to go on the missile front. The Canberra's possibly the ONLY aircraft large enough to carry the darn things!

I've been whittling away at doing something similar for ages now, it was intended for the Cold War GB over a year ago, but as is often the case with my projects it got stalled on some irritating small problem. It's going to be armed with two Red Deans on wing pylons, six Firestreaks in modified F-89H wing pod tanks, and if all else fails, two Genies carried in the bomb bay on F-102 trapeze mounts.  ;D

https://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php?topic=44957.0 (https://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php?topic=44957.0)

Oh yeah, it started off with PR9 engines and wings too, but I upgraded them to some theoretical RR turbofan.
Title: Re: English Electric Canberra interceptor.
Post by: chrisonord on July 22, 2019, 05:42:38 am
Red Deans, that's the way to go on the missile front. The Canberra's possibly the ONLY aircraft large enough to carry the darn things!

I've been whittling away at doing something similar for ages now, it was intended for the Cold War GB over a year ago, but as is often the case with my projects it got stalled on some irritating small problem. It's going to be armed with two Red Deans on wing pylons, six Firestreaks in modified F-89H wing pod tanks, and if all else fails, two Genies carried in the bomb bay on F-102 trapeze mounts.  ;D

https://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php?topic=44957.0 (https://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php?topic=44957.0)

Oh yeah, it started off with PR9 engines and wings too, but I upgraded them to some theoretical RR turbofan.
I think  making the  intakes and  exhaust  different  enough  will be the biggest  challenge  without  going  silly,  I  think  I  will look at  aircraft  that flew high subsonic, and  see if their  intakes are  scratch buildable. Missile wise, just  a pair either under the wings or on the wing tips.  The tweed  squirrel  will be a competitor to the  red deans. Modified  R-40 's will make  suitable  missiles  I  think,  changing the  fins and  round  off the nose of them will work.
Chris.
Title: Re: English Electric Canberra interceptor.
Post by: NARSES2 on July 22, 2019, 06:04:38 am
Why not just fit it with nuclear tipped missiles?  If you're going to haul missiles that big around, you might as well make 'em count with the highest P/k

You really don't want to be using nuclear tipped missiles anywhere near, let alone over, a crowded island like Great Britain.
Title: Re: English Electric Canberra interceptor.
Post by: chrisonord on July 22, 2019, 06:20:42 am
My thoughts  exactly  Chris.  I have a  pair of Genies on my Avro Archer,  but that is  based on Germany,  or Greenland.
Chris.
Title: Re: English Electric Canberra interceptor.
Post by: McColm on July 22, 2019, 01:48:59 pm
The Mach2 kit would be ideal as any improvement would be beneficial  :banghead:
Title: Re: English Electric Canberra interceptor.
Post by: The Rat on July 22, 2019, 07:06:29 pm
Red Deans, that's the way to go on the missile front. The Canberra's possibly the ONLY aircraft large enough to carry the darn things!

From The Empire's Twilight, https://thempirestwilight.fandom.com/wiki/Red_Dean_AAM (https://thempirestwilight.fandom.com/wiki/Red_Dean_AAM):

(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/thempirestwilight/images/8/82/188766_1799809947335_1002386707_2078047_5560093_n.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20120524185349)
Title: Re: English Electric Canberra interceptor.
Post by: Weaver on July 23, 2019, 02:05:53 am
Why not just fit it with nuclear tipped missiles?  If you're going to haul missiles that big around, you might as well make 'em count with the highest P/k

You really don't want to be using nuclear tipped missiles anywhere near, let alone over, a crowded island like Great Britain.

Well according to the only test of a live Genie ever conducted, it's perfectly safe to stand uder one exploding at 20,000 feet...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Plumbbob

The RAF wanted Genies for the Lightning force. The only reason they didn't get them was that UK-produced fissile material was in too short supply to use it in 'tactical' weapons.
Title: Re: English Electric Canberra interceptor.
Post by: zenrat on July 23, 2019, 02:58:26 am
How about a Canberra GB next year?
I'll put it on my list of suggestions to make.
Title: Re: English Electric Canberra interceptor.
Post by: NARSES2 on July 23, 2019, 05:49:22 am

Well according to the only test of a live Genie ever conducted, it's perfectly safe to stand uder one exploding at 20,000 feet...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Plumbbob


Better them than me is all I can say.
Title: Re: English Electric Canberra interceptor.
Post by: chrisonord on July 23, 2019, 11:18:07 am
Just  rooted out  the Canberra kits i have,  one  Pr9 2 B 57 G's and  and  a R/B 57 A/B. The RB is the Airfix one  and  the kit has two different  noses for the  two versions,  thus making  it easier for me to put a bigger  more  suitable  radar  nose  on it. Time period  dictates  a camouflage  scheme  with either  NMF undersides, or perhaps  light grey.  Two Red Deans  should  be easy to  scratch  from the bits boxes.
Chris.
Title: Re: English Electric Canberra interceptor.
Post by: kitnut617 on July 23, 2019, 01:15:43 pm
Just  rooted out  the Canberra kits i have,  one  Pr9 2 B 57 G's and  and  a R/B 57 A/B. The RB is the Airfix one  and  the kit has two different  noses for the  two versions,  thus making  it easier for me to put a bigger  more  suitable  radar  nose  on it. Time period  dictates  a camouflage  scheme  with either  NMF undersides, or perhaps  light grey.  Two Red Deans  should  be easy to  scratch  from the bits boxes.
Chris.

Colin (freightdog) has Red Deans Chris
Title: Re: English Electric Canberra interceptor.
Post by: chrisonord on July 23, 2019, 01:29:48 pm
Just  rooted out  the Canberra kits i have,  one  Pr9 2 B 57 G's and  and  a R/B 57 A/B. The RB is the Airfix one  and  the kit has two different  noses for the  two versions,  thus making  it easier for me to put a bigger  more  suitable  radar  nose  on it. Time period  dictates  a camouflage  scheme  with either  NMF undersides, or perhaps  light grey.  Two Red Deans  should  be easy to  scratch  from the bits boxes.
Chris.

Colin (freightdog) has Red Deans Chris
Cheers Robert,  I think I will need quite a few as I  want  to do a scratch  build and a kitbash with some  on it, I  might  yet get  the set he has for  thus build  yet, as the included nose could  make  things  easier for me.
Chris.
Title: Re: English Electric Canberra interceptor.
Post by: kitnut617 on July 23, 2019, 02:20:06 pm
Just  rooted out  the Canberra kits i have,  one  Pr9 2 B 57 G's and  and  a R/B 57 A/B. The RB is the Airfix one  and  the kit has two different  noses for the  two versions,  thus making  it easier for me to put a bigger  more  suitable  radar  nose  on it. Time period  dictates  a camouflage  scheme  with either  NMF undersides, or perhaps  light grey.  Two Red Deans  should  be easy to  scratch  from the bits boxes.
Chris.

Colin (freightdog) has Red Deans Chris
Cheers Robert,  I think I will need quite a few as I  want  to do a scratch  build and a kitbash with some  on it, I  might  yet get  the set he has for  thus build  yet, as the included nose could  make  things  easier for me.
Chris.

When Colin first came out with the Red Deans, I bought eight of them plus eight Firestreaks. All for various planned projects which have yet to materialize  ;D
Title: Re: English Electric Canberra interceptor.
Post by: chrisonord on July 23, 2019, 03:51:19 pm
Can never have  too many erm.....red deans ;D ;D
I am going to make  some  of my own versions of  British air to air missiles,  with not  so serious names  as I  have  a load of missile  bodies and  a load of large Russian  missiles  that can be modified.  Tweed  squirrel,  Taupe Bishop being  two of their names  :-X ;D
Chris
Title: Re: English Electric Canberra interceptor.
Post by: Gondor on July 24, 2019, 01:47:34 am
Red Deans..... Not part of the Spanish Inquisition are they?  :rolleyes:

Gondor
Title: Re: English Electric Canberra interceptor.
Post by: chrisonord on July 24, 2019, 02:51:56 am
Red Deans..... Not part of the Spanish Inquisition are they?  :rolleyes:

Gondor
If they were, nobody expected them.
Chris.
Title: Re: English Electric Canberra interceptor.
Post by: NARSES2 on July 24, 2019, 05:44:24 am
Red Deans..... Not part of the Spanish Inquisition are they?  :rolleyes:

Gondor
If they were, nobody expected them.
Chris.

Seriously quips like that could get you put in the naughty box and you could keep Zenrat company  ;) ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: English Electric Canberra interceptor.
Post by: chrisonord on July 24, 2019, 08:55:02 am
Red Deans..... Not part of the Spanish Inquisition are they?  :rolleyes:

Gondor
If they were, nobody expected them.
Chris.

Seriously quips like that could get you put in the naughty box and you could keep Zenrat company  ;) ;D ;D ;D
Will there be comfy  cushions there Chris  :wacko:
Chris
Title: Re: English Electric Canberra interceptor.
Post by: Rheged on July 24, 2019, 09:27:53 am
Can never have  too many erm.....red deans ;D ;D
I am going to make  some  of my own versions of  British air to air missiles,  with not  so serious names  as I  have  a load of missile  bodies and  a load of large Russian  missiles  that can be modified.  Tweed  squirrel,  Taupe Bishop being  two of their names  :-X ;D
Chris

There's a whole raft of butterfly names you could use as rainbow code names: Scarlet emperor, cabbage white, yellow tip and even dingy skipper!   More listed  here:-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_butterflies_of_Great_Britain (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_butterflies_of_Great_Britain)
Title: Re: English Electric Canberra interceptor.
Post by: joncarrfarrelly on July 24, 2019, 11:05:31 am
Red Deans..... Not part of the Spanish Inquisition are they?  :rolleyes:

Gondor

Weren't they on faculty at Cambridge?  :wacko:
Title: Re: English Electric Canberra interceptor.
Post by: NARSES2 on July 25, 2019, 05:42:59 am
Red Deans..... Not part of the Spanish Inquisition are they?  :rolleyes:

Gondor
If they were, nobody expected them.
Chris.

Seriously quips like that could get you put in the naughty box and you could keep Zenrat company  ;) ;D ;D ;D
Will there be comfy  cushions there Chris  :wacko:
Chris

Define comfy ?  ;)
Title: Re: English Electric Canberra interceptor.
Post by: chrisonord on July 25, 2019, 07:50:21 am
 ;D ;D ;D
Red Deans..... Not part of the Spanish Inquisition are they?  :rolleyes:

Gondor
If they were, nobody expected them.
Chris.

Seriously quips like that could get you put in the naughty box and you could keep Zenrat company  ;) ;D ;D ;D
Will there be comfy  cushions there Chris  :wacko:
Chris

Define comfy ?  ;)
;D ;D  ;D ;D
Title: Re: English Electric Canberra interceptor.
Post by: Weaver on July 25, 2019, 11:00:33 pm
Can never have  too many erm.....red deans ;D ;D
I am going to make  some  of my own versions of  British air to air missiles,  with not  so serious names  as I  have  a load of missile  bodies and  a load of large Russian  missiles  that can be modified.  Tweed  squirrel,  Taupe Bishop being  two of their names  :-X ;D
Chris


Given that Red Dean weighed 1300lbs and was 16ft long, you're looking at what's basically an air-to-air Exocet, so don't limit yourself to 'proper' air-to-air missiles as donors.
Title: Re: English Electric Canberra interceptor.
Post by: chrisonord on July 25, 2019, 11:16:10 pm
Can never have  too many erm.....red deans ;D ;D
I am going to make  some  of my own versions of  British air to air missiles,  with not  so serious names  as I  have  a load of missile  bodies and  a load of large Russian  missiles  that can be modified.  Tweed  squirrel,  Taupe Bishop being  two of their names  :-X ;D
Chris


Given that Red Dean weighed 1300lbs and was 16ft long, you're looking at what's basically an air-to-air Exocet, so don't limit yourself to 'proper' air-to-air missiles as donors.
Hya H, I  also have some  kormoran bodies that should fit the bill, and  some Harpoon bodies  too. I  will have a go at building  something very similar  to red hebe too.
Chris.
Title: Re: English Electric Canberra interceptor.
Post by: zenrat on July 26, 2019, 02:02:12 am
1/48 missiles make for a good basis for large 1/72 missiles.

Red Deans..... Not part of the Spanish Inquisition are they?  :rolleyes:

Gondor
If they were, nobody expected them.
Chris.

Seriously quips like that could get you put in the naughty box and you could keep Zenrat company  ;) ;D ;D ;D
Will there be comfy  cushions there Chris  :wacko:
Chris

Define comfy ?  ;)

Don't worry Chris, i've burnt all the former church pews Chris furnished the naughty box with and replaced them with bean bags, an esky, a deep fat fryer, hot and cold running nymphettes and a PS4.   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: English Electric Canberra interceptor.
Post by: NARSES2 on July 26, 2019, 06:12:37 am
1/48 missiles make for a good basis for large 1/72 missiles.

Red Deans..... Not part of the Spanish Inquisition are they?  :rolleyes:

Gondor
If they were, nobody expected them.
Chris.

Seriously quips like that could get you put in the naughty box and you could keep Zenrat company  ;) ;D ;D ;D
Will there be comfy  cushions there Chris  :wacko:
Chris

Define comfy ?  ;)

Don't worry Chris, i've burnt all the former church pews Chris furnished the naughty box with and replaced them with bean bags, an esky, a deep fat fryer, hot and cold running nymphettes and a PS4.   :thumbsup:

Yes but you seem to have failed to notice that the cells have two pin, round plug sockets  :wacko:
Title: Re: English Electric Canberra interceptor.
Post by: Rheged on July 26, 2019, 08:59:56 am
1/48 missiles make for a good basis for large 1/72 missiles.

Red Deans..... Not part of the Spanish Inquisition are they?  :rolleyes:

Gondor
If they were, nobody expected them.
Chris.

Seriously quips like that could get you put in the naughty box and you could keep Zenrat company  ;) ;D ;D ;D
Will there be comfy  cushions there Chris  :wacko:
Chris

Define comfy ?  ;)

Don't worry Chris, i've burnt all the former church pews Chris furnished the naughty box with and replaced them with bean bags, an esky, a deep fat fryer, hot and cold running nymphettes and a PS4.   :thumbsup:

Yes but you seem to have failed to notice that the cells have two pin, round plug sockets  :wacko:

Given a knife to peel back the insulation and a couple of matchsticks, we can overcome that small difficulty.
Title: Re: English Electric Canberra interceptor.
Post by: NARSES2 on July 27, 2019, 02:25:48 am

Given a knife to peel back the insulation and a couple of matchsticks, we can overcome that small difficulty.

Ah 3 to a cell now is it ?  ;) Do you really think we let our "guests" have access to spoons ? Let alone knives and forks  :wacko:
Title: Re: English Electric Canberra interceptor.
Post by: zenrat on July 27, 2019, 04:19:00 am

Given a knife to peel back the insulation and a couple of matchsticks, we can overcome that small difficulty.

Ah 3 to a cell now is it ?  ;) Do you really think we let our "guests" have access to spoons ? Let alone knives and forks  :wacko:

(https://jackholesrealm.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/thereisnospoon.jpg)
Title: Re: English Electric Canberra interceptor.
Post by: Geoff on August 05, 2019, 07:33:48 am
Being a lazy git I had thought of using 1/48th Firestreaks on a 1/72nd Can.
Title: Re: English Electric Canberra interceptor.
Post by: Old Wombat on August 05, 2019, 07:39:02 am
Being a lazy git I had thought of using 1/48th Firestreaks on a 1/72nd Can.

That's not lazy! That's Scale-orama! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: English Electric Canberra interceptor.
Post by: chrisonord on August 05, 2019, 08:09:10 am
Being a lazy git I had thought of using 1/48th Firestreaks on a 1/72nd Can.

That's not lazy! That's Scale-orama! :thumbsup:
Totally agree, why not make  bigger versions of the firestreak for  attacking  bomber formations
Chris
Title: Re: English Electric Canberra interceptor.
Post by: PR19_Kit on August 05, 2019, 08:25:57 am

Totally agree, why not make  bigger versions of the firestreak for  attacking  bomber formations


That'd be a Red Dean then.  ;D
Title: Re: English Electric Canberra interceptor.
Post by: chrisonord on August 05, 2019, 11:48:41 am

Totally agree, why not make  bigger versions of the firestreak for  attacking  bomber formations


That'd be a Red Dean then.  ;D
Or tweed  squirrel  ;D ;D ;D
Chris
Title: Re: English Electric Canberra interceptor.
Post by: Scotaidh on August 06, 2019, 01:34:47 am

Totally agree, why not make  bigger versions of the firestreak for  attacking  bomber formations


That'd be a Red Dean then.  ;D
Or tweed  squirrel  ;D ;D ;D
Chris

if we're making up names, then possibly a velvet manatee?
Title: Re: English Electric Canberra interceptor.
Post by: chrisonord on August 06, 2019, 03:07:39 am
I think  that would be a food name for a standoff nuclear  tipped anti ship missile :thumbsup:
Chris
Title: Re: English Electric Canberra interceptor.
Post by: zenrat on August 06, 2019, 03:20:00 am
The budget version would be Nylon Dugong.
Title: Re: English Electric Canberra interceptor.
Post by: Old Wombat on August 06, 2019, 03:30:12 am
The budget version would be Nylon Dugong.

Dacron Dugong? :unsure:
Title: Re: English Electric Canberra interceptor.
Post by: zenrat on August 06, 2019, 04:20:08 am
Velour Sea-Cow?
Title: Re: English Electric Canberra interceptor.
Post by: Geoff on August 06, 2019, 11:32:32 am

Totally agree, why not make  bigger versions of the firestreak for  attacking  bomber formations


That'd be a Red Dean then.  ;D

Well pretty close I thought, and it's just different enough to be a development of the prototypes - just a thought