What if

GROUP BUILDS => The Engines - More or Less G.B. => Topic started by: NARSES2 on June 18, 2019, 06:58:02 am

Title: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: NARSES2 on June 18, 2019, 06:58:02 am
Right gents here's the draft rules for your perusal. Couple of weeks to sort out/confirm before we kick off.

Chris

1. This GB runs from the 1st July 2019 until midnight of 30th September 2019, all timings are local.

Extensions will be considered in the normal way nearer the date.

2. Quite simply your build must include/involve the addition of an engine/engines or the subtraction of an engine/engines from whatever is your starting point. So in simple terms turn a single engined aircraft into a twin engined one or maybe a tri-motor into a bi-motor ?

3. Models, drawings, artwork and stories are all eligible.

4. Models already started are allowed as long as major building work has not started before the GB begins. Check with the Moderators. 

5. Finished models and profiles to be posted (with picture and link to build thread) in the finished builds thread within the overall GB thread in this Board. Please do not post comments in the finished builds thread.

6. Have FUN. 

8. Moderators are Rickshaw and PR19 Kit.

9. There is no rule 7, don't EVER ask about rule 7 (O.K. so sometimes it’s Rule 6 that doesn't get mentioned, but Rule 7 had a right moan about being overworked last time out so I gave in ).
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: perttime on June 18, 2019, 09:57:28 am
Just a random thought:
I suppose Rule 2 would cover adding engine(s) to a subject that never had any, or removing all engines from a subject that had one (or more).
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: PR19_Kit on June 18, 2019, 10:25:30 am
It does indeed, either of those scenarios is acceptable.
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: kerick on June 18, 2019, 01:00:50 pm
How about changing the type of engines? Prop to jet? Turbo prop to warp drive? Maybe as long as it includes changing the number of engines?
Assuming C-130s will be built forever a Federation model with warp drive engines popped into my head.
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: PR19_Kit on June 18, 2019, 03:45:00 pm
The mods will discuss that idea and get back to you.
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: jalles on June 18, 2019, 04:09:22 pm
How about changing the type of engines? Prop to jet?

I'd like to know this as well, I was thinking of going from twin turboprop to four jets.
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: zenrat on June 18, 2019, 04:14:14 pm
In the 2017 1WGB Tophe posted this pic combining Mustangs and Dinahs.
(http://www.kristofmeunier.fr/P82-51C5_ae.jpg)
I have been planning since then to build the left hand one.  Is it eligible for this GB?
I strongly believe it is a Mustang with two engines (in line with Tophe's goal of drawing every possible Mustang variation) even if about 2/3 of the plastic will be Dinah.

Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: PR19_Kit on June 18, 2019, 04:38:05 pm

How about changing the type of engines? Prop to jet? Turbo prop to warp drive? Maybe as long as it includes changing the number of engines?
Assuming C-130s will be built forever a Federation model with warp drive engines popped into my head.


Yes, that's fine.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: PR19_Kit on June 18, 2019, 04:39:23 pm

I have been planning since then to build the left hand one.  Is it eligible for this GB?
I strongly believe it is a Mustang with two engines (in line with Tophe's goal of drawing every possible Mustang variation) even if about 2/3 of the plastic will be Dinah.


And he's doing every IMpossible variation too!  ;D

And yes, you're good to go with that idea Fred.
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: TheChronicOne on June 18, 2019, 05:21:21 pm
Oh yes!! This is perfect. I was already planning a quad engined super-stretch Caravelle so I'll do it here.  ;D
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: The Rat on June 18, 2019, 05:41:05 pm
There is actually a rule 6.

I feel a great disturbance in The Force.
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: kerick on June 18, 2019, 08:02:40 pm
Now I need a small scale C-130!
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: Weaver on June 19, 2019, 12:06:11 am
Does an additional engine or engines have to be an integral part of the structure? If not, then the addition of RATO bottles or a ZELL booster to just about anything could count as 'adding an engine'...
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: zenrat on June 19, 2019, 03:04:13 am

I have been planning since then to build the left hand one.  Is it eligible for this GB?
I strongly believe it is a Mustang with two engines (in line with Tophe's goal of drawing every possible Mustang variation) even if about 2/3 of the plastic will be Dinah.


And he's doing every IMpossible variation too!  ;D

And yes, you're good to go with that idea Fred.

Cool.  I'll order more filler...
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: Mossie on June 19, 2019, 05:29:50 am
Hmm, a long abandoned idea comes to mind.
 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: PR19_Kit on June 19, 2019, 05:44:05 am

Does an additional engine or engines have to be an integral part of the structure? If not, then the addition of RATO bottles or a ZELL booster to just about anything could count as 'adding an engine'...


Boosters like that almost certainly WOULDN'T count as an extra engine, but I'll consult with my fellow mod and report back.
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: NARSES2 on June 19, 2019, 06:45:00 am
There is actually a rule 6.

I feel a great disturbance in The Force.


Yea, but as I said I was getting complaints from various on-line groups and other "focus"groups that I was persecuting the poor thing, so......... :angel: :angel:
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: PR19_Kit on June 20, 2019, 12:42:39 am

Does an additional engine or engines have to be an integral part of the structure? If not, then the addition of RATO bottles or a ZELL booster to just about anything could count as 'adding an engine'...


Boosters like that almost certainly WOULDN'T count as an extra engine, but I'll consult with my fellow mod and report back.


We've discussed this and decided that extra 'drop-off ' engines of any sort won't be allowed. Any extra engines must be an integral part of the airframe, but strut supported ones, as on the Ford Tri-motor etc. are allowable.
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: Weaver on June 20, 2019, 12:59:07 am

Does an additional engine or engines have to be an integral part of the structure? If not, then the addition of RATO bottles or a ZELL booster to just about anything could count as 'adding an engine'...


Boosters like that almost certainly WOULDN'T count as an extra engine, but I'll consult with my fellow mod and report back.


We've discussed this and decided that extra 'drop-off ' engines of any sort won't be allowed. Any extra engines must be an integral part of the airframe, but strut supported ones, as on the Ford Tri-motor etc. are allowable.

Okay thanks for that, and don't worry, I'm not going to be testing the limits of this in anything I build.

Just to play devil's advocate though, what about the RATO boosters on a B-47 Stratojet? They were only used for take-off assistance and expended all their solid fuel in the process (just like a strap-on RATO unit), BUT they were an integral part of the airframe and remained attached to it throughout the flight. By the same token, what about the braking rockets fitted to the Credible Sport C-130s (the one intended for the Iranian hostage rescue)? They were also an integral part of the airframe (well allegedly...) and were carried for the whole flight, but were only used to slow the aircraft down on landing... :wacko:

Can I also suggest a route out of this minefield?

"Any extra engines fitted must be a permanent part of the airframe, and must be for use DURING FLIGHT, i.e. after take-off and before landing. They don't have to be running all the time during flight."
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: ericr on June 20, 2019, 01:15:06 am
In the 2017 1WGB Tophe posted this pic combining Mustangs and Dinahs.
(http://www.kristofmeunier.fr/P82-51C5_ae.jpg)
I have been planning since then to build the left hand one.  Is it eligible for this GB?
I strongly believe it is a Mustang with two engines (in line with Tophe's goal of drawing every possible Mustang variation) even if about 2/3 of the plastic will be Dinah.

 :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: NARSES2 on June 20, 2019, 06:23:04 am

Can I also suggest a route out of this minefield?

"Any extra engines fitted must be a permanent part of the airframe, and must be for use DURING FLIGHT, i.e. after take-off and before landing. They don't have to be running all the time during flight."

Did you train as a lawyer ?  ;D ;D

I'm more then happy to add that to the proposed rules if that's what the Moderators would like ?
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: PR19_Kit on June 20, 2019, 06:25:47 am

Just to play devil's advocate though, what about the RATO boosters on a B-47 Stratojet? They were only used for take-off assistance and expended all their solid fuel in the process (just like a strap-on RATO unit), BUT they were an integral part of the airframe and remained attached to it throughout the flight. By the same token, what about the braking rockets fitted to the Credible Chase C-130s (the one intended for the Iranian hostage rescue)? They were also an integral part of the airframe (well allegedly...) and were carried for the whole flight, but were only used to slow the aircraft down on landing... :wacko:


Neither of those would count as they're not added to an airframe with less engines, they're already there in the RW, so unless they have even MORE engines they don't count.
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: Tophe on June 20, 2019, 10:40:12 am
I have been planning since then to build the left hand one.  Is it eligible for this GB?
I strongly believe it is a Mustang with two engines (in line with Tophe's goal of drawing every possible Mustang variation) even if about 2/3 of the plastic will be Dinah.
And he's doing every IMpossible variation too!  ;D
And yes, you're good to go with that idea Fred.
Thanks zenrat! Thanks Kit! ;D
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: kerick on June 20, 2019, 01:42:30 pm
What about a Saturn 5? Those engines fall off in normal flight! :wacko: :wacko:
Hmmmm..... Saturn 5 with space shuttle solid fuel boosters?
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: PR19_Kit on June 20, 2019, 01:46:24 pm

What about a Saturn 5? Those engines fall off in normal flight! :wacko: :wacko:
Hmmmm..... Saturn 5 with space shuttle solid fuel boosters?


No to the first idea, it's NOT changing the number of engines, but maybe yes to the second.
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: Weaver on June 20, 2019, 04:40:25 pm

Just to play devil's advocate though, what about the RATO boosters on a B-47 Stratojet? They were only used for take-off assistance and expended all their solid fuel in the process (just like a strap-on RATO unit), BUT they were an integral part of the airframe and remained attached to it throughout the flight. By the same token, what about the braking rockets fitted to the Credible Chase C-130s (the one intended for the Iranian hostage rescue)? They were also an integral part of the airframe (well allegedly...) and were carried for the whole flight, but were only used to slow the aircraft down on landing... :wacko:


Neither of those would count as they're not added to an airframe with less engines, they're already there in the RW, so unless they have even MORE engines they don't count.

No but my point is, what about whiff equivalents of the same things? A Tu-16 with B-47-style RATO 'farms'? French hostages rather than American ones in Tehran, leading to a C-160 Transall being modified with Credible Sport-style gear?
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: PR19_Kit on June 21, 2019, 12:58:25 am
Yes, I think both of those would be acceptable.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: Scotaidh on June 22, 2019, 04:04:53 am
Hmmm - I think I've just been given the green light on a long-wanted project.  :)  I'll say only that the base kit will be a Whirlwind.  :)

Oh, well - never mind.  Having re-read the rules, my idea doesn't fit.  :p 
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: sandiego89 on June 22, 2019, 07:45:52 am

..... rather than American ones in Tehran, leading to a C-160 Transall being modified with Credible Chase-style gear?

I believe you mean “Credible Sport”.
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: TheChronicOne on June 22, 2019, 07:54:54 am
This may help the distinction a bit... those actually would be more "motor" than "engine" anyway, yeah? Case closed. *Bangs Gavel*  ;D   ;) ;D
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: Weaver on June 22, 2019, 12:10:34 pm

..... rather than American ones in Tehran, leading to a C-160 Transall being modified with Credible Chase-style gear?

I believe you mean “Credible Sport”.

Yes, quite right. Thanks.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: joncarrfarrelly on June 22, 2019, 04:33:03 pm
Single or tri-motor Boeing 247
twin-engined Gee Bee 🤣
tri or quad-engined Skyvan/330/360
tri-motor Catalina
twin-engined Do 24
(wing swap between the two?)

Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: zenrat on June 22, 2019, 06:03:24 pm
Just concentrating on the Less aspect;
Single engine Gosling.
Three engine FW Condor light.
Twin engine Lanc done.  ;)  (https://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php?topic=43704.msg776327#msg776327)
U2 zero emission passive recconaisance glider.
Assymetric single engine Bf110.
Single boom, single engined fighter based on P38 parts.
Single engine Do 335 (front or rear - your choice).
Any car converted to horse drawn.
Mk IV tank converted to "prisoners in a treadmill" power.
Trireme Battleship (HMS Hood with three banks of oars for example).
Sloop rigged MTB.
Unpowered Boomer towed into action by a school of trained tuna...

Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: Old Wombat on June 22, 2019, 07:06:46 pm
Any car converted to horse drawn.
Mk IV tank converted to "prisoners in a treadmill" power.
Trireme Battleship (HMS Hood with three banks of oars for example).
Sloop rigged MTB.

These all seem to be "alternate engines" proposals. However, a standard single-engined car could have 2 horses, the Mk.IV would need at least 2 treadmills to replace its single engine, as Hood had 4 shafts & 4 geared steam turbines that could work (3 "engines" instead of 4), the MTB works if there aren't 3 masts.
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: Tophe on June 22, 2019, 07:13:20 pm
Assymetric single engine Bf110.
Single boom, single engined fighter based on P38 parts.
The single-engined asymmetric Bf-110 has been built by me in 2013 at https://www.whatifmodellers.com//index.php/topic,36846.0.html
Several single-boom single-engined P-38 piloted planes are on my site http://www.kristofmeunier.fr/#Sit like the one below center:
(http://www.kristofmeunier.fr/P38_6a.JPG)
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: zenrat on June 22, 2019, 09:47:23 pm
Any car converted to horse drawn.
Mk IV tank converted to "prisoners in a treadmill" power.
Trireme Battleship (HMS Hood with three banks of oars for example).
Sloop rigged MTB.

These all seem to be "alternate engines" proposals. However, a standard single-engined car could have 2 horses, the Mk.IV would need at least 2 treadmills to replace its single engine, as Hood had 4 shafts & 4 geared steam turbines that could work (3 "engines" instead of 4), the MTB works if there aren't 3 masts.

My thinking was that horses, people and sails are not engines and so all of those examples were zero engine vehicles powered by renewable resources.
But if one accepts your thinking (which I don't) then shirley one horse = one horse power so, as long as a car that had a 300 hp engine had more or less than 300 horses attached to it then it is acceptable.
If we accept your one engine = one horse argument then in the case of the Mk IV can we say one engine = one prisoner?  In which case a single treadmill with more two or more prisoners/deserters/volunteers walking  would suffice.
What is your proposed Tuna to Reactor ratio?

Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: Weaver on June 22, 2019, 09:54:15 pm
Just concentrating on the Less aspect;

Sloop rigged MTB.


Wouldn't that be an STB?
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: 63cpe on June 23, 2019, 12:38:30 am
Is it allowed by the jury, board and committee to cast the first (resin) parts before july 1st?

David aka 63cpe
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: PR19_Kit on June 23, 2019, 05:42:16 am

Is it allowed by the jury, board and committee to cast the first (resin) parts before july 1st?

David aka 63cpe


We think that's OK, on the grounds that you could have gone out and bought a resin part for the job. It's your fault that no-one supplying it.  ;D
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: 63cpe on June 23, 2019, 07:23:50 am
Ah, Ok .. thank you for your kind understanding.  :thumbsup:

Will put some effort in making my life easier and use readily available resin parts in stead.  :wacko:
But, but, but.....the part I'm planning to use (resin casted) are much uglier than the ones readily available....

David aka 63cpe
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: PR19_Kit on June 23, 2019, 07:31:44 am
Ugliness, or otherwise, is not a factor that's important in the Whiffness of any entrant.  ;D ;)
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: TheChronicOne on June 23, 2019, 07:46:07 am
Ugliness, or otherwise, is not a factor that's important in the Whiffness of any entrant.  ;D ;)

 ;D ;D


And thanks goodness for that!!  :wacko: :angel:
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: 63cpe on June 23, 2019, 08:53:06 am
Quote
We think that's OK, on the grounds that you could have gone out and bought a resin part for the job. It's your fault that no-one supplying it.  ;D

OK, just got started poouring the first copy. Three to go...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48114594637_d7b75e163a_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2giHSGv)IMG_20190623_172816967 (https://flic.kr/p/2giHSGv) by Buddy Holly (https://www.flickr.com/photos/jetsonsspecial/), on Flickr

David aka 63cpe
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: PR19_Kit on June 23, 2019, 09:42:02 am
Very intriguing............
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: 63cpe on June 23, 2019, 10:13:21 am
.........and pop says the first copies:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48114934376_a9a60147cc_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2giKBG5)IMG_20190623_190012830 (https://flic.kr/p/2giKBG5) by Buddy Holly (https://www.flickr.com/photos/jetsonsspecial/), on Flickr

Somehow I always manage to be out of jetengines faces and exhausts, so made a master of some so i can copy them over and over again.  :thumbsup: <_<

The big lump of engine is from an Aero A-100 and I need some of them for my project in the More or Less engines GB. I'll me more than it used to be...

David aka 63cpe
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: zenrat on June 24, 2019, 02:50:35 am
Ugliness, or otherwise, is not a factor that's important in the Whiffness of any entrant.  ;D ;)

Not in the whiffness, no.  But it is an important factor nevertheless.
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: 63cpe on June 29, 2019, 07:10:02 am
Still some questions to understand the rules:

1) Is it allowed by the jury, board and committee to use an old build model which will be taken apart and reassembled totally different then before to meet the GB requirements?

2) Is it allowed to build an aircraft which is entirely new from parts of existing models? I mean; rules of the GB could be understood that only a conversion of an existing model is eligible.
An new and entirely different aircraft (kitbash whif build from parts of two or three different models) was just not known before and could have had any engine arrangement as it was not existing. Therefor it might get unclear what the engine arrangement was and how it got whiffed by re arranging the engines, Risk is to get disqualified for the GB.

David aka 63cpe
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: PR19_Kit on June 29, 2019, 12:37:59 pm
Hm, could you make that MORE complicated please, it won't be much of a mental trial for us as it is..............  ;D ;)

The mods will mod and get back to you in that...............eventually.  :o
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: 63cpe on June 29, 2019, 11:12:22 pm
Sorry for causing headaches. I guess i'll proceed with it anyway. And see if it eligeable or not.

 Thanks,

David Ajax 63cpe


Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: PR19_Kit on June 30, 2019, 04:05:44 am
We've done our moderating thing and decided you're OK to go with this so long as :-

a) You don't start re-assembling the bits until July 1st and

b) No one kit can constitute more than 25% of the resulting build.
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: 63cpe on June 30, 2019, 02:06:29 pm
 :thumbsup: okidoki!

Thanks you for doing you moderator thing! ;D

David als 63cpe
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: Supertom on July 03, 2019, 10:15:48 am
I can't remember if this was discussed, but on the topic of re-engining, would converting something from Alison T56 engines to RR AE2100 (that's not a C-130) apply? It's a whatif, I promise.
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: TheChronicOne on July 03, 2019, 10:21:37 am
Converting is fine, you just have to change the overall number of engines. If the original aircraft has four engines, in order to qualify for the GB, it will now need to have 3 or 5 (or 1, 2, 7, 54, etc, just not 4 like the original.)  :thumbsup:

It's not the type of engines, it's the number that counts.  ;D   (pun intended)
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: PR19_Kit on July 03, 2019, 02:51:57 pm

Converting is fine, you just have to change the overall number of engines. If the original aircraft has four engines, in order to qualify for the GB, it will now need to have 3 or 5 (or 1, 2, 7, 54, etc, just not 4 like the original.)  :thumbsup:

It's not the type of engines, it's the number that counts.  ;D   (pun intended)


Well at least SOMEone has figured out what it's all about!  :thumbsup:

And even zero engines would be fine, so long as the original design had one or more.
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: Rheged on July 03, 2019, 02:58:03 pm
Converting is fine, you just have to change the overall number of engines. If the original aircraft has four engines, in order to qualify for the GB, it will now need to have 3 or 5 (or 1, 2, 7, 54, etc, just not 4 like the original.)  :thumbsup:

It's not the type of engines, it's the number that counts.  ;D   (pun intended)

A most succinct and appropriate definition!!  I'm rather hoping that someone will take up your suggestion of 54 engines, I'm assuming VTOL with lots of lift cells.................... but it might be something else entirely.
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: TheChronicOne on July 03, 2019, 03:28:21 pm
The minds boggles at either......... 54... or ZERO.  I find that fascinating; I'd like to see someone totally remove the engines from something....
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: joncarrfarrelly on July 03, 2019, 03:55:34 pm
Dornier Do X with 54 Genet Major 1A (Civet I) @ 145hp each. ;D

Or perhaps 66 Pobjoy Niagara.  :wacko:
The grilled version of course.

(https://gallery.vtol.org/images/2019/02/14/Niagara-I.md.jpg)
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: joncarrfarrelly on July 03, 2019, 04:44:02 pm
The minds boggles at either......... 54... or ZERO.  I find that fascinating; I'd like to see someone totally remove the engines from something....

You mean like the XCG-17?   ;D

(http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii120/Duggy009/Duggy009-2/Douglas%20XCG-17/Douglas-XCG-17-4.jpg)
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: kitnut617 on July 03, 2019, 05:15:39 pm
The minds boggles at either......... 54... or ZERO.  I find that fascinating; I'd like to see someone totally remove the engines from something....

You mean like the XCG-17?   ;D

(http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii120/Duggy009/Duggy009-2/Douglas%20XCG-17/Douglas-XCG-17-4.jpg)

And Aircraft in Miniature does a 1/72 scale conversion for that ---

https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/TWC72016
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: TheChronicOne on July 03, 2019, 06:49:47 pm
 :o :wub: :wub: :wub:

Now that is cool!

It would be pretty neat to model.  :mellow:   

Ground crews probably drew nipples and stuff on that one....   ;D
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: PR19_Kit on July 03, 2019, 11:41:16 pm

The minds boggles at either......... 54... or ZERO.  I find that fascinating; I'd like to see someone totally remove the engines from something....


Chase and Fairchild did it the other way round, by starting with a glider, the XG-20 and adding engines to eventually make it the C-123 Provider.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/2079/0pCtT6.jpg)


En route they added MORE engines, jets this time, and made the XC-123!

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img921/5148/kmdATG.jpg)

Of course none of them are any good for this GB as they've already been done in the RW.
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: loupgarou on July 04, 2019, 12:34:20 am
Yes, one could add engines to an Horsa. I think it HAD been done to the Hamilcar.
BTW, in the USA, Piper Cubs and other lightplanes had been deengined as primary trainers in WW2.
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: TheChronicOne on July 04, 2019, 06:13:14 am
I'll be!! I had no idea the Provider was a Glider. lol   I've looked at other gliders before and thought, "why not slap some engines on that one... it would be natural... " so I guess it stands to reason actual engineers did the same thing. I just never made the connection, that's a new one on me.

The c-123 in 1/72 happens to be THE last aircraft I need to find to make a complete collection for my USAF Thunderbirds "project." I wish they weren't so expensive.
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: Old Wombat on July 04, 2019, 08:24:58 am
Chase and Fairchild did it the other way round, by starting with a glider, the XG-20 and adding engines to eventually make it the C-123 Provider.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/2079/0pCtT6.jpg)


En route they added MORE engines, jets this time, and made the XC-123!

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img921/5148/kmdATG.jpg)

That's a diorama concept, right there! XC-123A towing a XG-20 as a modern C-47/Horsa equivalent. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: joncarrfarrelly on July 04, 2019, 10:48:13 am
XCG-20 #1 became the XC-123 with two R-2800 which led to the production C-123B.
XCG-20 #2 became the XC-123A with the four J47 engines.

Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: kitbasher on September 09, 2019, 01:13:13 pm
Right.  I'm plucking up the courage to ask - when will be OK to ask That Question?  You know, the one we all want to ask around now but are a bit scared to do so. 
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: PR19_Kit on September 09, 2019, 04:20:26 pm
It's a bit early yet, maybe in a couple of weeks.
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: Dizzyfugu on September 10, 2019, 12:46:10 am
It's all about Rule #6...
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: zenrat on September 10, 2019, 03:49:16 am
It's all about Rule #6...

Right gents here's the rules.

Chris...

...6. Have FUN...

It certainly is.
 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: kitbasher on September 19, 2019, 12:53:52 pm
Right.  I'm plucking up the courage to ask - when will be OK to ask That Question?  You know, the one we all want to ask around now but are a bit scared to do so.

So is it OK now to ask That Question?  You know, the one we all want to ask but might not be as scared to ask as we were a couple of weeks ago.
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: PR19_Kit on September 19, 2019, 01:59:01 pm
Right.  I'm plucking up the courage to ask - when will be OK to ask That Question?  You know, the one we all want to ask around now but are a bit scared to do so.

So is it OK now to ask That Question?  You know, the one we all want to ask but might not be as scared to ask as we were a couple of weeks ago.


 ;D Yes, I guess it's probably OK to ask THAT question now.

But we, the mods, may not choose to answer it right away of course..............  ;) :-\
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: kitbasher on September 19, 2019, 02:52:06 pm
Sooo.....

Is a bijou extensionette possible? Just a tiny one.

One in keeping with previous GBs of course.

Say a week?  Maybe two?

We all love you Mods, by the way.
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: rickshaw on September 19, 2019, 06:01:16 pm
You say that but how do we know it?

You can leave your demonstration of your love in unmarked, small denomination bills in a plain brown paper bag on the front door step, OK?

Then we might consider your request...   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: PR19_Kit on September 20, 2019, 04:29:53 am

You say that but how do we know it?

You can leave your demonstration of your love in unmarked, small denomination bills in a plain brown paper bag on the front door step, OK?

Then we might consider your request...   :thumbsup:


We mods truly speak with one voice on this subject, especially the bit about 'demonstrations'...............
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: zenrat on September 20, 2019, 04:54:46 am
Do I have to remind you two gentlemen that I still have the negatives*?

 ;)

I'm going to need a couple more weeks to get the ute finished.


*for younger readers negatives are what you used to lose in the old days before you could accidentally delete a file.
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: TheChronicOne on September 20, 2019, 09:18:32 am
Do I have to remind you two gentlemen that I still have the negatives*?

 ;)

I'm going to need a couple more weeks to get the ute finished.


*for younger readers negatives are what you used to lose in the old days before you could accidentally delete a file.

"What is a .... UTE?"    ;D
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: PR19_Kit on September 20, 2019, 10:07:58 am

Do I have to remind you two gentlemen that I still have the negatives*?

 ;)


Oh, no you haven't!  ;D

You should have checked them recently, Brian 'may' have subcontracted some Victorians to expose them to the light.

But then again, he may not have...............  ;)
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: kitbasher on September 20, 2019, 01:59:39 pm

Do I have to remind you two gentlemen that I still have the negatives*?

 ;)


Oh, no you haven't!  ;D

You should have checked them recently, Brian 'may' have subcontracted some Victorians to expose them to the light.

But then again, he may not have...............  ;)

Or as said in Blackadder II when blackmailing the Bishop of Bath and Wells, ‘we have the preliminary sketches’  ;D
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: NARSES2 on September 21, 2019, 02:27:36 am

You should have checked them recently, Brian 'may' have subcontracted some Victorians to expose them to the light.

But then again, he may not have...............  ;)

But negatives weren't affected by light ? The undeveloped film was, but once developed it was ok. You needed to treat it with a fair bit of respect, but it was ok  ;)
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: kitbasher on September 21, 2019, 02:49:23 am

You should have checked them recently, Brian 'may' have subcontracted some Victorians to expose them to the light.

But then again, he may not have...............  ;)

But negatives weren't affected by light ? The undeveloped film was, but once developed it was ok. You needed to treat it with a fair bit of respect, but it was ok  ;)

Hah! Sort the dirt can still be ditched  :wacko:

Not that there is any, of course.  The Mods are saintly paragons of virtue.
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: rickshaw on September 21, 2019, 03:47:36 am
Do I have to remind you two gentlemen that I still have the negatives*?

 ;)

I'm going to need a couple more weeks to get the ute finished.


*for younger readers negatives are what you used to lose in the old days before you could accidentally delete a file.

Negatives?  Negatives?  You mean like these ones I hold in my hand at the present moment, Fred?  Tsk, tsk, you mean the ones which are going up in smoke as I type this message?  What a shame, hey?   :wacko: :wacko:
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: kitbasher on September 21, 2019, 05:00:51 am
Do I have to remind you two gentlemen that I still have the negatives*?

 ;)

I'm going to need a couple more weeks to get the ute finished.


*for younger readers negatives are what you used to lose in the old days before you could accidentally delete a file.

Negatives?  Negatives?  You mean like these ones I hold in my hand at the present moment, Fred?  Tsk, tsk, you mean the ones which are going up in smoke as I type this message?  What a shame, hey?   :wacko: :wacko:

Yes but you don’t have the contact prints!
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: PR19_Kit on September 21, 2019, 10:56:51 am
Do I have to remind you two gentlemen that I still have the negatives*?

 ;)

I'm going to need a couple more weeks to get the ute finished.


*for younger readers negatives are what you used to lose in the old days before you could accidentally delete a file.

Negatives?  Negatives?  You mean like these ones I hold in my hand at the present moment, Fred?  Tsk, tsk, you mean the ones which are going up in smoke as I type this message?  What a shame, hey?   :wacko: :wacko:

Yes but you don’t have the contact prints!


And you're the one who wants the extension?     ;)
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: kitbasher on September 21, 2019, 11:31:51 am
May I refer my learned Moderator to the final sentence of reply #79. 

Said contact prints include images of the Mods helping the aged, the infirm, the poor, the needy, the homeless, smiling at children and handing out fluffy kittens.
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: zenrat on September 21, 2019, 06:21:26 pm
Do I have to remind you two gentlemen that I still have the negatives*?

 ;)

I'm going to need a couple more weeks to get the ute finished.


*for younger readers negatives are what you used to lose in the old days before you could accidentally delete a file.

"What is a .... UTE?"    ;D

Car based pickup.  El Camino, Ranchero, Brat for example.  Short for Utility.

May I refer my learned Moderator to the final sentence of reply #79. 

Said contact prints include images of the Mods helping the aged, the infirm, the poor, the needy, the homeless, smiling at children and handing out fluffy kittens.

I'd definitely want those destroyed.  I have a reputation to live down to.

Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: TheChronicOne on September 21, 2019, 07:14:38 pm
Hahaha!! It's a movie quote. I guess it's more known here in the states, I didn't consider that. From "My Cousin Vinny."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7BMCZdXSlk

Such a good movie.  :lol:
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: NARSES2 on September 22, 2019, 01:09:36 am
It's not so much the negatives but who's got the original glass plates ?  ;)
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: zenrat on September 22, 2019, 03:51:59 am
Hahaha!! It's a movie quote. I guess it's more known here in the states, I didn't consider that. From "My Cousin Vinny."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7BMCZdXSlk

Such a good movie.  :lol:

Seen it, but not recently.  I'll have to rewatch it.
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: Old Wombat on September 22, 2019, 04:50:38 am
It's not so much the negatives but who's got the original glass plates ?  ;)

 ;D ;D ;D :wacko:
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: PR19_Kit on September 22, 2019, 06:07:49 am
The moderators have met in plenary session (even though we're 12000 miles apart, the travel expenses claim is already filed...) and have decided, MUCH against our better judgment, that we'll grant a two week extension to this Group Build.

That means the GB will now end at 2359 hrs local time (wherever you happen to be) on October 14th 2019.

This will no doubt trigger a rush on westward bound airline flights as the REALLY slow builders (which includes me....) try and maximise the amount of available build time.  ;)

[Date fixed now]
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: kitbasher on September 22, 2019, 10:19:29 am
The moderators have met in plenary session (even though we're 12000 miles apart, the travel expenses claim is already filed...) and have decided, MUCH against our better judgment, that we'll grant a two week extension to this Group Build.

That means the GB will now end at 2359 hrs local time (wherever you happen to be) on September 14th 2019.

This will no doubt trigger a rush on westward bound airline flights as the REALLY slow builders (which includes me....) try and maximise the amount of available build time.  ;)

OKaaaay.....so the engines GB is now the time travel GB :o?

We’ll assume you mean 14 October.  And thanks, Mods.
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: Old Wombat on September 22, 2019, 10:49:56 am
I was going to say something but, as I had a similar Alzheimer's moment some weeks ago with the extension end date of a GB I was (am) moderating, thought better of it.
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: PR19_Kit on September 22, 2019, 12:32:14 pm
The moderators have met in plenary session (even though we're 12000 miles apart, the travel expenses claim is already filed...) and have decided, MUCH against our better judgment, that we'll grant a two week extension to this Group Build.

That means the GB will now end at 2359 hrs local time (wherever you happen to be) on September 14th 2019.

This will no doubt trigger a rush on westward bound airline flights as the REALLY slow builders (which includes me....) try and maximise the amount of available build time.  ;)

OKaaaay.....so the engines GB is now the time travel GB :o?

We’ll assume you mean 14 October.  And thanks, Mods.


As I'm trying to get this BLOODY Win 10 machine running properly at the same time as arranging extensions and things, you're lucky that's the ONLY problem that's occurred!  :banghead:
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: zenrat on September 23, 2019, 05:15:29 am
Thanks guys.
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: NARSES2 on September 23, 2019, 07:10:49 am
Thanks lads  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: PR19_Kit on September 23, 2019, 07:11:32 am
We aim to please, sometimes anyway...…………  ;) ;D
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: Dizzyfugu on September 24, 2019, 12:29:47 am
Oh, with that extension I might start another submission.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: joncarrfarrelly on September 24, 2019, 09:46:37 am
Oh, with that extension I might start another submission.  :rolleyes:

... or three.  ;D :wacko:
Title: Re: The Engines - More or Less GB :The Rules
Post by: PR19_Kit on October 13, 2019, 06:28:38 am
Less than 24 hrs to run for those of us in the Antipodes.